[Closed] Road closures and getting through snow

It's probably up to the whim of the local constable unless a TRO is in place.

And for for those of you worrying, I would take precautions to get myself out of trouble if I got into it, I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT CALL THE EMERGENCY SERVICES. Just think of it as the trail starting earlier than it usually does. After all the plan would be to go even further up into the mountains than the road goes

unless of course the reason its closed is because its actually a really dangerous road when snowy and there is a risk of you leaving the road/ending up in a ditch on your roof, but of course you DEFINITELY WOULD NOT CALL THE EMERGENCY SERVICES in such a situation would you...

there's a difference between being well equipped and setting out along a snowy road that might be awkward, vs doing the same on a road that someone (tasked with making such decisions) has decided is too dangerous to be left open.

Roads can be closed for many reasons, not just because it's a bit snowy, could be that it's tree lined and the snow is meaning there is a danger of tress coming down...could be damaged surface due to freeze/ice expansion etc.

happens for non snowy reasons too, landslide risk, flash flooding etc, road may look perfectly fine but if it's been closed the its likely for a good reason.

as for the legality of it, I dunno... but I would think road closed means road closed*

*so unlikely to be caught (or found) as there will be nobody there?

@Zokes I have become accustomed to my luxurious centrally heated environment, but shall still still try to waddle there.

FFS we aren't talking about an artic expedition here. We are talking about driving on an untreated A road with light snow covering in a car equipped with winter tyres.

Soemthing most of the rest of Europe manages without drama on a regular basis.

Bulldog spirit my arse

Daffy - Member
how do you manage to cross a road safely? serious question btw!
It's not about capability though is it? It's about social responsibility and putting others ahead of your selfish needs.

Are there any further dots you'd like me to connect for you?

FFS we aren't talking about an artic expedition here. We are talking about driving on an untreated A road with light snow covering in a car equipped with winter tyres.

In all likelyhood you're probably right, but unless you closed that road you don't know for sure...

IS this thread really happening on a mountain bike forum?

Christ, how the hell do you lot ride off road? Everytime you do, you're taking risks that if you need rescuing, you will put someone else into a position that otherwise they wouldn't have had to but for your selfish recklessness.

Grow a pair people!

Mol, I did hear after the flooding last time that the police were saying it was an offence to drive on shut roads. I would guess the same applies to snow, but can't say it was fact and the copper had got it right.
If he did, well, on top of my speeding, I've been driving down the cheddar gorge everyday on the way to work, and that's been shut since November at least!

Christ, how the hell do you lot ride off road? Everytime you do, you're taking risks that if you need rescuing, you will put someone else into a position that otherwise they wouldn't have had to but for your selfish recklessness.

Yeah, but it's a bit different when the weather is bad enough that the emergency services are already stretched. Isn't it about the level of "selfish recklessness"? Particularly when the media are teling us all not to make journeys that aren't essential anyway.

so meanwhile when the road opens and your car is where ?

So when you get stuck in snow, your car just stops immediately and cannot be moved, is that it? That's not my experience.

A bit more clarification then. I know the road in question pretty well. It's a trunk road, it's wide, well surfaced, and is not tree lined or anything. It MOSTLY is a steady uphill all the way there, except for one section that dips down and then has a relatively steep bit on the way up. That's the only steep section and is where people get stuck if they do. That is only maybe 2-3 miles from where I need to be, so if I have to park up and walk or bike the last bit. It gets closed often in snow because it goes high up.

I'm not going to spin off the road if I am driving at 10mph on the straights.

And if I am walking out, I could break my ankle or worse yes. But that could happen on any walk, couldn't it? Are you going to stay in your house and not walk anywhere because of the snow?

I've just been on the A470.
At the Aberystwyth end the police were advising people it was impassable- no way through, because of first a jack knifed lorry and then snow drifts.
There were gritters going up and down, so it should improve.
I didn't have a choice however, but eventually had to give up.

Peyote - Member

Yeah, but it's a bit different when the weather is bad enough that the emergency services are already stretched. Isn't it about the level of "selfish recklessness"? Particularly when the media are teling us all not to make journeys that aren't essential anyway.

I am sure that if my road was a major artery like the A470, it would be closed . I live on the road from Talybont over the Glyn to Pontsticill, it is however, passable in a 4x4 with winter tyres (my suzuki), my father in laws hilux which does not have winter tyres, and even for the most part, my focus estate with winter tyres on the front, I would not attempt the steepest pitch on the glyn in the ford though, the A470 has been closed for far less than is on our road now (5"+). A major road is different in that you are not going to be an obstacle if you get stuck. Last year a hired box van was left wedged at the foot of the glyn, it could not go up and slipped down between black ice and a tree, blocking the whole road for anyone who could have managed it. No note left, no sign of driver, shocker! Farmers and locals will have been.using the 'closed' road to move between fields to feed livestock and get down to work I'm sure.

It is in fact the Storey Arms part of the A470 I am talking about.

Your mate's got a 4x4? Merthyr > Pontsticil > The Gap > Brecon. Can't see the problem myself... 😉

"So when you get stuck in snow, your car just stops immediately and cannot be moved, is that it? That's not my experience."

do a bit of digging with my shovel , throw down a bit of grit , let tires down a bit , engage 4wd and carry on - how ever even with a 4x4 i avoid putting my self in that situation.

as yet even driving the uncleared back roads where the cars dare not to ive yet to use owt but RWD - i just keep my speed down and view it as doing 10-20mph is better than sitting stationary.

Soemthing most of the rest of Europe manages without drama on a regular basis.

In all likelihood you could do as you say and reach your destination with no trouble at all, and if not, like you say, you can walk.

my point being that you don't know *why* they closed the road, you're just guessing and if anything were to happen you're not just putting yourself out.

its not about if you *could* drive that road, it's about if you *should*...only you can make that decision after weighing up all the points made above, but you probably shouldn't be using internet forums to make your decisions!

Storey Arms was open earlier, heard A470 was closed down by Pontypridd.
Probably accident related like Beefhearts incident.
Powys tend to be pretty good at road clearing and gritting as a large rural authority, it's when we head out of Powys the roads get crap.

Story Arms!
You could cycle or walk to Merthyr from there without too much bother.
The danger begins when you arrive to Merthyr.

my point being that you don't know *why* they closed the road, you're just guessing

Well, it's a road that is regularly closed because of snow, and it's been snowing a lot. I think it's a reasonable assumption.

I want to go from Cardiff to the Storey Arms itself. The rest of the A470 looks pretty clear on the live traffic cams.

Only issue is if it's more than about 6-8" of fresh snow and I get grounded, or if there are big drifts.

My mate with the 4x4 is not coming, he can't get out of high wycombe.

<sigh> it's not really a 'race' is it? More like an on foot Sportive for flabby IT wallahs with SAS flavoured delusions.... Getting there is the least of your worries.

And for those that have missed it, Moly acquired his argumentative style from observing TJ/Fred so you're wasting your time. Black is indeed white.

My mate with the 4x4 is not coming, he can't get out of high wycombe

He wouldn't be much use in the Brecons then, would he! 🙂

My mate with the 4x4 is not coming, he can't get out of high wycombe.

- did you mean faux x faux .......

I don't know if its enforceable but I'll offer an opinion; there are an alarming number of fannies on this forum.

I once went on a bike ride and did not complete a risk assessment or method statement beforehand.

I reported myself to the HSE, of course.

Some of the people posting here would presumably evacuate their bowels at the mere sight of the roads and driving in some other countries.... 😆

He can't get out of wycomee and you think he'll be of use getting upto the breacons? I think you ought to go back to bed. Think of the money you'll save by staying under a duvet.

au contrare aristotle

its more having seen how molgrips reacts in other threads.

having spent last winter in ukraine in -28 im quite au fait with driving inappropriate cars(all of their cars except the urals :D) in inappropriate conditions and inappropriate speeds and being scared witless....

Where we're going we don't need roads!

trail_rat - Member

au contrare aristotle

its more having seen how molgrips reacts in other threads.

??

Anyhow, one takes one's chances in life and one doesn't always need to consult a www forum. Google is quite useful

he does everything the most complex overthought way possible - i think he works in IT 😀 *wavesatmolgrips*

He wouldn't be much use in the Brecons then, would he!

Have you been to High Wycombe? The main way out is up a very long steep hill. Probably slightly less steep than Nant Ddu (the steep bit of the Storey Arms road) but a lot longer. And it's steeper than anything on the brecon side.

Plus it's probably been polished by the spinning wheels of expensive RWD cars.

So did he go? Was he on the news?

@maxtorque: that is awesome! If you made the screw thingys boyant enough so they sit just below the water then I wonder if it would work on water too? 😀

I need to get a tractor and 2 huge screw things...

As for closed roads - the road up cheddar gorge has "road closed" signs at the top and bottom but there have been enough people going up and down it in cars. And that road has lots of rocks fallen from the cliff sides and big holes at the road edges. No idea if anyone has braved it in the last 2 days though.

Just read through this, very amusing! I was intrigued by this:

Have you been to High Wycombe? The main way out is up a very long steep hill. Probably slightly less steep than Nant Ddu (the steep bit of the Storey Arms road) but a lot longer. And it's steeper than anything on the brecon side.

Someone doesn't know how to read contour lines!

So how did you get on!!??
Pics?

I struggle with long sentences, but here's something that happened near to me in normal weather.

A road was closed with barriers both at ends. It formed a useful short cut but the way round was only a few miles longer. Late at night a driver decided he'd take his chances: he moved the barrier, drove past, and replaced the barrier behind him. He drove on happily, went round a bend and into the fallen tree.

Next morning the council crew found him when they arrived to deal with the tree. He was trapped in the wreckage with both legs broken. Luckily it wasn't cold and snowing.

Even though the OP's not doing the race anymore I think he needs to drive that road anyway to settle the thread. It's the only way.

IMO what he was proposing really wasn't that big a deal.

You need an [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerosani ]aerosani[/url]:

[img] [/img]

(Guns optional)

andyl

@maxtorque: that is awesome! If you made the screw thingys boyant enough so they sit just below the water then I wonder if it would work on water too?

Hell yeah!

[img] ?fx=r_550_550[/img]

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/ice_challenger

(ignore the terrible US narration!)

The road wad open and clear, I did the race, I think I'll post a report later 🙂

I drove past the storey arms yesterday,I've never seen so many people with sledges and snowboards. Was like a scene from the alps.

Yeah it's always like that. Sometimes fair enough, cos that's the only place with snow, but it's snowed up all over the country more or less - why drive all the way up there?

molgrips,

how enforceable a road closure is will depend on different factors (e.g. failing to follow the instructions of a constable if he is actually present is likely to get you in bother). Proper snow gates usually have a "no motorised vehicles" sign on them which would be enforceable; red rectangular signs may not be if there is no accompanying road closure order. But see this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jan/11/police-road-block-rights

If you skid off the road or hit someone else coming the otherway I'd expect your insurers to raise a few eyebrows.

If there are jacknifed lorries then (1) you won't get through even with a 4x4 if they are completely blocking the road (2) there may be people working to try and clear the obstruction who assume they are relatively safe (blind bends / summits, poor vis etc?) because the road is closed.

One of the problems when people get stuck is they abandon their cars on the road, then when someone comes to clear it (1) there is an obstruction (2) there is a vehicle in a stupid place delaying the road opening or presenting a hazard to drivers. You might be able to get your car somewhere more sensible - but my experience is when the roads are impassable the laybys are even worse (as a plough has dumped a load of snow in it). If the snow is drifting your stop may be more abrupt than you think. I've not idea how bad it is where you are - but if its a main route and they have closed it for more than a few hours whilst waiting for a plough then its probably a bigger obstruction than you think.