[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

But who do northern irish athletes run for?

We can choose Ireland or GB. In the case of Bethany Firth the swimmer she has represented both

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_Firth

I suspect it's going to be one of those things where the English fans are fine with it while Scottish and Welsh fans are pissed off.

Like any other sport where there's a GB team involved then? 😉

Except tennis obviously. Somebody pointed out that Dunblane could probably win the Davis Cup on its own.

Are you supporting the Lions Bruce? Not having (much of) a dig but I know a few Scottish fans who weren't supporting the Lions seeing as only 2 Scots were initially picked. I'm not sure if their allegiance has changed now there are 3 or if, in fact, there is a minimum cut-off point required in terms of Scottish squad members for all Scots to be supporting the Lions.

This more or less sums up how I feel about the Lions:

http://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2017/04/scotlands-lost-lions-generation/

I do think he lets Gatland off too lightly. Gatland despises the Scots. You can tell from every interview he's ever given that he's insulted that his players are being forced to share the pitch with such a bunch of ****ing losers. With Gatland in charge there was never a chance of any 50/50 calls going our way.

So no, I won't be supporting the Lions.

Loving this tweet from the barbars

The squad train for first time tomorrow
Time to dust off those play books we don't have

The Baas twitter feed is one of the best out there!

namastebuzz - Member

England have been very consistent this year and have been the only team to regularly beat SA. Although they would supply the largest quota, Scotland and Wales have both shown enough to be represented in more than just name alone.

Errrmmm - who has won the last two London titles? Who were their opponents this year?

Get it right up ye 🙂

Having said that scotland have struggled with 7s over the years. A drain on funds for scant reward over the years and we don't have that many good players to split our resources.

I never want to see another GB rugby team other than the lions - and for reasons above its hard for me to get interested and behind the lions. It doesn't feel like my team

Get it right up ye

Indeed. You did just that at Twickers this year and in the quarter finals last year as well as being our bogey team in other tournaments this year.

That doesn't change the fact that England have developed an extremely good 7s side who've been better than everybody else except the Blitzbokke. If we want to succeed at the Olympics then a permamnent GB team is the most likely way.

On the Scots not supporting the Lions issue TJ - how many of your boys would need to be in the squad/test team for you to consider it "your" team?

I'm not sure if it's necessarily a question of numbers, it's more that they are coached by a scumbag who detests our country and only knows the name of one of our players.

So yeah, get a new coach and then we can think about it.

A very youthful looking England team to face the Baa Baas this weekend. And Robshaw is back, but with Ford at 10 and only Brown with caps in the backs, i'd be worried about that backline.

So yeah, get a new coach and then we can think about it.

OK so if Gatland had picked 15 Scots in the tour party you STILL wouldn't be supporting the Lions?

Whereas if Schmidt or Jones was coaching and they didn't pick ANY Scots you'd still be supporting them?

🙄

In fairness with lions, Exeter, Saracens and the injuries there aren't many players left to represent England.
Meaningless game anyway, although it it rains I'll watch it!

OK so if Gatland had picked 15 Scots in the tour party you STILL wouldn't be supporting the Lions?

Whereas if Schmidt or Jones was coaching and they didn't pick ANY Scots you'd still be supporting them?

Your hypotheticals are getting a bit weird and nonsensical. You seem to have a problem with Scots not being happy with the Lions and not wanting to support them. Why is that?

You seem to have a problem with Scots not being happy with the Lions and not wanting to support them. Why is that?

Seems clear to me its your irrational hatred of Gatland he has the problem with.

You seem to have a problem with Scots not being happy with the Lions and not wanting to support them.

I don't have a problem with it. I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it. Living amongst the Scots, as I do, I enjoy delving into their national psyche.

I must admit, I read that article you linked to and what you've said about Gatland but I can't say I've ever noticed any anti-Scottish sentiment on his part.

I've noticed a touch of paranoia from other quarters however...... 😉

Good to see Micky SB still doling out the Barbarians ties at 90 odd.

Seems clear to me its your irrational hatred of Gatland he has the problem with.

Hate's a strong word. I prefer despise. And if you've got a problem with people who despise Gatland then that's an awful lot of people to have a problem with.

Gatland is a one dimensional coach as far as the northern hemisphere skill set is concerned.

Now most of the credible strong men outside of 4&5 arent available, hes left with Wales and Farrell jnr vs Ab's and we all know how that story will go.

Im not looking foward to the tour tbh, it has the smell of another NH whipping by the time the clubs have had a go.

Hate's a strong word. I prefer despise.

Same same, but different.

Anyway, getting back to the question, I'd be glad if any of the non-Lions-supporting Scottish element could enlighten me as to how many of their boys would need to be selected in order for them to lend their support?

In absence of any hard evidence (yet) I'd suggest 3/4 test starters, 5/6 in the test 23 and 10/11 in the tour party would be sufficient?

It's entirely possible that Hogg, Seymour (if he gets a run of good games) and Laidlaw (if he gets a run of other 9s being injured) could all start the 1st test.

Namaste
As a non native born scot that article linked to pretty much sums it up. for a generation the best scots players have consistently missed out. Its all a bit odd but as any real fan will know - its whats in your heart.

This time around for the lions? Hamish Watson is the stand out who should have gone. Best 7 this six nations. The others are more marginal calls Gray Brothers, Dunbar, Taylor, Barclay. It would be nice to see more than a token one or two

Its was just so predictable and dreary that the best scots would be overlooked. As soon as Gatland was named coach it was obvious.

The level of delusion here is quite wonderful and the ability to create a narative where Hamish Watson is the best 7 in Britain and a double grand slam and lions series winning coach is too stupid to see it due to his anti scots bias is lovely.
As a side note Watson is not as good as James Davies and he's not even on the Welsh tour to Tonga.
I'll just carry on looking forward to some quality rugby. Hell I even supported the Lions when Woodward pick Titteral!!

TJ

Whilst I agree it's disappointing when one's favourite players don't get picked there does seem to be a collective paranoia from the Scots that there's a conspiracy going on. Which there isn't.

Scotland had been pretty sh1t for about 15yrs until the Cotter led resurgence of late. If a team is very poor it's harder for individuals to stand out and thus get picked.

Scotland were unfortunate that some of their best players were in the most heavily contested positions. Watson was unlucky but Warbs and Tips have both performed at a high standard for longer. Scotland also beat Ireland but they beat the ABs and England this year - two sides who did/would hammer Scotland.

I think Launchbury should be on the tour but I'm still supporting the Lions - as I would if the test XV had no Englishmen.

Guys - what you don't understand its that this has been happening for a generation or more. go back to guys like Jason White

AA = Watson was clearly the best 7 in the 6N - his stats show it. He made more carries for more yards, more turnovers, more tackles with less missed. But Gatland takes all his favourite players even if out of form and / or injured

Scotland clearly were a better team than Wales this year. Yet look at the representation.

When you only get a token representation then it hard to get behind the eam

AA = Watson was clearly the best 7 in the 6N - his stats show it. He made more carries for more yards, more turnovers, more tackles with less missed. But Gatland takes all his favourite players even if out of form and / or injured

Stats dont meam shit. Warburton was outstanding playing out of position at 6 and Tipuric is simply a better player too. Trying to make out Watson is a clearly better player than a Lions series winning captain and that a decent professional coach cant see what you can by looking at a few stats makes you look bonkers I'm afraid.

Scotland clearly were a better team than Wales this year.

Tell me again how this clearly better side did v England? The pressure came on and they collectively shit the bed those attributes wont be needed in NZ.

AA - could equally say your blind adherence to these guys makes you look bonkers 🙂 Lets not fall out about it. I am trying to explain why, to me and others, the lions no longer feels like "our team" Not to rehash allthe selection debates

Yes each decision over selection over the last 25 years could be seen as reasonable when taken in isolation. Same with this years decisions. Gatland has a 50/50 choice in a number of positions - does he go with the guy he knows and trusts?

~There have been years when we hardly deserved much if any representation - but over the years the scots players are consistently overlooked. This year given the comparative performance of Scotland and Wales the disparity of numbers selected looks unfair

But what we are talking about here is feeling like you have a stake in the team. I and others no longer do because time and time again the scots players get overlooked. Every 50/50 decision goes against the scot. The lions simply does not feel like "our team" Of course I will support them but its not that gutwrenching feeling all true fans ( of scotland ? 🙂 ) will know

You can't change whats in your heart

Why would there be more scots? At least the welsh players can remember winning the odd grand slam and lions series in the dim and distant past,maybe he wants the mentality of people who can atleast remember winning something,saying that though i'm sure if the welsh players were completely honest they would admit to having a major mental block when it comes to N.Z.

Twickenham Tips?

A mate is a massive Wasps fan and has dragged me in to going to Twickenham this weekend.

Is it correct that I can tune my FM app on my phone to the commentary?
Any other tips? We have centreline seats.

AA - could equally say your blind adherence to these guys makes you look bonkers

You could but suggesting that Watson v Warburton is a 50 50 call is frankly bonkers.

Have I missed anything.....did we not have this conversation re Watson and back row some time ago.....????

Surely time to get on with the how are 'we' the Lions going to win.

Gatland got the gig - had our say for what it is worth - so for me I think we will miss Billy- went to Champions weekend and he was outstanding as was MAko.

More concerning was Laidlaw, who when he came on was so SLOW and ponderous itwill be interesting if he can get to any match fitness.

Laidlaw is a known quantity. Excellent pass but actual delivery can be slow and no threat around the fringes. Top notch kicker. Good tactical brain. He would be a good midweek captain but if he ends up starting the lions are in trouble 🙂

Billy is a big loss - no doubt at all. Haskell while a decent player is not the running threat that Billy is.

Yeah, I'm sure we had this arguement about the merits of the welshies and Scots a while back.

As a neutral to it, I feel well positioned to add some balance to it: your teams are both equally shite! 😆

Haskell while a decent player is not the running threat that Billy is.

😀

Haskals call up was am odd one. Obviously Moriarty will be playing 8 and maybe SOB.
I remain less than convinced Vunipola would have worried the all blacks.

Mike Brown gained the most metres in the 6 nations, why isn't he in the Lions - Scottish favouritism clearly.

Saw Moriarty playing the Friday for Glos against Stade, good solid game as did Morgan ( apart from his catching...) but the class of Parisee behind a good pack was evident, so some way to be convinced re Moriarty ( good player only going to get better) to Billy who looked pretty impressive even when running down a blind alley he managed to recycle.

Laidlaws time for me has passed, good player and good leader butScots looked better without him and accelerates Finn's learning and responsibility taking.

Vondally - I don't think we will see laidlaw play again for Scotland barring injuries. He misses the summer tour, 3 decent players vying for a starting berth. I don't think there will be room for him. He is off to France for a last big payday is he not?

Correct TJ, and good luck to him well deserved.

I remain less than convinced Vunipola would have worried the all blacks

O'Brian had the potential to be a great number 8 early on but he ended up at 6 because coaches because Leinster and Ireland had Heaslip and you could get both on the pitch by playing SOB at 6. Not sure if he is an option there now at International level.

but I've seen plenty of not Toby and moriarty and they aren't even close to billy at any aspect of the game.

I'm sorry but thats clearly bollocks, for starters Faletau is an excelent lineout option, faletau's work rate over the 80mins is much better and his support running and passing is better. No doubt Billy is a big loss and I expect he'd have been starting 8 but the only thing he's clearly better than Faletau at is carrying and whilst thats clearly pretty fundamentally important and Faletau is a very different beast but does have areas he's better than Billy.

Except it's not bollocks. Toby is an excellent player, there is no denying it but he's not at not really that close to billy in most aspects

Nobody got any twickenham tips for me then?

Toby is an excellent player, there is no denying it but he's not at not really that close to billy in most aspects

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Except thats not what you said. Take lineouts Faletau is a very good lineout option Vunipola isnt so your original assertion that no aspects are close is clearly bollocks although I suppose Faletau is so far ahead in this aspect that they arent close so you could be so wrong you've become right again 😉