Zulu-Eleven - MemberYes, I remember that episode, and exactly what was actually said at the time, rather than the Staggers editorial ... Thats why I'm still waiting to hear what Starkey has actually said that was racist
Jeezo. What has NS got to do with it? He said it on Newsnight, you can go watch the replays to see "what was actually said". Which was:
"A substantial section of the chavs have become black. The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic gangster culture has become the fashion."
Violent, destructive, nihilistic gangster culture being a black trait, and something that whites have to "become black" in order to do.
Just in case that's in any doubt, he reinforced it in the Mail:
"I said until I was blue in the face on the programme that I was not talking about skin colour but gang culture. A large group of whites have started to behave like blacks."
I don't buy TJ's theory that racism is inseperable from stupidity, TBH I consider Starkey living proof that you can be intelligent and racist. Either that, or that you can be racist for pay.
Northwind - to me being racist is prima facie evidence of an inability to process information logically.
There are a many different form of intelligence I believe and I know people of very high IQ with no "nous" at all
Yes, I know. Don't agree in the slightest.
Slight digression from the thread - here, Woppit - have you been reissued?
http://www.juno.co.uk/products/456768-01.htm
Z11 - that's a good clip and shows Starkey in a more favourable light. Unfortunately, other clips show his less desirable side - a dogmatic and unpleasant bully who despite obvious intellect cannot restrain himself from behaving likes those he abhors in other contexts (a case of those that are bullied becoming bullies themselves, perhaps?). Imagine putting him and Galloway and Peter Hitchens on the same program!!
RS +1 for the most part!However, he has now become a caricature of himself - he can no longer engage in debate, refuses to accept that he may in anyway be wrong or that others have views which may be as equally valid as his own.
Rather silly to question his intellect IMO. As others have said, people can be clever/intellectual and still hold views that others/most would find objectionable. That is true throughout history - go back to Aristotle and slavery as just one example. But is is funny how his shouting over people, occasional dogmatism, tiresome repetition and general unpleasantness often obscure some sensible points - a bit familiar that!!
Slight digression from the thread - here, Woppit - have you been reissued?
http://www.juno.co.uk/products/456768-01.htm
Yeah, the Warner Bros stuff is still knocking about under sub-contract...
nstead of the sneering, superior and condescending attitude you consistently display on here.
Evidence? (Usual question. Usually followed by silence...).
Pretty much everything you post, tbh 😀
But that's just a personal opinion.
Nowt condescending about that, then...
I said "evidence", not hearsay.
Quick edit there, Rusty. Must have hit a nerve, eh?
Well, as these things are subjective, my previous comment stands.
But it's only my opinion - I'm sure you won't let it upset you.
Oh, the edit was for your benefit!
I didn't want you receiving too much abuse. 🙁
What's your opinion based on, exactly, in this regard?
he can no longer engage in debate, refuses to accept that he may in anyway be wrong or that others have views which may be as equally valid as his own.
Sorry, are you referring to STW or David Starkey here?
On second thoughts, it doesn't matter as it applies equally well to either.
Oh, the edit was for your benefit!
I didn't want you receiving too much abuse.
Interesting that you confess to doing exactly what you accuse ME of, before withdrawing it.
... and still providing no evidence to support your assertions about me...
As stated, my evidence is the content of your posts.
In my opinion, these demonstrate the traits mentioned.
As this is a subjective matter, perhaps we could make it the subject of a weekly poll?
Mr Woppit - I am afraid from the contents of your posts on here "sneering, superior and condescending attitude" is how you often appear if a harsh assessment same as I appear argumentative, pompous and angry and hypocritical even tho I would deny it
As stated, my evidence is the content of your posts.
So the evidence is the "content" ([i]sic[/i]) of my posts, but it's subjective?
Gosh.
I challenge you to trawl through ANY of my posts and show where they are "sneering, superior and condescending" and then justify your interpretation.
Otherwise, you're just blowing in the wind, I'm afraid.
"I challenge you to trawl through ANY of my posts and show where they are "sneering, superior and condescending" and then justify your interpretation."
How about nasty, rude and charmless ?
Yes.
Of course my opinion of your attitude is subjective, how could it not be?
Nice to see we finally agree. 🙂
I challenge you to trawl through ANY of my posts and show where they are "sneering, superior and condescending" and then justify your interpretation.Otherwise, you're just blowing in the wind, I'm afraid.
I'm trying to think how that would work.
Someone posts one of your posts that they think is "sneering, superior and condescending" and then justify their interpretation.
You respond by saying they're wrong, or words to that extent.
And the end of the day the same people will still think you're "sneering, superior and condescending" - a viewpoint they've reached by reading your posts.
You can either ignore them, or take on board what they think.
But trying to demand evidence isn't going to get you anywhere.
Violent, destructive, nihilistic gangster culture being a black trait
Did Starkey say that? If he did then I would agree that it was definitely a racist remark, but I don't think he said that did he?
Surely not, he's too fabulous isn't he?
Referring to last week’s riots, Dr Starkey told BBC2’s Newsnight: “But it was not inter-community violence, this is where he (Powell) was completely wrong.“The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic, gangster culture has become the fashion. And black and white, boy and girl, operate in this language together, this language which is wholly false, which is this Jamaican patois that’s been intruded in England, and this is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country.
You decide?
Well on that basis I don't think he said anything like it was a trait of black people but it does sound like he was saying it is a trait of black culture.
The term 'black culture' is the problem because it is not homogenous and to suggest that all black culture is of one thing or another, violent or otherwise is incorrect.
But I think it is fair to say that there are elements of 'black culture' that are violent and destructive.
There are elements of all cultures that are like that, but you don't see so many teenagers with pictures of Yakuza/Mafia/Triads on their walls (a metaphor) or trying to emulate their speech whereas the points that Starkey made seem to be pretty close to what I've seen around me.
And the end of the day the same people will still think you're "sneering, superior and condescending" - a viewpoint they've reached by reading your posts.You can either ignore them, or take on board what they think.
It's not my problem if the poor little darling can't muster the minimal intelligence needed to demonstrate that he isn't just, at best, suffering from an unfortunate tendency to confuse his hallucinations with reality.
Oh, hang on...
