Suggesting many people have little interest in one part of how our state works is not “calling all voters stupid”. It’s calling some of them busier and less dull than some people obsessed with posting on a mountain biking forum about a politician. Everyone has different interests and apply their time and aptitudes on different things. Whatever their intelligence.
And yes I do kick hard.
And moan about being bullied.
And moan about being bullied.
I took "kick hard" as meaning making your point forcibly.
Yes I do "moan" about political threads being derailed and reduced to personal attacks, not necessarily against me, which is of course precisely what has yet again happened here.
The bullying and personal attacks creates a toxic environment which invariably leads to people feeling unable to express their opinions if they don't fit perfectly with the perceived consensus.
You represent a perfect example of this as you police the political threads looking for "trolls" who have a different opinion. Luckily for you your job is made easy by the fact that the echo chamber is mostly self perpetuating.
How about discussing Rishi Sunak and the current political situation now? It is frankly astonishing how a link to a Sky News article managed to derail the thread because it didn't fit nicely with the preferred voters are stupid and ignorant narrative.
Many economists said his autumn statement had factored in implausible public spending squeezes, while the International Monetary Fund said further tax cuts in his 6 March budget could put at risk the government's ability to invest in the NHS and other vital services.
So Labour form a government in May and in their very first budget they put up taxes. Immediately the Tories respond with "there, we told you so" and the fight to win the 2029 general election begins.
Also another reason for the Tories not waiting until the autumn public spending squeeze before calling a general election.
This is the real issue for Labour, not how to win the 2024 election but how not to lose the 2029 one.
A week is a long time in politics but 5 years is a pretty short time to turn round a broken economy and the last thing we need is a resurgent far right tory party swanning back into power for another decade because some of the hard decisions which absolutely have to be made are not bearing fruit quick enough. The electorate may not (all) be stupid but they are impatient and easily led (its a human trait), especially if they can't see any immediate gain but can see immediate pain.
Starmer has an almost impossible job
Labour isn’t facing electoral loss in 2029. It’s facing oblivion. The same reckoning happened to the Labour Party in Ireland after it governed with neoliberal policies, and the same change has consumed the mainstream social democratic parties in numerous other European democracies where they had abandoned their purpose.
First 100 days is crucial, can't see anything other than Labour doing nothing which is what they're promising.
This idea that things will get better under a similar macro-economic consensus if for the birds.
This is not hard to correct really (might take some time of course) but Starmer simply needs to stop regressing every five minutes towards the Conservative way of doing things.
I find it uncomfortable that the Labour right have total lack of awareness that they have slipped into the Conservative policy thinking.
https://twitter.com/StephanieKelton/status/1755951613330563150?t=dYKz4Q1dYVbDGvZ2c-TjZw&s=19
Labour isn’t facing electoral loss in 2029. It’s facing oblivion.
Which I why they need to introduce P.R
Starmer has an almost impossible job
Well he is not making it easy for himself by embracing the Tories's economic narrative. It might well help him to win a general election but it won't help him to solve the neoliberal economic crisis and all the underlying issues that it causes.
If the Tories can't resolve the crisis then as sure as hell Starmer won't either by repackaging the same Tory policies and simply applying them more competently and with alledgedly greater integrity.
One of the very best examples of the dangers of embracing the Tories's economic narrative is the 2010 general election campaign.
The Tories claimed in that campaign that clearing the deficit (alledgedly caused by Labour not the global credit crisis) had to be the economic priority and that it should be achieved during the period of one parliament.
Instead of arguing against that narrative Labour embraced it and agreed that eliminating the deficit should be an economic priority, but that Labour would eliminate the deficit over the course of two parliaments.
The LibDems arriving late to the neoliberal party, following the tragic death of Charles Kennedy, agreed with the Tories that the deficit should be eliminated in five years.
The electorate were thus faced with a situation where all three main political parties agreed that eliminating the deficit was an economic priority but one, despite being browbeaten into agreeing of the importance of it, wanted to drag its feet and do it over 10 years instead of five. It's not difficult figuring out what party didn't form a government.
If Labour want to play by the Tory rules and agenda the Tories will always eventually triumph.
Edit: And just to be clear - no one cleared the deficit. The last time there was a surplus was well over 20 years ago. When Labour were in government.
Labour isn’t facing electoral loss in 2029. It’s facing oblivion. The same reckoning happened to the Labour Party in Ireland after it governed with neoliberal policies, and the same change has consumed the mainstream social democratic parties in numerous other European democracies where they had abandoned their purpose.
Yup, that phenomena even has a name -Pasokification.
I fully expect support for the Labour government to collapse within the first year. Unlike 1997 Labour will inherit an economy in crisis and they have no solutions beyond maintaining Tory fiscal prudence.
It will provide an excellent environment for a new emerging hard-right party. Which will need to be countered by a radical left alternative party.
^^ That's a bite from a man that has no intention of finishing it.
Bloody sacrilege!
I bet he googled the pasties history and that the miners used to hold the sacrificial edge to prevent them eating lead oxide etc. from their hands.
Cornwall isn't as pro Tory /Brexit as it was. Reality has hit hard down there so I'm told.
^^ That’s a bite from a man that has no intention of finishing it.
Do you really think he took a bite out of it?, his media flunky would have set the entire scene up by purchasing the pasty and taking a bite then handed it to him for the photo opportunity.
I think that was a ‘contractual obligation’ bite from a man who’s never even seen a pasty before, never mind eaten one
Maybe he got one of his aides to take a bite out of it for him then he could use it as a prop for the photoshoot?
Ya cynical buggers. You both might be right though.
This is why I love STW, we are deep diving into Sunak's potential to have bitten out not bitten a pasty.😁
*Not* being sarcastic btw, I love this place!
My other takeaway is that I really miss proper Cornish pasties. Not been there in 10 years, really miss it.
I also know that the ability to have a sensible discussion on a political thread ceases when we get to the “voters are stupid and ignorant” point.
Ironically it is a STW attitude which is probably shared with many Tory politicians.
It is just a fact that a lot of people are stupid and ignorant. You can join them by being ignorant and stupid about that fact if you like 🙂
Accepting it means you can then have a discussion bearing that very important factor in mind. Tory politicians are well aware of the fact and have taken advantage of it, how do you think they are in power most of the time - it is not because they are the best choice for most people who vote for them is it...
An interesting article on Cornwall Live on Rishi's little jaunt to the seaside
He flew there in a Private Plane (surprise, surprise!)
The whole thing was stage-managed to within an inch of its life, with all efforts made to make sure he doesn't encounter an actual member of the public (perish the thought!), but also that he's kept away from the media asking questions too. The media was allowed 12 whole minutes with him where he basically regurgitated a party political broadcast at them. No time for questions.
No photographers were allowed either, so the only images of any of these events are the ones posed for the official Number Ten snappers, then approved for release to the media. The 'look at me eating a pasty, just like one of the great unwashed' image being one of those
Looks like thats the way things are going to be for the upcoming election campaign
Rishi Sunak in Cornwall squeezes into tiny pre-school seat to defend transgender jibe
We find out this week if we're in a technical recession.
Looking close but it was the run up to Christmas. (Q3 -0.1) (Q4 expected -0.1)
If this hits expect more Pez head movements from Sunak.
One of Sunak's failed pledges (common theme amongst leaders these days) is to have the economy growing by the end of the year.
Weren't retail sales massively down in December?
And lets be honest, retail sales were the only thing keeping us, technically, out of a recession in the first place.
I can't see any good economic news coming to Lil Rishi's rescue. And on top of retail sales etc, there the small matter of the ongoing Brexit shitstorm. This is a good article in todays Observer by Jay Rayner on the latest instalment of the economic sanctions the Brexiteers voluntarily imposed on the UK economy
The chickens are all coming home to roost, aren't they? Rishi could be going into an election to the backdrop of Soviet style empty supermarket shelves
its OK sunak is being 'interviewed' by reese smug on Gbnews tonight
thatll turn things around
https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1756407689570132235?s=19
https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1757067859295908237?s=19
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1757087174779183560?t=wAvCSIpHTfKct-d2X3dK6Q&s=19
I see Govey has this morning expressing an interest in rights for renters including an end to no fault evictions.
They promised to sort all this out in 2019. It was a manifesto pledge and they have done the square root of **** all about it since being elected. I'm sure this has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of Tory MPs who have a portfolio of rental properties.
Anyone would think there was an election coming
Don't worry @binners, as Ernie said we've got a sophisticated bunch of voters who won't be fooled by those pesky politicians
There are only 12 people actually watch GeeBeebies, but you’re right… how the hell can it be permissible for a sitting Tory MP to spend a televised hour blowing smoke up a Tory PMs arse in the week of two by-elections?
how the hell can it be permissible for a sitting Tory MP to spend a televised hour blowing smoke up a Tory PMs arse in the week of two by-elections
They use the "current affairs" as opposed to "news" excuse.
Doesnt always work since they got a smacked hand when the tory mps Mcvey and Davies interview hunt last march but that was because they didnt include enough different viewpoints (odd that).
I assume there is an outstanding case for 30p lee interviewing cruella last September.
Ofcom have alledgedly launched a survey to find out what people think of mps acting as news host but I expect that will die quietly unless labour get in on the act.
This is apparently looking very like a handpicked audience rather than the hostile crowd you'd expect given his approval ratings, so surely it won't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever?
GBN is worse than RT, which at least made a tissue thin pretence of being something other than a pure propaganda channel.
Don’t worry @binners, as Ernie said we’ve got a sophisticated bunch of voters who won’t be fooled by those pesky politicians
So now we are having a personal pop at people when they aren't even on the thread, nice.
Been ruminating much since my comment two days ago?
Oh dear lord! Rishi handpicks an audience of supportive, GeeBeebies-watching, right-wing nutjobs and then is surprised when one of them is an actual nutjob and goes full Andrew Bridgen tinfoil helmet on him
Check out the look on his terrified, panic-stricken ickle face. A rabbit in the headlights 😂
https://twitter.com/indiawilloughby/status/1757150826823385234?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
As Dissonance says… GBNews isn’t “News”, despite the name. And selling themselves as such. Lowlifes.
As Dissonance says… GBNews isn’t “News”, despite the name. Lowlifes.
I might be mis-remembering, but I'm sure GBnews had to say they were an 'entertainment channel' rather than a news channel as defence in a court case a bit back for basically spouting total BS....
OK fine, but don't call yourself GBnews then?
Indeed. The programmes hosted by MPs, and the majority of the other content, are current affairs, and they are getting past rules aimed at news output that way. Despite describing themselves as…
“ GB News is Britain's News Channel. We're different. A new approach to how news is done - stories that really matter to people in the United Kingdom. “
So, it describes itself to its viewers as a News Channel, but Ofcom is allowing it operate as if it is not.
I might be mis-remembering, but I’m sure GBnews had to say they were an ‘entertainment channel’ rather than a news channel as defence in a court case a bit back for basically spouting total BS….
I think that was Fox in the US. Or possibly both of them!
their (Fox) argument in court was only a complete moron would believe what we say and they won. 😕
Rishi handpicks an audience of supportive, GeeBeebies-watching, right-wing nutjobs and then is surprised when one of them is an actual nutjob
It's like a constant source of amazement to these people in power that when they appeal to the lowest common denominator, when you suggest there are clandestine leftie forces at play on some vast global conspiracy, they actually get these thick as pigshit conspiracy theory morons popping up.
When you pump out a load of propaganda and lies, you're suddenly faced with the people who believe it all and they're invariably absolutely ****ing mental and potentially quite dangerous.
No wonder Sunak looked scared in front of that Scottish bloke - now imagine meeting the same guy outside a pub in the rough end of Glasgow at 11pm on a Saturday. 😳
This has been the problem that has been getting worse since 2016.
Who'd have thunk that when you open a whole can of worms and start whipping up all kind of populist nonsense to appear to hard-of-thinking, offering simplistic answers to complex problems, it comes back to bite you on the arse?
As a Brexiteer Rishi is reaping what he helped sow, so he deserves everything he gets. No wonder he's doing everything in his power to have his campaign stage-managed to exclude any contact with the great unwashed
Meanwhile Cruella - the idiots idiot - continues with her leadership campaign to appeal to the same audience of bigots and morons that delivered Brexit....
https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1757332229175308779?s=20
some accents (western isles, southern irish, proper somerset) sound like a spoonful of honey. Others don't.
That guy is only saying his name - Mr Rishi Sunak - but the accent sounds like a broken nose.
Probably had bums twitching in Rishi's security detail for a moment there. You never know when one of these loons is going to go pop.
Another top moment from the farce was the audience member interviewed afterwards who asked where he could put his expenses claim in. Not sure at all!
No wonder Sunak looked scared in front of that Scottish bloke – now imagine meeting the same guy outside a pub in the rough end of Glasgow at 11pm on a Saturday. 😳
Here he is below, we have some right dickheads walking amongst us
https://twitter.com/mrhenrymorris/status/1757155836818809085?s=46&t=qvPR6lBfBXtAWZ-6beFWyA
The problem for Sunak is that he's courted these loons. He's only just booted one MP out of his party (Andrew Bridgen) who was saying the same thing. But he wasn't alone. There are plenty on his own 'libertarian' backbenches who are broadly sympathetic to crackpot conspiracy theories like this and Sunak has spent years firstly playing them for their support, then pandering to them.
By cynically nodding and winking at them that he's a fellow traveller, when it suited him, he can hardly now moan that they're not happy about being 'betrayed'
I worked up in Glasgow for 6 years.
I have worked dozens of Glaswegians.
But I can barely understand what that bloke is saying, don't know if he's deliberately exaggerating his accent or it's just a shit PA?
But I can barely understand what that bloke is saying, don’t know if he’s deliberately exaggerating his accent or it’s just a shit PA?
North Ayrshire style of accent, same as an "ex" mate
Gove, after announcing his newfound appetite for renters rights earlier this week, is at it again.
Now he's announcing a desire to change planning laws so that affordable homes can be built so first time buyers can get on the housing ladder
As he announced this still vague sort of intention, rather than an actual manifesto commitment, it was pointed out that they've been in power 14 years and the last changes to planning law they made was to give NIMBY's more power to stop housing developments.
The Tory party, aka the Announcement party.
Was the announcement made through formal parliamentary channels, aka GB News?
Announcements dave actually implementing anything which is so time consuming and difficult.
their (Fox) argument in court was only a complete moron would believe what we say and they won.
It was a libel case about something tucker, of recent putin arsekissing fame, said. The defence was Tucker was an entertainer and so any "reasonable viewer" would treat his claims with skepticism and so therefore no harm could have been done.
GBeebies use the although we say we are a news channel we are really a current affairs channel and hence those pesky rules dont apply to us.
There are no shortage of investigations into GBnews - currently.
Ofcom like lots of these regulators are waste of space - and the damage is already done before they get (if) reprimanded.
Join the queue.
There has to be a significant range of views on tricky issues. That's probaly easy to observe. But then again Kate Andrews is always on Question Time too.
There not being any sort of manifesto for the Tories is another reason i don’t think theres an election imminent
It'd only be another set of complete lies, movable goalposts and vague soundbites like "grow the economy" so the presence or absence of one really doesn't mean a lot.
In spite of Labour flip-flopping around in the background seemingly trying to dig their own grave, I think the Tories could promise everyone a gold-plated unicorn and they'll still get wiped out.
Although I'm really not a fan of the Labour stance at the moment which seems to be "wait for the Tories to lose".
dragging it out is only going get worse for them, more big energy bills landing on the doormat and more people coming off low fixed rate deals (even if rates start to drop it's going to hurt).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-made-raf-jet-32114715
Apologies for the tabloid link but it seems Rishi couldn't get away from the filming venue quick enough!
Whistle up the private jet! Again.
He looks like he hates everyone. He believes everyone is beneath him
One look at him and you just know he hasn’t got and never has had a single friend in the world.
That’s what happens when everything in your life is purely transactional. How very Tory. The only question in every situation is ‘what’s in it for me?’
Sometimes I almost pity them, with the yawning void where their souls should be, then I remember how much I absolutely despise them.
So Infosys had 7million in contracts from public money?
This is the blatant end for transfer of wealth from public money to private income.
Notice how there's no money left is only said by Labour. Tories always find it.
That’s what happens when everything in your life is purely transactional. How very Tory. The only question in every situation is ‘what’s in it for me?’
He's a sort of distilled essence of every Apprentice candidate. Everything is about money, ideally how it can be channelled to him and his family. Everything is simply business, there's no space in his mind for anything other than making more money.
There's not even any concept of the *value* of anything like social care or public transport, it all comes down to the bottom line. Does it cost money?
Yes = get rid of it, cut it back, sell it to the private sector.
There not being any sort of manifesto for the Tories is another reason i don’t think theres an election imminent
I'm unable to lay hands on the quote but one of the last Tories to cross the floor said all they have is culture war nonsense. There will be no manifesto.
Jernick was interesting on Radio4 this morning... firstly he clearly considers himself a possible party leader... which surprises me... secondly he's actively fishing in Texas for ways to make immigration, and taking new "tough" physical measures against migrants, a live issue to win votes in future elections.
Honest Bob has fancied himself as the next leader for quite a while. I suspect he'll end up running on a joint ticket with Cruella as he's spent the last 12 months as her sock puppet
Unfortunately it looks like the battle lines are being drawn for the election, majoring on immigration, immigration and immigration, because its literally all they've got. They're clearly seeking to recreate the Brexit campaign, with all the racist dog-whistling that involved
The cover of todays Daily Express whipping up stories of 'Islamist Mobs'
Expect an awful lot more of this sort of thing
I watched this interview with Gary Stevenson last night and I agree with everything said in it, 1hr long interview but worth a watch.
So the election is going to be in the Autumn and not May, eh?
This load of old bollocks just dropped through the letterbox. We got one each. An eight page A4 leaflet from our useless, corrupt, mekon-headed Tory MP, obviously designed by a visual illiterate to resemble some sort of 'Take a Break' style supermarket trash magazine. It has no Tory party branding anywhere. No mention of the Conservative party at all.
It features a lot of stuff saying how great Rishi is, a succession of absolute whoppers about the NHS being in great nick and getting better all the time, more police on the street then a load of promises of things that are clearly never going to happen...
Levelling up - didn't they promise that 5 years ago and nothing has happened?
Building loads of affordable homes - didn't they promise that 5 years ago and nothing has happened?
Billions of investment in to local transport - didn't they promise that 5 years ago and nothing has happened?
Increased free childcare - isn't that entire policy in the process of falling apart?
You get the picture. Gaslighting nonsense.
I'm absolutely sure they'd be doing this if the election was going to be in November and not May. Of course they would.
I don’t get Tory shite through my door anymore, got a “**** the tories” big sticker on it and gave out dozens to those in my neighbourhood who liked the idea of making our area of kirkcudbright a Tory free zone
more police on the street
This is another one that annoys me, just a phrase to appeal to the gammons. Yes, it's good for a bit of "visibility" but they're not really doing much are they? They're not investigating, interviewing, solving crimes, targeting known suspects - none of it is intelligence-led policing or good use of resources.
I mean yes, there is absolutely a place for community policing but having a load of officers wandering around the streets just because a political party wants to be seen to have "more police on the streets" is not really the answer.
Edit: where it is a definite answer is actual roads / traffic police but they're the ones that have been cut the most.
They're using the picture of Rishi on the cover when he did his (literal) flying visit to Bury Market and did a press conference where he opened with 'Its great to be here in Burnley'.
Northern places? They're all the same, aren't they? Same distance from Manchester airport in a helicopter.
Prime everyone to go early in May for the GE after your magic NI cuts then realise everything is going downhill fast, we're likely to be in offical recession and you're going to get stuffed in the polls anyway, may as well wait for Autumn and line your pockets for a few more months before you have to start paying for your flights and cars again, let the loons sort it all out with what slim picking are left...
Getting more pessimistic about an early chance to get rid of these scumbags
Getting more pessimistic about an early chance to get rid of these scumbags
Me too. They know that, barring total miracle, they're going to get annihilated so why not hang on as long as possible? Also if they hang on long enough, Labour might self-destruct a bit over the whole Israel thing.
https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1757814797444202990?t=gTsFCyTQihlCdkDDUYhijA&s=19
It's ok, Jeremy (H)unt is going to cut public spending even more to fund tax breaks ahead of the election
https://www.ft.com/content/2853910d-f654-4344-b4a0-948d8564e1a9
may as well wait for Autumn and line your pockets
Rishi Sunak really doesn't need his position as Prime Minister to line his pockets. He can easily afford to pay for his cars and flights.
What will interest him most is his place in British history. Encouraging everyone to believe that there will be a Spring general election and then not calling for one until the Autumn won't do him any favours. He would be much better off discouraging talk of a May general election if he hasn't yet made up his mind.
Rishi Sunak's number one priority now has to be at the very least to avoid Tory electoral Armageddon, although no doubt in his dreams to deny Labour a working majority.
Rishi Sunak doesn't need to financially enrich himself (other than to boost his ego) his income already I am sure easily exceeds his expenditure.
It’s ok, Jeremy (H)unt is going to cut public spending even more to fund tax breaks ahead of the election
And it's criminal because he doesn't need to cut public spending to do it.
The whole tax cut job is lie upon a lie.
It doesn't work either. You need new money going in.
Getting more pessimistic about an early chance to get rid of these scumbags
we will know in a few weeks as they need 25 working days plus time to debate it, so with Easter in the way he'll have to announce it in s free weeks
a complete collapse in labours numbers might convince him but even then i think its incredibly unlikely he won't wait until the autumn. Hes got a plan dontcha know!
Encouraging everyone to believe that there will be a Spring general election and then not calling for one until the Autumn won’t do him any favours. He would be much better off discouraging talk of a May general election if he hasn’t yet made up his mind.
Rishi Sunak’s number one priority now has to be at the very least to avoid Tory electoral Armageddon, although no doubt in his dreams to deny Labour a working majority.
A few weeks ago I honestly believed he was holding out for Autumn. But I really don't think he can hold the rest of them in line that long. An early election would have been a 'threat' to many of them before but it's clear many are starting to relish the idea of becoming culture war shit-stirrers, whether or not they're still in the commons...
The threat of an early election only has any meaning now to MPs that haven't lined up a GBN or Tufton St gig...