.
Tell you what I would laugh my arse off if World Rugby decided to do the next world cup seedings off this world cup!!!
On the basis that Ireland always seem to choke on the big occasions and have never got past the quarters, whereas England have a habit of being just good enough.... it's by no means the foregone conclusion that some seem to make out.
There's a saying in cricket, it's not how, it's how many. IDK what the rugby equivalent is but there's not a lot of medals handed out for being pretty losers. So unless they're scrapping the text based results format and going to publish the final standings via interpretative dance or something, I suspect it'll say England - Bronze medal long after we remember how fancy the other teams were.
Also how the **** was Theo Dan MOM? Carreras was awesome.
I at least take some heart from the fact that the Falcons donated no England players to that mess but did have a couple of Argentina players there, including (Mateo) Carreras, who had a great game.
I probably would have picked Underhill for MOtM myself. I think it's policy now to pick from the winning side? At least it's not a public vote like in 2019!
long after we remember how fancy the other teams were.
It's almost like you want to come right out and say you think England are a good rugby team but even you can't bring yourself to utter the words.
It’s almost like you want to come right out and say you think England are a good rugby team but even you can’t bring yourself to utter the words.
By the definition of 'finding ways to win games when it matters' they are. There, I said it. Maybe not by other definitions of how they play, but the prizes go to those with most points, not those that looked nicest.
Better than 17 other teams by the only measure that matters. 3rd in the tournament. Bronze medallists.
The wailing of the ABE just makes it even better.
Tell you what I would laugh my arse off
Hope you've got an arse transplant organised AA... This is World Rugby you are talking about 😉
finding ways to win games when it matters’ they are.
With the exception of the SA game, I don’t believe that sentence applies to this England team no matter how many times they say it. It feels much more like just about getting the win accidentally to me.
what it "feels like" has bollocks-all relevance. Look at the scoreboard? At the final standings? What does that say?
It’s says we didn’t play any other top tier team except SA - to whom we lost. Im sorry but you can’t claim to be a good or great team until you’ve played and beaten the best.
I understand your point, we are where we are - 3rd - in the competition but unfortunately that by no means makes England the 3rd best team in the world. At best they are 5th behind NZ, SA, Ireland and France, but likely also 7th behind Wales and Scotland, and on a bad day could even rank below Aus, Argentina and Fiji.
Its not a compelling look.
.
That was always going to be a tough game for England. It’s been spoken about a lot in the press but after a physically and mentally bruising game like the one they had against SA, teams find it hard to bounce back and play well against a team they “should” beat. <br /><br />
I think England did ok, they won. It wasn’t pretty and it could very easily have been different in the last 20 minutes but they hung on. <br /><br />
Personally I think they need a rethink now the WC is over, some fresh talent and a change of strategy. The biggest issue for me is they can’t seem to work out how to score tries. In a nutshell, I think Farrell needs to go or at least not be captain.
I agree that the seedings were rubbish and why the draw need to be done years ago is beyond comprehension. However England had nothing to do with the the draw. This time the luck was on their side and they have found a way to 'just' win on a regular basis. And the one match they did lose, it was very close. They could have been playing the final.
Bigger questions about Wales. How come they lost to Argentina who England beat twice? And if Ireland are the best team in the world, then they ran out of steam in the quarters. Their famed development process is not providing the depth. But the biggest disappointment is the French.
They could have been playing the final.
Which would have been a total mockery to the actual world order.
That's an important point. Rugby by its nature is a debilitating attritional game. And to win a WC (or come third even) you need to play 7 games in 7 weeks of which the last three are knockout games against the best sides. 6 nations is 5 games in 6 weeks with whole weeks off for recovery, etc. It's not just about being great in a single game, it's being able to sustain it, and that's something England seem to do time and again in tournaments.
Look, I'm not trolling as such, although I must admit I'm enjoying rugby's legendary gentle fan banter. England aren't attractive in the way some other sides are, in fact they're often dour and ugly but the result is in letters and numbers, not pictures and on that score then we've bettered you all. Again.
See you in four years when maybe you can come up with a system for tournament rugby that that doesn't involve being also rans after the groups.
World cups are about squad depth, that's why NZ and SA are in the final. They have 2 squads with no drop off in talent.
England don't have that, but I think they probably have more depth than Ireland, Scotland and especially Wales. Ireland seemingly played pretty much their 1st team in every game, that must have hurt them in the quarters. France should have done better, they should be in the Final, but I cant knock SA for getting their instead.
Issues with Arundell again, of whom you'd have to admit wasn't good at all last night.
Which would have been a total mockery to the actual world order.
Yes, yes. This actual world order that's decided by how pretty sides are in one off games that don't count for much.
What colour medals did Scotland, Wales, France and Ireland get from that world order, remind me again.
@theotherjonv you and I aren't going to agree at England's current level of ability so let's just leave our differing opinions there eh.
Bigger questions about Wales. How come they lost to Argentina who England beat twice?
It has an easy answer though, Wales are shit. However had Argentina not gifted England a 15 point lead (or whatever it was) or not given away a daft charge down try they would have won last night.
I hope England continue to pick Smith at 15. He was beyond shit last night
you and I aren’t going to agree at England’s current level of ability so let’s just leave our differing opinions there eh.
Because that's a subjective measure, which counts for nothing.
The only relevant measure is games won and final position. 3rd.
So no, every time you or someone else posts to gripe about the unfairness of the rankings, or winning ugly, or whatever, I reserve the right to point smugly at the final standings.
What colour medals did Scotland, Wales, France and Ireland get from that world order, remind me again.
Ireland got gold in the 6 nations.
I hope England continue to pick Smith at 15. He was beyond shit last night
Smith is a good club player; not International standard though. He kicks randomly and without a clear objective. Playing him at 15 was inexplicable.
Steward at 14 equally so. Earl at 8? Madness.
At the end England had 3 fly-halfs on the pitch! Why?
I had hopes of Arundell after watching May puffing around, but he isn't all that.
The only relevant measure is games won and final position. 3rd.
In world rankings? This competition? Games played this week? Six nations?
I'm sorry but no one can look at how this current England side have played and say they are the third best in the world, even on a good day when they got tactics rights and managed to play the ref they lost to a tired SA.
Yes they came third in this competition but there was definitely a less difficult side to the draw. Maybe they should just make it a round robin competition, everyone plays everyone else. Winner has most points at the end.
In world rankings? This competition? Games played this week? Six nations?
Of course this competition. It's the only game in town at the moment.
I’m sorry but no one can look at how this current England side have played and say they are the third best in the world,
On the basis of finishing position in the world cup, the once every four years pinnacle of the game, look at the final positions and draw a conclusion. Unless as I said half a day ago, artistic impression is now more important. What's 'how they played' got to do with it - plenty of sides were way prettier, and have been sat at home for three weeks. Well done them.
Maybe they should just make it a round robin competition, everyone plays everyone else. Winner has most points at the end.
Then you're arguing for handing out the cups based on how long a cycle, towards the world ranking rules. Why have a tournament at all..... noting as I also said before that being able to do it repeatedly for 7 games over seven weeks is different to one off or more spaced out games.
I heard Farrell screaming at Arundell all night on the ref mic...tbf, Arundell was miles off basically every kick chase that he attempted.
At the end of it all, I'm missing the final as I'm working. Might watch it on catch up tomorrow, never quite the same though is it 😕
My point was about the ridiculously long gap between picking the seeded teams and the actual tournament. I specifically mentioned that England could only play the teams that were drawn against them. Some of the criticism of England towards the end of the six nations and during the summer was ott. England have improved on the evidence of victories over Argentina,Fiji,Japan, Samoa and Chile there's no disputing that and they pushed South Africa close.
That sequence of results does not point to England being a better team than France or Ireland though.
All Blacks for the win tonight.
Think it really does depend on how rested SA are. Tough game against France then England. How hard was that game? They obviously had to play the subs longer and harder than perhaps they'd have wanted to.
It'll be close and depends on how they manipulate the rush defence.
Which ones are Ireland, Scotland and Wales in that cartoon?
Ah, they're the ones looking up at the medallists on the podium. Again.
Anyway.
No substitute backs on the SA bench? (OK, one) In a couple of hours that's either going to be genius or a very silly idea.
Anyway. On with the game. Think All Blacks will sneak it as they have had an easier run in. Hopefully a game of running and passing rugby to entertain.
I do think England should start doing some Morris Dancing before KO, that would sure throw the opposition off kilter
Same place we always are. Sitting back laughing at English hubris.
I think England did very well to come third. Call it hubris if you like, but it beats going out in the group stage.
Good word. What's the word for 'flattering to deceive'. Promising much but falling short, again?
Is that going to be a red card, looked pretty deliberate.
Dirty. Pulling around the neck and dropping weight on an exposed leg.
Good for the game, not sure it's the right decision though.
Lucky we have so many qualified refs on this thread 🙄
Also
Ah, they’re the ones looking up at the medallists on the podium. Again.
Remind me where England were in 2015?
Sam Cane’s done here unless the TMO can find some mitigation.
Ugh pre match Morris dance vs highland fling.
Sigh I should never make predictions, looks like a canter home for the boks now
It of a damp squib so far
