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@binners Thanks bud; I took a deep breath and checked it out. Cooper was indeed surgical. But bloody hell, although Starmer had the content, his delivery is like, well, a cardboard box left out in the rain beside the bin.
Starmer had the content, his delivery is like, well, a cardboard box left out in the rain beside the bin.
His delivery is like a badly dubbed 70's martial arts movie.
Rajiv Menon KC is representing Childrens rights organisations
Cheers. Sunak couldn't give a crap about kids going hungry unless they were his kids.
His delivery is like a badly dubbed 70’s martial arts movie.
Whilst I agree, he does have to be carefull not to use the same inflammatory rhetoric that the conservatives do, as the second he does, he'll be pounced upon by the tories and the pro-tory press.
He could tow a better line with his language, and find a happy medium, but then he'd be labled centrist, or worse, a spinless & duplicitous fence sitter like Corbyn. He has to be very careful what he says, but he's in danger of falling faul to public perception...
But if he doesn't take some sort of firm line, he could equally fall foul to the wet cardboard analogy.
Regardless of what Starmer wants Starmers Labour to look like, he's just along for the ride at the moment.
Some dimwit Tory MP is being savaged by Victoria Derbyshire on Newsnight being faced with the obvious question
If tens of thousands of people are coming in small boats each year and even if you get this through, 100 of them will be sent to Rwanda, how is that a deterrent?
He didn’t have an answer
I was bemused to notice Andrew Rosindell mentioned as paired off for the Rwanda vote. It seems charitable of Labour to do this.
Some dimwit Tory MP is being savaged by Victoria Derbyshire on Newsnight being faced with the obvious question
If tens of thousands of people are coming in small boats each year and even if you get this through, 100 of them will be sent to Rwanda, how is that a deterrent?
He didn’t have an answer
I mean, I'm no master economist or mathematician, I wouldn't even call myself a statistician...
...But even I can see how bat-shit crazy all of this is.
1+boat=bananna
But what about Labour?
What about Labour - they're a party of right wingers. Only a few steps behind the Tories
Kendall and Streeting have been doing their level best to be keep that one going in the last few days.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1733787778549211449?t=BzUU9z69eo9u8dzq-sRyJg&s=19
https://twitter.com/JujuliaGrace/status/1733823757909733497?t=QwuTdgNWL1k28VLNE3cA7g&s=19
Streeting really is a pissant. Doing the job of Tories everywhere.
Regardless of what Starmer wants Starmers Labour to look like, he’s just along for the ride at the moment.
Which makes him culpable in the shift to the right. But we all know that - the evidence has been there for a while.
MrsMC was watching Good Morning Britain - Ed Balls was giving James Cleverly a roasting about courts not being able to make decisions based on facts. Cleverly must be the most wrongly named minister in history.
Facebook is now serving me (well only one so far to be fair) posts with pictures of Kigali, Rwanda, looking like an attractive tourist destination.
Coincidence? Or just the algorithm detecting that I've clicked on one two many Rwanda stories on the Guardian website?
But what about Labour?
Only Conservatives (and an independent) voted for the bill. Labour MPs voted against. Labour have made it clear that if they win the next election, the Rwanda scheme will end. Not that it’ll ever really start, it’s just millions of pounds being spend to look tough.
If tens of thousands of people are coming in small boats each year and even if you get this through, 100 of them will be sent to Rwanda, how is that a deterrent?
Exactly, if people are risking their lives to get to the UK the 1 in a 100 chance of getting set to Rwanda is hardly a deterrent and I would fancy these odds in any choice I was making/forced to make.
Facebook is now serving me (well only one so far to be fair) posts with pictures of Kigali, Rwanda, looking like an attractive tourist destination.
Sunak said it was. He even signed a bit of paper to say it was safe and welcoming and didn't have any issues with human rights abuses.
So it must be true.
The PM of the United Kingdom wouldn't lie to the people.
I mean, there was one of them who lied a bit - sometimes.
Oh, hang on a minute...
I got to about half way through that video ^^ before having to turn it off in anger.
Smarmy weaselly little shit.
Someone needs to ask him if there is there anything that he *can* recall?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67690287
Anyway, keep talking about Rwanda, nothing to see here, everything is fine in the UK... Look, immigrant!
"Haunt" him..? That would require him to actually have a conscience. Evidence suggests otherwise; he probably sees this as a success, for batting away all of the questions effectively. As he will define it..
The twitter/X compilation of sunak’s memory failures...
There's another one here:
https://twitter.com/nathan_oswin/status/1734189700813132273?t=lm5KhDyHx416zrwKjuUf1g&s=19
^^ Poor little mite. I do feel so sorry for him. 😐
A good article in todays Guardian on how he's now essentially Theresa May. A hostage to the ERG wingnuts. This is entirely a mess of Sunaks own making. He made this rod for his own back when he appointed the Home Secretary who'd been sacked 6 days earlier
The whole spectacle has been grimly reminiscent of Theresa May’s doomed efforts to steer her Brexit deal through the Commons. Then, too, underlying questions of what a sensible policy might look like were submerged in a froth of fantasy politics. The framing of the argument was warped by Tory hardliners applying impossible tests of ideological purity and demanding concessions that were incompatible with a duty to govern responsibly.
Don't have to look far to see a similarly forgetful (ex)party leader.
https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1513593474901331974?t=A8K5ZYewR2WqwoEK8fhm1Q&s=19
^^ Poor little mite. I do feel so sorry for him. 😐
^^ Poor little mite. I do feel so sorry for him. 😐
Sunak just bragged in PMQs about the economy growing. Anyone noticed?
He mentioned tax cuts too. I must have missed those as well
Taxes are going up slightly less than previously planned next year. Pretend "tax cut" election bribe for the right wing rags to use as a headline (just don't look at the details).
It's not about "being a dump", it's about very recent history as regards human rights. One of the reasons the current administration there don't want our government trying to totally disregard international human rights for a scheme they are attached to. They are seeking to improve their country's reputation, while we have MPs chomping at the bit to do the opposite for the UK.
That’s good news that the Rwanda policy is unpopular. Perhaps people think Rwanda is a dump
I don't think that's it. Either they have to send all asylum seekers to Rwanda in order to please the right or they have to send no-one there. But sending a small number of people there fools and pleases no-one...
1 to 100 probably isn't far off the chances of dying on the crossing so Rwanda probably looks quite nice (and warm) in comparison.
I'm now at the point where I actually want them to get the Rwanda policy through just to see the head explode of the hard-of-thinking.
They'll watch and cheer that first plane taking off with 100 asylum seekers on then ask 'so how many planes a day will be taking off from now, now that you've finally got it all though?' to be told 'erm... thats it. We may be able to send another one next year, depending on how this one works out'
In other news, the man who took his own life on the Bibby Stockholm yesterday was named as 32 year old doctor Michael Essouma
The asylum seeker who killed himself on the Bibby Stockholm yesterday was Mickael Emmaous, a doctor from war torn Cameroon, specialising in infectious diseases and autoimmune infections. But the Tories would rather pay millions to ship him off to Rwanda than allow him to live, work, and use his skills and qualifications here in our failing NHS. Does his case not demonstrate the futility, cruelty and utter stupidity of this vile dog whistle policy?
from Grauniad comments though can't find verification as of yet though if true 😕
he really doesn't do compassion and empathy does he!
Setting aside the lack of compassion or empathy, he has no political acumen, he’s walked straight into that trap.
It's not far off his inquiry performance - it's like he's got a prepared response to what he thinks the question is going to be, so he says that. Regardless of what the question actually was.
Like a cog has just moved that says "it's your turn to talk now" and he responds with the only pre-programmed answer that he has.
Can't put fuel in a car; can't use a hammer; can't use a chip and pin card; can't actually listen to a question, consider the answer and then come out with it.
It's honestly like he's an alien being, trying to negotiate an unfamiliar planet and mostly sort of blundering by but with occasional howlers.
He's more Wallace in the wrong tousers.
An interesting comment by the soon-to-be former member of parliament for Don Valley Nick Fletcher:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-fletcher-mp-rwanda-debate-b2463273.html
"We are turning parts of our community into a ghetto... you have a 12 hour waiting list at A&E, & the reason why the waiting list is so long, is because people don't speak English in these places anymore”.
However someone on Wikipedia did their homework and apparently:
The population in Don Valley is 94% UK-born and 96% Caucasian, while English is the mother tongue of 97% of his constituents
So it turns out that long NHS waiting times has nothing to do with language problems. It might have something to do with Tory governments though.
It’s not far off his inquiry performance – it’s like he’s got a prepared response to what he thinks the question is going to be, so he says that
He does seem to have a bunch of keyword=>responses where as soon as he hears the keyword he ignores everything before and after and launches into his spiel.
Before finishing it off with a randomly selected attack phrase to try and hide that.
Kramer
Free MemberHe’s a man who’s never known failure* isn’t he?
He might have known it but he now can't recall knowing it.
Seems Starmer has found Sunaks button
He’s a tiny, pathetic little psychopath
All this negative stuff about Tories, here's something a bit more positive:
I didn’t want to start yet another political thread but…
A friend of mine came back to the UK to visit friends and family for the first time since he moved to a warm sunny country in 2019. Before that we - our group of friends - had heated conversations becuase he was a stalwart believer that Boris was worth putting up with becuase Brexit was best for this countrys economy and progress. He isn’t racist or objectionable to immigration - he’s of dual immigrant parent nationality born and raised here, and he isn’t stupid either. <br /><br />
last night he sent a friends group WhatsApp message; “I’m sitting in Stansted eating a £7 soup being rushed out of the restaurant full of people look angry or suspicious with everyone, watching the cold and wet out of the window, after a nose to tail long drive of pending road rage to get here. This place has become a miserable mess, I’m not coming back.”
🤷♂️
Sounds like Brexit was the right choice. For his personal exit from Britain, I mean.
Yeah but typical of the ex-pats he maintains he is not, he voted and left us all to it. It’s easy for him to visit, slag off the result of his voting but piss off back onto a sunny beach - a point made quiet elegantly and friendly to him by one of the others.
A friend of mine came back to the UK to visit friends and family for the first time since he moved to a warm sunny country in 2019. Before that we – our group of friends – had heated conversations becuase he was a stalwart believer that Boris was worth putting up with becuase Brexit was best for this countrys economy and progress.
Brexit must seem like a much better idea when you don't actually have to put up with the consequences personally.
Sort of offends me the selfishness of ex-pats who voted for Brexit, took advantage and pulled the drawbridge up for their children/grandchildern.
As an Immigrant to Spain myself.
We really shouldn't call them ex-pats any more, particularly to their faces. They are, as you say, economic migrants.
Thanks for the update Klunk.
so another byelection then ?
The message he gave to the undercover reporters was “that he was corrupt and ‘for sale’, and that so were many other members of the house”, the committee’s report said. “He communicated a toxic message about standards in parliament. We condemn Mr Benton for his comments, which unjustifiably tarnish the reputation of all MPs.”
35 day suspension for that?
Surely he should be facing prosecution and potentially a custodial sentence?
Sort of offends me the selfishness of ex-pats who voted for Brexit, took advantage and pulled the drawbridge up for their children/grandchildern.
As an Immigrant to Spain myself.
It's made life hell for my brother in Holland. Now very much a second class citizen while he tries to sort out residency on a permanent basis. He did all the required actions asked of him by the local authorities, but the otherside of Brexit is a very different picture.
Heres a heartwarming Christmas message from Jonathan Gullis
https://twitter.com/MichaelTakeMP/status/1735218284121686154?s=20
so another byelection then ?
I'm on a trainline to Blackpool. If there is a byelection, I'll be trying to find a way to help Chris Webb's campaign in person.
35 day suspension for that?
Surely he should be facing prosecution and potentially a custodial sentence?
For the majority of my life I was naive enough to honestly believe we are all the same under the law.
I now see that mindset as utterly delusional.
Look at Baroness Michelle Mone as one example of many. She'll never see a single day in court let alone jail.
It seems we've, for quite some time, had a political 'class' who are literally bred with a sense of entitlement and exceptionalism which means they firmly believe that the rules and conventions of our society simply don't apply to them. They know that they can do what the hell they like with complete impunity.
Just look at our last 4 illustrious Prime Ministers David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak to see the living embodiment of this entrenched air of superiority
Why shouldn't I use my contacts to lobby my old parliamentary mates in return for huge sums of cash from dodgy sources?
Why shouldn't I take publicly funded private jets and helicopters like other people take taxi's?
Why shouldn't I have 5 photographers follow me around, at public expense, to constantly pander to my monstrous ego?
Why shouldn't I have someone pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to decorate my flat?
Why shouldn't I hand out multimillion pound public procurement contracts to my mates, without having to answer to anybody?
But the worst thing about this otherness is that it fuels the utter contempt they feel for the 'little people' who don't enjoy the enormous privileges their seat on the gravy trains affords them. They hate us and feel like they have a divine right to rule over us because every element of their hyper-cosseted lives tells them they are just 'better' than the great unwashed who they constantly lord it over
Just look at the pompous, self-regarding preening thats been going on this week with utter morons like Mark Francois and Bill Cash, absolutely revelling in their hideous self-importance. None of them could give a flying **** about anything other than their own self-promoting agendas. The idea of them seeing themselves as 'public servants' or having any sense of public duty is now absolutely laughable
It seems we’ve, for quite some time, had a political ‘class’ who are literally bred with a sense of entitlement and exceptionalism which means they firmly believe that the rules and conventions of our society simply don’t apply to them. They know that they can do what the hell they like with complete impunity.
Not having reached binner-esque levels of rage today - yet - I feel I should point out that not all politicians are like this, and not all who are like this are Tory.
But most of them are.
Just look at the pompous, self-regarding preening thats been going on this week with utter morons like Mark Francois and Bill Cash, absolutely revelling in their hideous self-importance. None of them could give a flying **** about anything other than their own self-promoting agendas. The idea of them seeing themselves as ‘public servants’ or having any sense of public duty is now absolutely laughable
What fascinates me is how broken a significant proportion of British people are that they keep voting for these conceitful braggarts.
…no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned, they are lower than vermin.
Aneurin Binners 😉
I feel I should point out that not all politicians are like this
Thankfully you're absolutely right. I have known our former local labour MP and present parliamentary candidate pretty well for years. He is the very personification of a public servant who dedicates his life to making life better for people in this constituency. He's a lovely bloke and when this gang of crooks finally succumb and call an election I'll be doing everything I can to get him back into parliament.
But I look at our present Tory MP (majority 100 votes) who arrived in 2019 and I see a typical corrupt, self-serving shyster who I doubt could find his constituency on a map. Its not difficult to see how he fitted right in to the Tory party of Boris Johnson. He'll be gone soon enough, thankfully
35 day suspension for that?
Surely he should be facing prosecution and potentially a custodial sentence?
For the majority of my life I was naive enough to honestly believe we are all the same under the law.
We are - I think technically that lobbying is not illegal, in many cases using the right firm of PR consultants or charity or whatever is the right way to get to decision makers - networking, etc. Rather it's the abuse of the access that being an MP gives you that breaks parliamentary standards and so while not criminal breaks a code of conduct.
Hamilton didn't get 'done' for Cash for Questions, iirc; he got done (or settled at the 11th hour) for claiming that the paper that printed the stories about C4Q were libelling him. Which they weren't because everything they wrote about him was true.
Mone on the other hand - while innocent until proven guilty, etc., it'll be interesting to see whether there was any knowledge that the kit being offered wasn't up to standards and yet they did it anyway, becauser that would be fraud and that is criminal.
A Commons Standards Committee report said he had given the message "he was corrupt and 'for sale'".
and this
Misconduct in public office is a common law offence: it is not defined in any statute. It carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. The offence requires that: a public officer acting as such; wilfully neglects to perform his or her duty and/or wilfully misconducts him or herself; to such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public’s trust in the office holder; without reasonable excuse or justification.
The offence is widely considered to be ill-defined and has been subject to recent criticism by the Government, the Court of Appeal, the press and legal academics.
Mone on the other hand – while innocent until proven guilty, etc., it’ll be interesting to see whether there was any knowledge that the kit being offered wasn’t up to standards and yet they did it anyway, becauser that would be fraud and that is criminal.
They're as bent as a 9 pound note.
Shameless opportunistic criminals. They saw the £££ signs and that was it.
Same as these MPs who offer their lobbying services for cash. Same as Hancock and Kwarteng who were caught in that newspaper sting offering their consultancy services for £10,000 a day.
****ing corrupt scum.
Not much of a Rwanda bounce for Rishi Sunak, what's going on?
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48175-voting-intention-con-22-lab-44-12-13-dec-2023
As an aside: practically no-one, influential or not, gets prosecuted for bribery or fraud in this country. Compared to the actual number of offences, it's statistically insignificant. That doesn't mean you should let people walk if they're guilty...
Sort of offends me the selfishness of ex-pats who voted for Brexit
UK citizens living abroad (ie outside UK and Gibraltar) were not eligible to vote in the Brexit referendum.
Not much of a Rwanda bounce for Rishi Sunak, what’s going on?
If you want full fat racism then you've got Richard Tyce and the Brexit/Reform/Fire all immigrants into the sun party. Would anyone bet against the nicotine-stained man-frog returning to that particular fold before the next election?
The point being that if you're that way inclined then you're not going to go for the semi-skimmed, namby-pamby, pinko wokeness of Rishi Sunak, a man who won't even take the UK out of the ECHR or use submarines to torpedo the small boats in the channel
That polling shows them presently at 11%. They've already said that theres no way they'll be falling for the same trick Boris pulled on them last time and withdrawing candidates and they will definitely stand candidates in every constituency.
Everyone else who isn't a complete maniac can see that so far Rwanda has cost 300 million quid of taxpayers money and theres no sign of it offering any solutions to anything other thank the bank balance of the Rwandan government
Rwanda has cost 300 million quid of taxpayers money
I'm waiting for the penny to drop amongst the dimmer sections of the Conservative party that there may be an ulterior motive for the Rwandan government's insistence that any deportation mechanism must comply with international law.
Its pretty apparent to anyone with anything between their ears - thus discounting Cruella, Honest Bob, Penfold and all the other ERG idiots - that the Rwandan government are going to drop this whole thing like a hot turd at the first available opportunity, without a single asylum-seeker ever getting on a plane.
The first available opportunity will be whatever hardline nonsense Cruella, Honest Bob, Penfold and all the other ERG idiots demand in the new year (withdrawing from the ECHR seems the most likely raving-fruitloop idea)
Then its so long and thanks for all the fish.