He has already claimed that reforming the UK’s antiquated electoral system isn’t a priority for him.
That's vague enough to allow it to still happen.
He knows full well that his redefining of the Labour Party as a tory-lite party risks creating the need for another left-wing party which will challenge the current Tory narrative.
Right, but a large centre ex-centre-left party would naturally form a coalition with a true left wing party. That's how this stuff works.
I don't think that theory carries much weight.
Firstly we see how SKS has led a war on "the left" within the labour party, the nu labour project constantly shows no appetite for doing deals with progressives, they are not moving to the right to make room for progressive policies to be championed by others, they are doing so to stifle those voices.
Then we have the case of the libdems, who arguably had a manifesto to the left of labour, but stepped over their "natural" coalition party to go in with the tories instead.
Why should Sunak be there? Isn’t that the kind of thing we have the Royals for?
Oh FFS, the Starmer thread again.
Yes thats right chaps - its needs to be said sometimes
I know many of you don't want Starmers moving labour to be a party of the right and don't want brexit mentioned - tough!
You cannot ignore it and you cannot deny it.
There are threads for both those things.
Everyone apart from the same 5 loons stays well away from them because… well… because of the same 5 loons, competitively agreeing with one another in the shoutiest manner possible
Off you pop…
And both those things are pertinent to other discussions
Ignoring it or pretending it has not happened does not change things you know.
Why not pop over to the football thread and start talking about rugby? Technically they’re both sports, so it’s all pertinent…
Apparently…
He has already claimed that reforming the UK’s antiquated electoral system isn’t a priority for him.
That’s vague enough to allow it to still happen.
Well he didn't really have much choice other than to be vague, voicing outright opposition to proportional representation wasn't really an option when the Labour Party Conference has voted in favour of it.
The best he can do was to suggest that it isn't a priority for him. I do however agree that PR could still come from a Labour government though.
It certainly will not come from a Tory government!! Eventually the UK's electoral system will be hauled into the 21st century, the only real question is when.
Oh Christ! At the risk of getting involved in the Starmer debate; the vociferous opposition within Labour to PR comes from the union dinosaurs, who for reasons only known to themselves are dead against it
And here we are… another thread derailed yet again with the same tedious lot rattling on about how much they hate SKS and how everything is his fault 🙄
Starmer is against PR.
UNite is in favour of electoral reform
so wrong on both counts
Then go and discuss that on the Starmer thread
This a thread about Rishi Sunak, allegedly, and I’ll tell you one thing for sure… every MP and member and probably every voter of the party he represents are absolutely opposed to PR
You’ll find the Starmer thread off to your left. Have fun with the other four, won’t you…
Eventually the UK’s electoral system will be hauled into the 21st century, the only real question is when.
22nd century
Why? Its on this thread where PR was being discussed and you made two false statements about it 🙂
Look - we get you cannot cope with the cognitive dissonance of supporting a right wing brexiteer party 🙂
opposition within Labour to PR comes from the union dinosaurs, who for reasons only known to themselves are dead against it
You need to keep up to date with current affairs a tad better binners. The reason the PR motion was carried at the last Labour Party Conference was because the majority of trade unions now support it.
Public opinion has shifted too. Previously public opinion was opposed to PR:
51% now favour reform to the voting system for elections to the House of Commons, up from 27% in 2011 and 43% in 2017.
For the first time, a majority of Labour supporters (61%) favour electing MPs using proportional representation, up from 27% in 2011 and 47% in 2017.
The "dinosaur" trade unions reflect the opinions of their members..... ordinary members of the public.
Public opinion, including that of Labour voters, has changed with regards to PR.
And yet another thread derailment by the same usual spirit-crushingly tedious suspects is complete 🙄
Unite and UNISON dropped their opposition to PR last year. Rishi Sunak was not reported as being involved.
My money is on PR for the second house replacement for the Lords (can’t keep stuffing it to rebalance it) coming in the next 10 years. Elections for the commons likely 5 years after that at the earliest. Rishi Sunak unlikely to be in parliament to vote against either.
What odds can you get on Sunak losing his own seat at the next general election? Worth a flutter?
And yet another thread derailment by the same usual spirit-crushingly tedious suspects is complete
How complete...... will you never be able to use this thread again to criticise Rishi Sunak?
Avoid posting nonsense about trade unions being opposed proportional representation if you want to focus purely on Rishi Sunak. It is Keir Starmer who is opposed to PR.
Incidentally the way you get into a rant if anyone dares to make a remark which you perceive to be critical of the Labour leader reminds me of the blind loyalty of a cult follower.
He is really quite special to you, isn't he? 🙂
Here’s a report on the actual vote on PR at the Labour conference. The real one, as opposed to the weird fictional version of it that appears to exist in your head…
Unions vote down local Labour parties’ call to axe first past the post
The motion, calling for the next Labour government to replace first past the post with a form of PR, was submitted by more than 150 constituency Labour parties (CLPs), and was the second most popular issue for the conference
After an inconclusive show of hands in the conference hall in Brighton, a card vote showed just under 80% of CLP votes backing the motion. But the votes from affiliates – almost entirely comprising unions – were 95% opposed. The eventual result was nearly 58% against
But hey ho… don’t let anything as inconvenient as facts get in the way of the unhinged anti-Starmer ramblings that must apparently take over every single politics thread. You lot do seem to inhabit some kind of alternative universe 🙄
Anyway, this Rishi Sunak bloke…? The one the thread is meant to be about? He’s the prime minister apparently, not Keir Starmer? Doing a good job then? Everything tickity boo if it wasn’t for those fascist bastards presently leading the Labour Party?
Clearly Sunak is not doing a good job but neither is the person who is supposedly in a position to oppose all the shit Sunak is doing and because of that he continues to do all the shit he is doing, pretty much backed up by the future leader.
Yes back to Starmer again, are you seeing why he gets mentioned in the same thread now?
Anyway, back to the actual thread topic and an interesting analysis of Sunak and his clear disappointment with us as an electorate for failing to appreciate his obvious genius:
Powerless in the face of Britain’s crises, Rishi Sunak has now entered his self-pitying era
On some level, Sunak’s pained parent doling out hard truths persona is familiar from Thatcherite ideology: a morality tale in which self-sacrifice pays out. But Sunak delivers it with condescending impatience rather than sobriety, revealing something deeper about himself. It is hard to avoid the impression that here is a man who has eschewed a peaceful private life making even more exorbitant sums of money in finance in order to publicly serve – and is now annoyed that it’s all a bit more of a pain than he frankly has the patience for. The British people are not shareholders who he can placate with a PowerPoint presentation spelling out the financial picture, but people who have pesky feelings about being able to eat and house themselves, who are rightly making demands about an economic system that has failed them.
Anyway, back to the actual thread topic
My comment was on topic, it was about Sunak and how he can continue on his merry way. You may not like it - maybe post a hilarious image for the 197th time to try and not have to deal with what is actually happening?
It is hard to avoid the impression that here is a man who has eschewed a peaceful private life making even more exorbitant sums of money in finance in order to publicly serve – and is now annoyed that it’s all a bit more of a pain than he frankly has the patience for.
Johnson was (sort of) the same. No interest in the difficult parts of actually leading/governing although at least when he was Mayor he delegated stuff to mostly decent people to do while he ran around getting "IT lessons", some Olympic poncing around and dreaming of garden bridges.
Once he became PM, he didn't even bother to do that, it was all just too much like hard work and details which he had neither the patience nor the talent for.
He could have quite happily sat around writing total bollocks for the Telegraph on £250,000 a year but oh no.
Sunak seems to be permanently irritated that he can't just toss off some old bollocks he read in a management consultancy textbook and everything will miraculously sort itself out.
So he's his inherent laziness in common with Johnson, but for the rest of it he's more Liz Truss. Why bother with any policy or anything as difficult as that when you can just ponce around in private jets, fleet of photographers in tow, for the latest banal and pointless, but beautifully shot social media update
'Both party leaders agree that people’s expectations must be tempered, horizons narrowed. It speaks volumes about the direction of British politics that, as a general election looms, their job is finding more ways to promise nothing.'
Both
Here’s a report on the actual vote on PR at the Labour conference. The real one, as opposed to the weird fictional version of it that appears to exist in your head…
The "weird fictional version" which you claim exists only in my head was last year's Labour Party Conference.
This year in 2023, the conference which you extensively quote from was in 2021. Last year's Labour Party Conference (2022) thanks to backing from trade unions, voted in favour of proportional representation.
As I said earlier, you need to keep up to date with current affairs a tad better binners, especially if you are going to launch self-righteous rants.
Public opinion on PR has shifted. For the first time now the majority of Labour voters support PR, as do now the majority of trade unions.
The only thing now stopping PR becoming Labour Party policy is the subject of your unhinged adulation - Keir Starmer.
Course he doesn't, he's instrumental in it getting out of control in the first place and all the other cost of living issues and it's not like prices are falling, they're still going up so people are still getting worse off.
Seems the Torygraph is less than enamored with the current regime their rank hypocrisy knows no bounds :/
I spoke too soon about Rishi not going for the toe-curlingly embarrassing 'someone get me an England shirt so I can pretend I know what football is' moment
I should have known better, I suppose
https://twitter.com/MichaelTakeMP/status/1693526190122782828?s=20
He's so clueless that he even left the tags on the England top. Even Priti Patel remembered to take hers tags off, even though it still had all the folded creases on where it'd just come out of the packaging
“For my daughters, and for every girl in this country, you have made football something for them; you have made them feel they belong on the pitch. So – in a way – you’ve already brought football home."
“All that remains is to bring the trophy home too – and the whole nation is rooting for you... But whatever the result, I want you to know that you have already secured a lasting legacy: that every girl in this country will have equal access to all school sports, including football.”
About that legacy... is that a policy re-announcement...?
It's a long way from that policy for funding for "select schools" and awards for the few schools that do offer equal access, to achieving that access for... "every girl in this country".
Sunak really needs to come up with something fast ..... barges for asylum seekers and falling inflation doesn't seem to be cutting it, as the next general election slowly but relentlessly gets closer with every new day.
The very latest opinion poll:
https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1694025320628728128
https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1694026331493740942
I was surprised just how unpopular the Tories became under Liz Truss, I continue to be surprised how badly they are still faring under Sunak. The slick presentation created by image makers charging fat fees doesn't seem to be fooling voters.
Sunak really needs to come up with something fast
I really do think he's given up. I mean, you would, wouldn't you? You've no idea what you are doing, you're already minted, everyone hates you anyway, so what's the point?
I continue to be surprised how badly they are still faring under Sunak.
Well, image and sentiment aren't rational values that respond in a linear manner to stimulus. Once people have given up on you that's pretty much it. People aren't looking at the Tories' output and evaluating it versus Labour, even subconsciously. The idea that Tories are shit has become accepted in popular culture, and it will take a long time (or dramatic circumstances) for that to change. Like with Skoda.
Most people don't give a toss about politics, mainly as the 'they're all the same anyway' attitude is now all-pervasive. They only notice when this stuff imposes itself on their real lives by force.
So the Tory's have done 2 things that they simply aren't ever going to come back from.
Too many people experienced genuine hardship during covid, and were rightly appalled by footage of Boris and chums partying and basically mocking them as they couldn't even go to funerals or visit dying relatives.
The main thing though was Mad Lizzie and Kamikwasi's insane mini-budget. I'm convinced that people are so apathetic in this country, in the main, that you can do pretty much what you like as a party of government, but woe betide you if your actions put huge sums of money onto the mortgage repayments of Mr and Mrs Middle England
And rightfully so
Rishi can do what he likes he an bang on about post-covid-recovery and Vladimir Putin and blah, blah, blah... whatever... but people just aren't buying it and never will.
They just look at their back statements, look how much less money they have than they did 18 months ago and all they see in their head is this....
Lil' Rishi can try and disassociate himself from that as much as he likes, but he's up to his neck in it, so is on a hiding to nothing. Mad Lizzie started the whole economic debacle, but the decline in peoples real incomes and living standards has continued on the same trajectory under his watch and shows no signs of abating.
The dead cats of barges and Rwanda just aren't going to cut it when Mr and Mrs suburban semi-detached can't go out for a meal on Friday night any more because their mortgage payment is now 900 quid a month more than it was this time last year
I was surprised just how unpopular the Tories became under Liz Truss
You are in a very small minority there (outside Tory party members).
Most people don’t give a toss about politics, mainly as the ‘they’re all the same anyway’ attitude is now all-pervasive.
Oh and I wonder why that is?
Because it is *practically* the same - there is no push back from the hit duo of Reeves and Starmer. The 90s shit show that is a lame Thatcherite cover version.
Mad Lizzie started the whole economic debacle, but the decline in peoples real incomes and living standards has continued on the same trajectory under his watch and shows no signs of abating.
No she didn't. The BoE were already raising rates. Do people even check the facts?
Economic decline has been about for a long long time. Only just recently stopped a few Centrist's Ski trips - so the likes of Carol Vorderman are now piping up.
For the record - the Tory party are now bullshitting down the national debt (national credit) again with a view to pushing the same type of tax cuts that Truss forced upon the rest of us.
Too many people experienced genuine hardship during covid, and were rightly appalled by footage of Boris and chums partying and basically mocking them as they couldn’t even go to funerals or visit dying relatives.
Good point - I think that affair was unprecedented, I'm not sure it has any parallels?
Mad Lizzie started the whole economic debacle
Kind of, but also kind of not. Don't forget, everyone knew she was shit, but the reason we got shit candidates was that no-one with any intelligence wanted the job, they are all staying away from the shit-show that started with Brexit.
Because it is *practically* the same – there is no push back from the hit duo of Reeves and Starmer. The 90s shit show that is a lame Thatcherite cover version.
That is because the public finances are in such a bad way that Starmer and Reeves cannot possibly do anything now. Shadow something or other minister was on C4 news last night trotting out same shit as a reason that Labour probably won't be able to make the lives and outcomes of kids in care just a bit better although they would love to, honest.
That is because the public finances are in such a bad way that Starmer and Reeves cannot possibly do anything now
I'm sorry that's simply not true at all in any way shape or form (although yeah they're not in power but they're talking up fiscal credibility NOW. Reading Reeves' tweets is a diabolical experience of fragmented 90's Wall Street chat)
Public finances are a matter of political will/choices. They don't use/need the money from the private sector in the first place.
The private sector moves money around that was spent into prior existience. Without that spending there will be no growth anyway. Any growth follows the prior spending of targetted government money which is exactly why we have next to no growth now. (Not that I'm an advocate of limitless growth.)
Think of it like this - currently the government is a net payer of interest to wealthy people - And yet the public finances are in bad health!
I had a cold call from 3rd party this morning on behalf of the BoE asking why business aren't borrowing money. Yep you can't make it up.
I was surprised just how unpopular the Tories became under Liz Truss
You are in a very small minority there (outside Tory party members).
So how come you didn't predict that the opinion polls would be showing 50% support for Labour, and half of that for the Tories, if it was that obvious to you, and apparently the vast majority, that the Tories would be that unpopular?
It is easy to say "I knew that would happen" after the event, but no one, no one, predicted just how unpopular the Tories would be under Liz Truss.
Including you.
There’s a whole thread about how shit she’d be as PM, bad for the country, self destructive for her party, and that she’d be sacked as leader in a few short months as support for her party would inevitably fall still further. Utterly unsuitable and completely out of her depth in the role. Lots of people pointing all that out, including me. She was a deluded joke from day one. Just a few voices telling us how we were underestimating her. No hindsight required, it was bloody obvious from the start to (nearly) everyone.
Oh ipredicted it which is why I wanted her as pm for longer
It was completely obvious what was going to happen with Truss