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People are not good at thinking about actually being in the future (yes they understand you need a pension but they can’t actually see themselves as a pensioner) so nobody was overly bothered about policies 10 years out.
1 year out they will start to be bother but too late then and some of the infrastructure will be in place as government and private companies would actually start to build it knowing there will be guaranteed demand for it.
As Illustrated by:
With a 2030 deadline we’ve got 10 years to install all the infrastructure for on-street charging. Can anyone seriously see that happening?
I absolutely can see it happening, seven years of ramped up infrastructure and manufacturing investment pitched at beating the rest of the world to the finish line, but we da actually have to try. I can't understand why Rishi isn't all over it he could have created policies that led to a nice feeding trough for more private sector chums.
Instead all that this week has demonstrated is the lack of a plan and/or any ambition, we're headed towards a small state that sets itself completely achievable goals and then moves the goalposts before they've even attempted to hit them. This is what you get with a Tory finance ****er in No.10, who knows he's got an uphill battle at the polls next year...
Won’t the EV thing just be like the offshore wind bid licenses though?
All businesses know this lot are done and this is just a death rattle, so they’ll just carry on making plans, knowing there will be a far more forward-looking regime in power next year, so there’s little point building future plans around these reactionary denialist loons?
I’m sure there’s been plenty of meetings going on with Labour and the car manufacturers/wind turbine makers etc to signal a more friendly environment than these nutters are presently talking about as they shore up their core vote to try and avoid electoral decimation
As ive stated before im very pro EV and Im personally involved with installing public charge points, bring it on but people able to charge at home will be better off than people forced to use public chargers, charging at home will always be cheaper because:
1. Way cheaper installation.
2. No overheads to pay for.
3. No profit margin to pay for.
4. Ability to use cheap off peak and low demand flexible tariffs.
5. Can top up using solar and battery.
All great for those of us who can charge from home and can afford the installtion costs, particularly the solar.
For those who cant charge from home it will be more expensive per kWh and they are more likely to have lower incomes, its basic maths, on top of the kWh unit price with public charging you have to pay for:
1. The charger, even basic ones are more expensive, our 'simple' ones still have a router, a heater, a payment terminal and other proprietary gubbins in there your home charger doesnt.
2. Installation costs are much higher, there are civils works, a home charger generally screws to a wall, public chargers are sat on the ground and require ducting to get the cable to them.
3. There are more overheads with a public charger, my wages as department head, my maintenance engineers, our office costs, payment processing fees, monthly coms fees for the router, back end integration software fees, our vans, tools, replacement parts (public chargers break more frequently because the public use them).
4. Profit margin, were not a charity and usually the car park owner wants a cut as well.
5. You charge when you can or need to, not necessarily at 3am when demand is low and its windy, dont think public chargers have even considered dynamic pricing.
Hydrogen is coming, its part of the answer, Mercedes have a hydrogen fuel cell artic coming out in 2027 but its not alternative to solar for domestic use. It uses way more electricity to create per kWh of output and still needs to have an expensive manufacturing and distribution network built.
Yes ICE vehicles will still be around after the ban be it 2030 or 2035 but they will quickly disappear, manufacturers are already reducing the number of ICE vehicles they are making, restricting the ranges and engine types. Secondhand ICE prices will increase because demand will still be there but the pool of them will reduce. I reckon by 2040 owning an ICE vehicle will be quite difficult, lots of petrol stations will be gone, fuel prices will be up (less sales to cover the overhead) generic parts for engines will be more difficult find and will be more expensive. Ulez zones, higher taxes, increased insurance will all make ICE ownership.
Rishi's decision was pragmatic on the one hand, we will not be ready for full EV in 2030, it also plays well with the gammons. However our inability to hit 2030 is purely down to him and his partys failure to prepare.
I don’t think you understand basic economics. In 2030 the demand for ICE cars will still exist
It’s basic supply and demand economics.
You keep on trotting out this "basic economics" line but you're dodging basic economic questions, like:
Is the demand for ICE cars or just for cars? Cross-elasticity of demand between fossil fuel cars and other fuelled cars would be strongly positive, wouldn’t it, as they’re highly substitutable, surely?
There will be plenty of second hand EVs for people to buy.
Which you’re assuming will have the same demand and be at similar prices to current used ice cars. I guess we’ll have to see what happens as no one really knows. 🤷♂️
China have a big surplus of EVs thet are trying to offload thanks to their economic slowdown
they could end up forcing prices down (to the displeasure of our car makers)
don't think this policy uturn will effect marginals that much more for shoring up support in the shires.
knowing there will be a far more forward-looking regime in power next year
Your use of the word far is interesting. You have see the Starmer and Reeves show haven't you?
Have a look at Channel 4 news from last night and come back and tell me they are far more forward looking.
I came away from it not having a clue what they would actually do about anything at all other than be more stable and have more growth without actually explaining how.
dont think public chargers have even considered dynamic pricing.
Tesla do, I think.
Re Hydrogen, it might help certain applications like industry or maybe HGV but it's not happening for cars. Too many issues, that you appear not to know about.
Tesla do, I think.
Not much use to the 90% of the population who can’t afford to spend 40k+ on a car.
Second EVs, not sure they will be that practical. Batteries require replacing after a number of years, and that right there is the bulk of the cost of an EV.
I suspect car ownership will become more and more based on leasing cars, something I haven't done and don't really want to, but until batteries last longer and are serviceable I can't see another way for EVs to really work like the current second hand market does..
Who knows, it may just lead to less use of cars which is a bonus. People are far too reliant on them (me included) which is a big part of the problem.
Batteries require replacing after a number of years, and that right there is the bulk of the cost of an EV.
There will be a whole new business of refurbishing batteries in the future. Or you just except that the car you buy won’t be quite as efficient as when it was new. A battery that will get you 250 miles now , might in 10 years only get you 150 miles on a full charge. Still more than enough for most people on a day to day basis.
Oh of course, that is if the car hasn’t spontaneously combusted by then 🙄
<p style="text-align: center;">Who knows, it may just lead to less use of cars which is a bonus.</p>
its a good job the guy that never flies everywhere by helicopter is in charge or he'd be scrapping train lines all over the place (especially the north)
or indeed the guy that wouldn't have his local electricity grid upgraded to heat his new pool or he'd be scrapping insulation schemes for the poorest
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1705535871326330921?t=wlQbNTulPckLQuq0Z0ZAvQ&s=19
Rishi is now rumoured to be dropping HS2 to Manchester entirely. A few days before the Tory conference in...Manchester...he's really not a master tactician, is he, unless someone who doesn't like him is briefing early to cause him problems?
As for killing off the Home Efficiency Taskforce, that's just lunacy given the state of our housing stock. Getting homes better insulated is such an easy win, but I suppose it mainly benefits poor people, which is verboten.
Second EVs, not sure they will be that practical. Batteries require replacing after a number of years, and that right there is the bulk of the cost of an EV
An EV will tell you the state of the battery. What does an ice car tell you about the state of the engine? Or gearbox?
I was going to add 'it's just a ****ing car!' but actually it's just a much simpler and easier to maintain car! I can fully understand why people aren't on board with the idea though. 🙄
And a quick look at autotrader shows leafs starting at 4k.
he’s really not a master tactician, is he, unless someone who doesn’t like him is briefing early to cause him problems?
perhaps that’s the overall plan.
Screw the country up and get as much as they can out of it until the GE , then F off abroad and watch the next lot try to sort the mess out
This is just doubling down on the ULEZ stuff.
I mean I can see there is some debate around EV's, regarding cost infrastructure etc.
But who TAF could think insulating houses is a bad thing?????
Not much use to the 90% of the population who can’t afford to spend 40k+ on a [Tesla]
You don’t need to drive a Tesla to use a Tesla charger
Batteries require replacing after a number of years
I realise we have a whole separate thread for this but no, not true. On modern cars with good battery management (which is all of them) they will last the lifetime of the car. On the first generation cars, particularly Nissan Leafs, they did degrade quite a bit but mostly still work. They can occasionally fail like anything else though of course.
A battery that will get you 250 miles now , might in 10 years only get you 150 miles on a full charge
All evidence points to degradation being nowhere near that bad. There is mostly only data for Tesla because they've been around long enough, but they are looking at an average of 12% degradation after 200k miles. And that's old tech - everyone's been improving things since those cars came out.
And a quick look at autotrader shows leafs starting at 4k.
These are pretty crap though. They had 80 miles range new at best, some are probably down to 50 now on a good day so you're heavily compromised.
My old i3s lost no capacity in the battery over the three years I had it. When are you expecting them to need replacing and how old is the average ICE car before it's scrapped?
There's a huge amount of nonsense written about electric cars by people who don't want to like them and don't know very much about them either.
Saying that, the same could be said about immigrants, ULEZ, people on benefits, etc, thanks to Rishi and his chums.
And a quick look at autotrader shows leafs starting at 4k.
A highly probably indicator that confidence in buying a used EV is very low among the general public. I really don't know what all the defensiveness is about. All some of us are doing are pointing out the fact there's an awful lot of work to be done to persuade people that the transition to EVs won't cost them more and won't make their lives more difficult. I want the the transition to work but there's so much that needs to happen to make it successful and currently there's no plan besides a load of lazy assumptions that the market will deliver and everything will be ok.
he’s really not a master tactician, is he, unless someone who doesn’t like him is briefing early to cause him problems?
He's just being paid by the oil, gas and automobile lobbies.
Simple as that.
None of this is "tactics", not a lot of it is "economics" because it's going to cost far more to cancel HS2 than simply build it, far more to scrap insulation than just push ahead with it. He just doesn't give a shit. He'll be some sort of high ranking representative to BP/Shell etc within 5 minutes of being out of 10 Downing Street.
Problem is this is all feeding into an anti climate change, anti active travel narrative now. I'd break the swear filter and get a ban of I said what I wanted to about him. 🤬
I’d break the swear filter and get a ban of I said what I wanted to about him. 🤬
Get a water balloon filled with oil and lob it at him
'the most hated tax in Britain'*
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1705633051907133542?t=wgkwcDxAYgapD33wI97xAg&s=19
* if you're in the <5% that pay it
All some of us are doing are pointing out the fact there’s an awful lot of work to be done to persuade people that the transition to EVs won’t cost them more and won’t make their lives more difficult.
There's only a lot of work if you want every made up and easily disproven reason discussed and disseminated in a way that isn't going to potentially offend someone with a chip on their shoulder.
* if you’re in the <5% that pay it
That's be "all the wealthy Tories".
Planet is on fire, our homes are leaky as ****, there's no money to feed the kids or repair the schools but suddenly he's found the Magic Money Tree just in time for another electoral clarion call.
🤬🤬🤬
A highly probably indicator that confidence in buying a used EV is very low among the general public.
or confirmation that your position that EVs are only for rich people is total bollocks? make your mind up.
government's job is direction, set objectives. it's how the USA landed a man on the moon. set a target. it's not rocket science. 😉
Sunak is drawing up plans to slash inheritance tax, dubbed “the most hated tax in Britain”
Of course he is. Because the most pressing issue presently facing the UK is that the rich should be able to pass on their unearned wealth to their lazy, entitled, spoiled brattish offspring without paying any tax
Looks like it. He will be going down as one of the biggest losers for the tory party so may as well go big and get all his pet hates and financial stuff sorted out, i.e I expect inheritance tax to be costing his family rather a lot at some point in the future.
Won't last long though because Starmer the socialist will be along soon and bring in 100% inheritance tax just as it should be.
Feels like the country has taken several leaps backwards this week as the Tories adopt a scorched earth policy ahead of the election.
Question for accountant types - if I have a million shares in Infosys and then die, are those shares sold and capital gains tax paid before the proceeds being inherited by my 2 daughters? Or are the shares themselves passed on, with no cgt being paid, leaving my daughters to sell sufficient to pay the IHT?
Asking for a PM.
Ah but the share holder isn’t him and isn’t always necessary paying uk taxes other than when she feels like 🙂
They’ll also be living somewhere unaffected by global warming and won’t be affected by London becoming the new Venice 🙂
Ms Murty will retain her Indian citizenship and her non-dom status which, as the BBC revealed, allows her family to avoid paying inheritance tax in the UK - which at current valuation could amount to £280m.
Whilst Rishis playing PM she’s paying as it’s ‘fair’(and they got caught),can’t see that happening for long when he’s booted out of office.
The broader issue is - is it actually true that IHT is a double taxation if most of what is passed on is shares on which CGT has not been paid ?
IANATA
Did you pay tax on the income that you used to buy the shares? Or are they acquired by eg: options or some tax efficient vehicle.
I'd say the same for my house, that I plan to leave to my kids in time. Every single penny I've paid in repayments and interest has been with income that I've been taxed on. So in that respect it is like double tax. Not saying IHT should be abolished though, it's a fair example (above a threshold more so) of those that can afford to pay more in tax to support the less well off in society doing so.
Because the most pressing issue presently facing the UK is that the rich should be able to pass on their unearned wealth to their lazy, entitled, spoiled brattish offspring without paying any tax
'The rich' don't pay it anyway as it's laughably easy to avoid by taking advice from any half decent financial advisor.
It's an amazing example of something that gets a lot of people in a froth, but that affects hardly anyone, and those that it does affect could probably have avoided paying it anyway.
Interesting read (I've you're a saddo like me)...
Although value of IHT being paid is now, peak number of estates affected was 2006/7. Total value around £6bn which is not a huge amount in Govt terms and less than 4% of estates affected
Sunak is clearly doing this as it plays to the gallery at Tory conference and a perception in society that it's an unfair tax perpetuated by right wing papers. Also another unimportant wedge issue with Labour - it Labour say they will reverse then narrative of Labour tax burden etc etc
The rich’ don’t pay it anyway
Yep, it is the PAYE people that pay everything as we have no real choice for 'creative' accounting.
The rich will always find way around stuff which is why Starmer/Reeves banking money on non Dom changes is laughable. The recipients will just find a way around it so the extra income from it would be negligible.
Rich people like to stay rich and goes all out to ensure it stays that way.
So in that respect it is like double tax.
Same as VAT. In fact, money is taxed at various points in its journey. I don't think this is unusual.
You pay tax on your income then more tax depending on what you do with it. If you give it to someone, then this is simply another taxable activity. There are other non-taxable things you can do with it. If you don't do a taxable thing with it then you don't pay a second tax.
So in that respect it is like double tax.
THe problem with tax is that most people don't really understand what it's for. It's not there to raise money to pay for things, but to be used as a tool to redress imbalances in the economy, encourage specific behaviours in the spending public to direct money towards things we want to have more funds, and to discourage and mitigate destructive activities. Given that fact it's perfectly ok for tax to be levied multiple times whether that's VAT, IHT or something else.
I see Rishi is assuring himself of an even better reception than the Tory party usually get in Manchester by confirming that HS2 (surprise surprise!) won’t be going north of Birmingham
Just in case anyone was left who ever believed levelling up was ever anything more than an empty slogan.
Although value of IHT being paid is now, peak number of estates affected was 2006/7. Total value around £6bn which is not a huge amount in Govt terms and less than 4% of estates affected
It's still an unfunded tax cut of several billion - between about 6 and 8bn depending on which figures you believe.
Basically exactly what Liz Truss tried to do, create a load of unfunded cuts to tax.
With everything he’s coming out with at the moment, it seems he’s just as much in thrall to the Tufton Street loons as Truss.