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The Supreme Court decides that Rwandan government cannot be trusted to comply with international law, based on the fact that they have previously ignored international law.
So the Home Secretary pops over to Rwanda and flies back to announce that there is nothing to worry about as he has sorted everything out - the Rwandan has assured him that they can definitely be trusted.
James Cleverley has played a proper blinder. Top quality politician.
New Rwanda asylum treaty deals with Supreme Court concerns, says James Cleverly
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67627696
The Supreme Court, the UK's highest court, rejected the policy on the grounds that it could not be guaranteed the Rwandan government would honour a principle of international law known as non-refoulement.
Nothing new or revelatory in that^^^
It doesn't change the facts as determined by the highest court in the land.
It does nothing to change the opinion of the majority that cleverly is incompetent but can read any script convincingly.
It does nothing to address the whole asylum seeking issue.
It panders to committed tory voters.
Next.
I can imagine the chat at the Supreme Court…
It’s ok lads, Jimmy popped over to Rwanda this morning, had a chat with them and apparently it’s all fine now.
Great stuff! Best get those flights booked for the morning then. Job jobbed! Nice one Jimbo!
So have we done the bit where Cleverly is looking around a visitor centre full of sculls that were killed during the genocide?
Inconvenient.
Or... That even after asking what day it was, he signed the visitor book 6th November?
What a details guy 😁
"Rishi Sunak faces up to 10 ministers quitting if he adopts a hardline approach on Rwanda and uses emergency legislation to circumvent the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)."
And for those who still believe, thanks to his slick presentation skills, that Austerity Dave isn't on the right of the Tory Party:
On Tuesday, during his first monthly question time in the House of Lords, Lord Cameron, the Foreign Secretary, said Parliament should be able to pass legislation that blocked ECHR judgments that the Government disagreed with.
In contrast to the left of the Tory Party:
However, Matt Warman, a leading member of the One Nation group, said: “Overriding the ECHR is a red line for a number of Conservatives. Protecting and reforming institutions and upholding human rights should be the cornerstone of any Conservative government.”
I don't believe David Cameron has a single personally-held belief that he wouldn't jettison in a heartbeat if it suited him.
As for Rishi... Its over an issue as stupid as the Rwanda policy that the Tory party might finally tear itself apart. He has completely painted himself into a corner over this one and has manoeuvred himself into a position where he can't win.
I don't doubt for a second that, in order to win the leadership election he assured Braverman and her associated nutjobs that he'd see this policy through, no matter what it took, even withdrawing from the ECHR and now thats what they're demanding. Not least because he agrees with them. Despite the slicker presentation, he's as swivel-eyed as the rest of them.
Unfortunately for him, and thankfully for the rest of us, there are still enough Tory MPs who are sane enough to realise the huge real-world implications of doing something as absolutely mental as withdrawing from or suspending the ECHR. It'd throw hand grenades into the Good Friday Agreement, the devolved governments and, overnight, make us complete international pariahs, who's only fellow travellers would be Russia and Belarus. Great company to be in!
The main problem is though, as has been pointed out by everyone with even a passing legal knowledge and in detail by the Supreme Court judgement... its won't make a blind bit of difference. There are all manner of other legally binding international treaties and agreements that would still render deportation to Rwanda illegal. Its not just the ECHR. Is he going to tear all those up too? Then what?
The whole Rwanda policy was weapons grade idiocy from day one and it'd be more than fitting if this is the hill that the Tory party chooses to die on
Genuine question: does withdrawing from ECHR mess up the Good Friday Agreement?
Forget Rwanda, Rishi's got big problems coming his way from Johnson at the covid inquiry. He's not going to pass up this chance for revenge by painting Sunak as the guy who wanted to let people die to save the economy.
does withdrawing from ECHR mess up the Good Friday Agreement?
Yes, The GFA uses the ECHR as the final arbiter, with things like early release for paramilitaries and rights for citizens for appeal to a higher (and independent) court. It essentially resolved difficulties regarding perception of partisan courts. It also enshrined Human rights legislation through a more robust Equalities Commission, and allowed British and Irish citizens to claim either UK or Irish citizenship without discrimination. Over half a million residents in NI hold Irish passports.
Rishi is now watching your bank account; NSFW
They choose today to respond to the Hillsborough report? After 7 years?
They're just taking the piss now, aren't they?
braverman's putting the boot in too
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1732380389660872706?t=8ofLfv6hVkHNAr25oe_e5A&s=19
https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1732432579347796242
Oh FFS, just give up and call an election.
Today Braverman sat in the same seat in the commons that Geoffrey Howe sat in when he stood up and made his famous resignation speech that brought down Thatcher
Talk about getting ideas above your station and a ludicrously over-inflated idea of your own importance?
Her and Lil Rishi are political pygmies but they're both so arrogant and self-regarding they can't even see it
the Rwandan government appears to he saying we're a bit too fash
https://twitter.com/JackElsom/status/1732451749594648628?t=kCS-11q2HKWkTJ0asF-sPA&s=19
Apparently Honest Bob is about to resign
Well nobody saw that coming eh?
Jesus! Even their pathetic infighting and posturing is so boringly predictable that anyone could have scripted it 3 weeks ago
Just call an election - a general one, not another leadership one - and lets get this whole sorry charade over and done with
yup honest bob doing a runner
the nutters really are trying to bring down Sunak
imagine getting booted out as PM over something as ridiculous as the Rwanda policy!!! (not saying sunak will be booted out surely most Tories know how thats going to go down with the public)
https://twitter.com/CatNeilan/status/1732458535265452505?t=XdS6NPQQFexTg4_vMUjZTQ&s=19
They just look tired. And every time they try and come up with a new policy, it does nothing to improve the polls.
He just needs to call a GE and get the whole sorry charade over.
They choose today to respond to the Hillsborough report? After 7 years?
A point just made on Five Live by one of tbe families
And after 7 years they’ve watered all the recommendations down so the whole thing is essentially meaningless anyway
Why doesn’t Rishi just go to Anfield and piss on the Hillsborough memorial?!
Every time I think I can’t despise them more they come up with something
the Rwandan government appears to he saying we’re a bit too fash
It really is something when the Rwandan Government is paying more attention to international law than the UK Government... 😳
I wonder if they pull out if the deal citing our breaches of international law, do they get to keep the £140m? That'd be amazing. £140m for doing **** all! Conservatives - the party you can trust with the economy.
imagine getting booted out as PM over something as ridiculous as the Rwanda policy!!! (not saying sunak will be booted out surely most Tories know how thats going to go down with the public)
I am starting to shift my opinion on that. After all we cant do bugger all until election time so they might figure get rid of him and go all out nuts until then. I think most are feeling they have sod all chance any so might as well go all out.
Being reported the excuse he has given for us not breaking international law is because Rwanda refused to join in. What an awesome excuse.
I wonder if they pull out if the deal citing our breaches of international law, do they get to keep the £140m? That’d be amazing. £140m for doing **** all! Conservatives – the party you can trust with the economy.
Yup they do. Since they arent being paid to take the refugees they are just getting some entirely unrelated aid because, you know, reasons.
Its a figleaf on the UK side and a great profit opportunity on the Rwandan side.
Home Secretary James Cleverley didn’t actually know if his immigration minister (who wasn’t in parliament for his Rwanda statement) had actually resigned or not
Could it get any more farcical?
Why doesn’t Rishi just go to Anfield and piss on the Hillsborough memorial?!
Yep, the timing stinks, as per. Liverpool playing in Sheffield this evening as well.
34 years, and Tories still don't want to face up to their culpability or responsibility.
Liverpool doesn’t vote Tory so they don’t care, I expect.
In other news, I t’s amazing how they can turn even the resignation of a minister into a ****ing pantomime.
“He’s resigned over Rwanda!”
“Oh no he hasn’t!”
“Oh yes he has!”
So obviously he and Cruella have decided to go for broke before Rishi loses the election and see if fascism appeals to enough of the electorate at the general election?
The next few days should be interesting. It wouldn’t surprise me if Cruella has nowhere near the support she thinks she’s got.
I’m sure the whips will presently be asking ‘you want to have a leadership election now? Seriously?’
That may not stop them though
Who knows with this gang of wingnuts?
I think he’s thin skinned enough that if they threaten him with a leadership challenge he might just call a snap GE, on the basis of getting a personal mandate, or at least taking them all down with him.
Rwanda is the new no deal Brexit.
It’s clearly a shit idea that won’t ever work. But it’s being pursued as some sort of pure ideology that must be made to work regardless of the costs
Bang on! All the headbangers keep repeating the ‘sovrinti’ word again. That never ends well
Any news on what happened at the 1922 this evening?
Any news on what happened at the 1922 this evening?
Normal 'Back me, or we all go down' bollocks.
Still laughing at how no-one really appears to give a shit about Jenrick spitting the dummy.
At least he's got more time to dream up ways to make life slightly worse for desperate children who have travelled thousands of miles from home.
Jenrick is the same immoral ****er that ignored UNESCO as well as local democracy in granting planning in a world heritage site buffer zone, in exchange for a bung of dollari into the party coffers.
I'd rather trust a snake. Snakes are at least honourable.
Jenrick is the same immoral **** that ignored UNESCO as well as local democracy in granting planning in a world heritage site buffer zone, in exchange for a bung of dollari into the party coffers.
And not even for a decent bung. Was an absolute bargain as normal with the tories who unlike most corrupt politicians around the world havent learned the basics of seeing what its worth being selling it.
Any news on what happened at the 1922 this evening?
according to sky MPs seemed quite jolly, rees-mogg was pleased with Sunak, but after honest bob resigned he decided the bill eas no good - this is pretty standard for current Tory legislation, the brexity loons all tell each other its great until some pesky experts come along and point out all the holes
lil rishi taking the piss out of honest bob
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1732504304626352395?t=9vZAPAy7vVrcWX74UkcMlw&s=19
Didn't have Rwanda showing us the way in terms of observance of international law on my 2023 bingo card.
Is it possible that Sunak/Cleverly actually asked Rwanda to come out in favour of International Law/ECHR to depth charge the lunatic fringe?
I did wonder about that dantsw13. Possible I guess.
Is it possible that Sunak/Cleverly actually...
I really doubt it. This lot plays seagull not 4d chess.
Is it possible that Sunak/Cleverly actually asked Rwanda to come out in favour of International Law/ECHR to depth charge the lunatic fringe?
I think thats exactly what he was up to
I wonder if that's a big part of why jenrick quit, well that & hes a slimy ambitious scumbag in a safe tory seat that's thinking about what happens after they lose the next GE & wants to position himself as a potential leader
the next 10 months of this lame duck government is going to be about MPs fighting like rats to line their pockets
lil rishi taking the piss out of honest bob
And totally not understanding the Supreme Court decision. Still.
Is it possible that Sunak/Cleverly actually asked Rwanda to come out in favour of International Law/ECHR to depth charge the lunatic fringe?
That will cost you; name your price; ah, that much...OK - and to your account in the Cayman Islands?
Yes, that's fine
Oh,they do. They are just bending the truth to their own agenda.
does withdrawing from ECHR mess up the Good Friday Agreement?
It also takes us to the no deal Brexit the real loons have never stopped chasing. The Trade and Cooperation Agreement we have with the EU absolutely depends on ECHR, and what’s more any possible replacement deal would as well. There is no trade deal between any European country and the EU without ECHR. None. Well, nothing beyond the meagre USSR agreement of the 80’s that Russia & Belarus are stuck with. No one sane in the UK is seeking that.
I find it quite incredible that it was Rwanda that blocked a more aggressive bill on grounds of international law. Really? FFS how low with these tory scum go?
Lower than an african country with a suspect human rights record, by the sounds of it.
The mere fact that the tories are vocally, and publicly seeking to circumvent the ECHR should speak for itself...
The rate we are going, Starmer will probably whip his MP's to support that too.
...but small boats or something.
It's really sad and pathetic... I mean commons debates were aways a bit of a posh school bun fight, but it's descending into primary school playground politics from all sides.
It's embarasing as a country, really.
For all the "rise of the right" across Europe I have never heard of any of them wanting to leave the ECHR. Folk like Wilders in the Netherlands would be comparable to idiots like Braverman or badenoch. He and many these other "far right" folk would be right at home in the tory party
For all the “rise of the right” across Europe I have never heard of any of them wanting to leave the ECHR.
You don't have to travel very far in time and space to find total contempt for the ECHR.
A couple of weeks ago across the Channel:
France is prepared to break European human rights law to expel “dangerous” foreigners as President Macron’s government pledges the toughest crackdown on immigration in 30 years.
Gérald Darmanin, the interior minister, said France would deport foreigners deemed a threat without waiting for the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) to hear their appeals. If their removal was judged to have violated the European Convention on Human Rights, Paris would pay a fine but not allow them back.
I reckon that ignoring the ECHR whilst remaining in it is probably worse than leaving. It shows even greater contempt imo.
Does that make Macron far-right? No, not necessarily. But it does make him rather similar to the Tories.
Fair enough.
France would deport foreigners deemed a threat without waiting for the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) to hear their appeals.
That's an issue of national security for France, depending on the definition of 'deemed', then fair enough.
I suspect they (the French) are not talking about economic migrants with, for example, student or working visas...rather dodgy asylum claims from a bunch of swetty blokes in the back of a lorry.
Context is all important, and most news papers are prolific in ignoring context and pushing an agenda, opinion rather than fact, if you will.
Of course I would never dare to speculate that 'the Times' might be squeezing evey last drop of rotten milk out of this particular raggety cheese cloth in order to sell a few papers or get a few website clicks, that would be libellous!
Of course I would never dare to speculate that ‘the Times’ might be squeezing evey last drop of rotten milk out of this particular raggety cheese cloth in order to sell a few papers or get a few website clicks, that would be libellous!
It's factual so don't see how that could be libellous.
We are watching another very bad example of democracy. Ignore all the FPTP, governments in power with less than 50% etc,. it is very clear to everyone that the majority of people have had enough of this government yet the government decides when to hold an election.
In a democracy that was working perfectly the government itself would have held an election a while ago knowing they are no longer wanted but are instead clinging on to the last minute.
Slightly misquoted, but what he's really saying.
"One of the great advantages of not having a written constitution is the ability to do whatever the **** we want".
Also note how he wants to stop "domestic courts" getting involved - this is basic stuff, quite simply we're at the 'Enabling Act' phase.
https://twitter.com/RobertJenrick/status/1732481602158985424?s=20
Slightly misquoted, but what he’s really saying.
You don't even need to misquote him,
"The Government has a responsibility to place our vital national interest above highly contested interpretations of international law"
and
"The stakes [ ] are too high for us not to pursue the stronger protections required to end the merry-go-round of legal challenges"
Are pretty clear in their meaning:- We consider ourselves to be above the law, and if that means that we ignore all the things that are inconvenient to to the illegal shit that we want to do, well then we either ignore it harder, or we write new rules that allow us to keep as many black people as we possibly can from coming to this country becasue my racist constituents are scared of people who speak different languages and eat different things
Who would have guessed that when Cameron was a pussy and gave in to the racist, immigrant- baiting loony right wing of the tory party in 2015, to give them their referendum, that the toty party would self-immolate so spectacularly
toty party would self-immolate so spectacularly
I think that's more Johnson language than Sunak language. 😉
If we weren't all so badly effected (yeah, yeah, some of you might not be, lucky you) by the fallout of Brexit and the ongoing aftermath, the Tory infighting of the last ten years would be funny. Maybe in 15 years time it'll be fun to look back on... but for now it looks like a long slow painful recovery is desperately required... and the ongoing delay in starting that, while they continue concentrating on their own little ambitions, is painfully frustrating. If only we could force them to call an election, so we could tell them to...
That’s an issue of national security for France
So as long as a country has a good reason to ignore the ruling of the European Convention on Human Rights that's okay? It is the government who should decide what is the correct course of action to take not the ECHR or the law?
Perhaps that's the problem with the Tories, they don't understand such subtleties?
Although I think it was nicely summed up here:
Thomas Legrand, a political commentator, said Darmanin was in effect claiming that “the rule of law prevents him from acting as he would like to ensure the safety of the French people”. He said that in other democracies, a minister would be weakened if he was found to have broken the law. In France, he “emerges reinforced”.
No leftie "human rights" lawyers getting in the way of Macron's government, I'm sure Braverman would approve.
Sunak is giving an 'emergency' press conference at 11 o clock. No word on what its about.
The letters have gone in?
His resignation?
An attempt to extinguish the raging bin fire that is the present Tory party?
Unless its to announce a general election, does anybody actually care?
An emergency press conference to discuss emergency legislation to deal with the small boat emergency?
Well I'm certainly excited.
Sunak is giving an ’emergency’ press conference at 11 o clock. No word on what its about.
It's to distract attention away from Johnson dropping Sunak in the shit at the Covid inquiry thus helping to ensure that when Sunak gets there on Monday, no-one remembers the blame he got today.
That explanation is as likely as any other. 🤷🏻♂️
It will all be about stopping the invasion of brown folk and how the labour party wants to let zillions come here with a load of nonsense about Rwanda being safe and how the silent majority want this to happen
@binners It's going to be "Nothing has changed" to give us all a warm glow of nostalgia for the days of Theresa May
razor wire, machine gun posts, wind and wave generators and a mine field, though the knuckle draggers will still be unhappy.
quite simply we’re at the ‘Enabling Act’ phase.
Posted the same a few weeks ago either here or on the Braverman thread. Tories - the Party of Law and Order, eh?
A government that does not recognise the rule of law domestically is not a legitimate government in my view.
It's remarkable how we look aghast at the US and what the Republicans are attempting over there, then so quickly find it arriving on our doorstep.
Sunak seems to drag out the lectern on a regular basis just to get coverage of the same old guff, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
razor wire, machine gun posts, wind and wave generators and a mine field, though the knuckle draggers will still be unhappy.
Immigrants will be spilt into thirteen groups and each week will have to send two representatives to fight through miles of red tape and hostile Government outposts, navigate through a dark barge and emerge the other side to claim a visa.
Suella Braverman and Mark Francois are lined up to staff the first two hostile Government outposts and direct constant withering fire on the immigrants.
It'll be televised, pay per view on GB News.
Apparently we now have 2 immigration ministers:
A minister for legal immigration and a minister for illegal immigration
Is this Rishi's latest job creation scheme?
No word on what its about.
"STOP THE BOATS"
Create a "problem" concerning foreigners... and then bang on about it.
Something about the NHS, teaching, failing public transports, SMEs closing... no chance.
minister for illegal immigration
U ! S ! A !
U ! S ! A !
In the same way that Ester McVey is titled 'Minister for Common Sense', he's going to give them the title 'Minister for Stopping The Boats', isn't he?
So as long as a country has a good reason to ignore the ruling of the European Convention on Human Rights that’s okay?
Well quite. It's "only" been 80 years ago since the reason we needed the ECHR in the first place and "only" a hundred years ago that because of petty national security concerns; western govts blundered into a catastrophic war with each other becasue of paranoid national imperialism, and fear of the rise of marginalised proletariat on the world stage. The rise of the instability and inability of western govts to not become engrossed in petty nationalistic and ethnic conflict has some very disturbing recent history.
Some heads (of state) really do need banging together.
hey already can’t tell the difference between an illegal immigrant and an asylum seeker
I'm more than a bit concerned that "illegal immigrants" has become normal in BBC news items when talking about asylum seekers, just because they've had to resort to water crossings due to all other routes being closed to them.
Time for the Boat-stop Backstop Agreement.
So Sunak wants the opportunity to tell the nation that his parents didn't come here as asylum seekers, which is why it was perfectly acceptable.
I'm expecting a spectacular volte-face whereby the entire situation is reimagined as a "new Dunkirk" and it will be a new "little boats miracle". Bunting on the quayside and tea and biscuits for everyone!