CFH - Scotland did a tour to Fiji a couple of years ago which went down really well and was good development for both sides.
Indeed. Seeing some comments from Samoans about the Welsh trip just now that say the same. Gone down really well with the locals, and great development for a young(ish) touring side.
Just watched the lions game - even worse than I thought from the bits I had read.
I am very confused - why were the lions not contesting the breakdown? why did Murray keep kicking away good ball even turnover ball? I assume under instruction????? they did start to contest the breakdown a bit in the last 20 mins but until then just gave the ABs clean ball on a plate - but in the chiefs game they slowed and spoilt the ball all game.
Loopy Liam the only good thing from the lions - looked dangerous indeed and Hogg would have found it hard to oust him. Still a git tho 😉
AWJ was a complete waste of space. Itoje looked much better when he came on. AWJ was wandering back into the defensive line after a tackle not running back into position so wasn't in the game hardly at all.
Nothing creative in the backs at all - just conventional passes with the odd inside ball. Farrell back to his old self not the player I saw in the warm ups. Not one chip over the top to keep 'em honest, not one runaround / loop. Nothing creative at all from 9-13. Murray looked slow and hesitant - was it because he had no one to pass to?
Itoje, Webb to start next week. Loopy liam the only lion who matched his opposite number
Agreed. Why give the most dangerous attacking players in the world the ball back? My only view on that is that they were hoping for a dropped ball.
And the backs... id hoped the watmups were hiding some magic. But no. Teo should hsve stayed on, and clearly the AB's were targetting Farrell, he was smashed several times.
Of course you target Farrell - its the obvious move. a) sometimes he gets rattled and loses his cool ( he didn't this time) and b) you force him to lie deeper
Having said that I didn't think they did really.
Talking of creativity - Russell on the bench for the dirttrackers gain 🙄
even THM
"Even" ??
Happy for you to leave me out of any further silliness, thank you. Keep it between yourselves.
I am very confused - why were the lions not contesting the breakdown? why did Murray keep kicking away good ball even turnover ball?
The defensive system is strong when there are numbers coming out of the line fast and stopping the ball from spreading. A lot of the pre game hype was about NZ's width and crossfield kicks. NZ read that perfectly and kept it tight most of the time and ran inside shoulders. Once they got over the gain line a few times the defence is scrambling and even harder to compete. Definite game plan from the Lions but slow to adjust/ overwhelmed by the might of NZ's execution
AWJ was a complete waste of space. Itoje looked much better when he came on. AWJ was wandering back into the defensive line after a tackle not running back into position so wasn't in the game hardly at all.
I wouldn't have any objection to Itoje starting but both locks had to get through a sh1t ton of work on the back foot for almost all the game due to the lack of control elsewhere. Symptom of the game not a fault IMO, bit like Kruis and his errors
Nothing creative in the backs at all - just conventional passes with the odd inside ball. Farrell back to his old self not the player I saw in the warm ups. Not one chip over the top to keep 'em honest, not one runaround / loop.
You've just described Sexton. Not how Farrell generally plays
Nothing creative at all from 9-13. Murray looked slow and hesitant - was it because he had no one to pass to?
Hard to be creative when you have no ball. Bigger problem is having the territory and possession to be in the game before the flash stuff. The try was pretty damn good though. Murray's kicking was to plan as he gives an excellent escape option and in the NH you generally have a bit of kicking ping pong after the box kick which ends up with you gaining territory. NZ just kept the ball instead and played in a very un-NH way (unsurprisingly with hindsight I guess). Farrell at 10 would only try to put in the same kick as Murray so why not just get Murray to do it would have been the logic. I'd like to see Sexton at 10 for exactly the reasons you mentioned about keeping the defence honest and guessing
So that was the plan? don't contest the breakdown so you can fan out in defence? Crap gameplan if all it means is NZ get the ball on a plate
IMO two 7s are needed to disrupt the breakdown and slow their ball
AWJ ws just off the pace all game I thought.
I wish more top teams would go to Fiji to play them.
See also Samoa and Tonga.
Indeed the stadium for thecwales samoa game was absolutely jumping was awesome.
I am very confused - why were the lions not contesting the breakdown?
Because Pyper was the ref. DanW you are wasting your time trying explain anything to them. Obviously its all Gatlands fault!
Nice to see the usual having a go at the 10 when its the pack that has been rinsed though, thats aleays a favourite of mine.
Because Pyper was the ref they didn't contest the breakdown? How do you figure that?
Dans explanation actually made a bit of sense and answered my question. Not a tactic I agree with but I can understand it
Because Pyper was the ref they didn't contest the breakdown? How do you figure that?
Pyper is like a lot/most refs the last year or two so very very reluctant to give pens for the jackle, that said POM and his magical elbows were very conspicuous by their absence on saturday. Warburton was certainly giving it a go when he came on but I suppose he had the benefit of watching for the first 50mins.
That's a very good point a_a on the jackle. It has disappeared so much with the way the game is generally refereed now that I didn't even think about it! Anyway, the fanning out is quite a SH style of defence and NZ nailed how to counter it with playing straight off the excellent 9.
In many ways the Lions out thought themselves with the strategy trying to second guess too many things when really I think the best chance is to play really tight, controlled rugby like the previous few games. Easier said than done against the AB's! Trying to play like them however and getting sucked in to their game like happened a bit in the first Test has to be the worst things to do!
Nice to see the usual having a go at the 10 when its the pack that has been rinsed though, thats aleays a favourite of mine.
Not sure if that was aimed at me but I totally agree. If, *big if* the pack actually gets on top in the next Tests then I'd still prefer Sexton in for Farrell. Like I've said before Murray and Farrell are too similar as a pair, much like I think Sexton and Webb are too similar at the other end of the scale. Murray/ Sexton is nicely balanced. But yes, all irrelevant if they are not in the game again with the piggies getting smashed
Aye - differnt refs do penalise differntly for the jackel but many / most seem to still give pens or allow turnovers. Scotland still set up to play this way and it often works well.
anyway - the explanation was helpful.
If, *big if* the pack actually gets on top in the next Tests
The problem is that was the Lions scrummaging front row as opposed to their "dynamic" front row. And the scrums were probably shaded by the AB's, who were also better in the loose with the exception of V-P. Changing them out will probably leave the Lions with even less of a platform, especially bearing in mind Dane Coles will be back.
This is quite funny...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40401731
You'd be pretty surprised to end up being offered a room by an all blacks mum!
I'd give Finn Russell a place on the bench. Creative and a good enough kicker to keep the ball in the right places.
That BBC story say's "he works in IT and lives in London" i wonder if has an expensive bike and it on here?
tiggs. Problem is he needs familiar players around him and a game plan built to suit him
Nice to see the usual having a go at the 10 when its the pack that has been rinsed though
Only just caught up with the highlights last night, but while the pack needs strengthening, Farrell was also average to poor. Missed the conversion, missed a few tackles, and due to lack of confidence it meant that the Lions instead of kicking at goal at 50 odd minutes, went for the line out to no avail.
For me I'd start with Sexton as the 10 next match. Keep the rest of the backs as they started on Saturday (albeit keep Te'o on as long as possible). Pack wise hard to know how to change it up for the positives, Warbs might help slow ball down. But tricky to get the right balance in the pack.
The pack is a bit of a worry - this was supposed to be the pack to dominate proceedings as they had in the warm up games. It didn't work though but some of the players seemed to have a really bad day - Kruis and AWJ were so far off their best and were dominated by their counterparts.
No 10 is going to look good when their pack is getting munched.
Hansen has fired a few barbs re Gatland's comments about the AB charge down tactics.
No 10 is going to look good when their pack is getting munched.
I think that applies more to a 9 than 10. If you can't kick your goals and you fall off tackles that is your fault no one else.
Kruis and AWJ were so far off their best and were dominated by their counterparts.
Agree with that, and wouldn't be surprised if both were replaced for next Saturday.
Just as a general point I thought it was a great game of rugby and the Lions didn't do too badly all things considered. Far more competitive than 12 years ago.
BB bought his kicking boots last week which was a bit of a surprise given his reputation for being a bit flaky off the kicking tee.
Farrell does seem to miss at least a kick per game which is interesting as that was one of his biggest strengths. I wouldn't be surprised if him and Sexton swapped places for the next test and playing both at the same time didn't seem to work.
Farrells kicking has not been that good ever IIRC lowest % of any of the 6N kickers
and playing both at the same time didn't seem to work.
Who was surprised by that? Sonny Bill Williams is a monster and neither of those is capable of going head to head with him, you need a proper destructive inside centre to stop him. A role in which I thought Ben Te'o did very well. (Shame Scott Gibbs is a bit too old for a call up 😉 )
Ahem. Dunbar. Oh no - silly me. He is at home resting up for the new season.
He's an outside centre isn't he?
Who was surprised by that?
Gatland? I don't think many of the supporters thought that combo would work in the tests did they?
Te'o may not have been a popular call up, but he's done pretty well so far and was OK defensively against the AB centers.
dragon - plays either but mainly 13 you are right. Only a cheeky throwaway comment really but at 17 stone he would hopefully be able to stop SBW ( unless Hanson spotted the defensive alignment flaw / the defensive lesson was not learnt from the England game in the 6N)
The big tic tackical change was the all blacks kicking less than normal, they usually kick a lot but on saturday played keep ball. Not sure if this was as planned or a reaction to their forwards getting over the gainline so easily due to the smart us of inside balls off 9 and offloading.
Hansen has fired a few barbs re Gatland's comments about the AB charge down tactics.
They learnt that from the dirty scots, see Scottish rugby true world leaders!!
Footage of Kaino on Murrey here
AA - we learnt it from the oirish!
Who'd have thought NZ would deliberately target breaking a key Irish player, it's not like they have form or anything. 🙄
Farrells kicking has not been that good ever IIRC lowest % of any of the 6N kickers
True, he had a poor % in the 6N this season, but overall his kicking record is prety darn good for Eng/Lions/Saracens. I think I posted the comparative records in this thread at some point.
He's also the sort of kicker you'd trust to get that last minute winning kick - like Wilkinson.
true namastebuzz. Whereas if it was Russell despite his high % recently you would be hiding behind the sofa peeking thru your fingers
Just watched the first Test again and NZ, particularly the front 5, were brutal. Lots of off the ball, lots of high or very very borderline tackles, some pretty hefty tackles off the ball and blocking... I think their street smarts was another thing that threw the Lions. I'm not so delusional to think our boys are angels but they had a going over. AWJ took a hefty knock to the head early on too which must have made the rest of the game a bit of a blur
I think it was Greenwood that said a few years ago that what people don't realise about a lot of the NZ legends is they are not only phenomenal rugby players but have a genuine streak of nastiness on the pitch. Pretty sure his example at the time was Nonu, saying he couldn't think of any other centre anywhere else so feared to line up against, but also so skillful and so nice off the pitch. Now, where did our mercenary centre leave that arm guard? 😀
Everyone knows NZ are dirty ****eys especially at home, so no Lion should be surprised. Its how you combat it that's the problem especially as the refs have a bias towards NZ at home. Probably the only way is to meet fire with fire, that big hit by Ben Te'o on Sonny Bill needs to happen more often. Plus the Lions need to try and isolate the NZ 9 and 10 and hit them hard, maybe 😉
Given what they did to Ireland in the second test in November I would love to see the Lions really go out to beat them up legally.
Everyone knows NZ are dirty ****eys especially at home
Don't get me wrong, this isn't news to me, but they were really going at it that first Test. A lot was obvious watching first time but there was probably 4 times as much that jumped out watching it again!
Lions V Hurricanes turning into a good game. Lions with a try made in Scotland. Frodo and Tennessee Tam !
Superb half from the Lions. Kept Aso completely out of the game. Thought Nowell was good at fullback, but that didn't last long.
Reckon Lions have got this.
Thought you'd like that TJ!
Biggar close to pissing the ref off though at the end of the first half screaming at him for a scrum. Needs to be careful because they've had the run of the green so far.
Better physicality from the Lions today; Nowell has been busy, Henderson with a lovely offload, North actually getting involved now he's in the centres (although he's struggling a tad defensively but that's to be understood), Laidlaw has been pretty sharp too.
Lions with a try made in Scotland and Texas.
Tennessee IIRC AA. Hence Tennessee Tam. Born in Nashville.
