Its an unusual interpretation of the end of the heath government. He only just had a majority but did have one and the opinion polls were telling him an election would increase his majority. He gambled on using the strikes as a wedge issue to increase his vote and lost.
Never heard anyone else claim strikes brought the government down especially as the worst of the strikes were over by then IIRC
Are you old enough to remember this Ernie? or are you going off others interpretations?
The country was on a 3 day week! It wasn't able to function because of industrial action. As a consequence Heath called an early general election asking who governs Britian, he didn't get the answer he was hoping for.
If you want to believe there was another reason that Heath called an early general election that's up to you.
that is not the same as strikes bringing the government down. His majority has fallen to a couple of MPs IIRC and he thought going to the polls on that platform would give him a bigger majority. He gambled on it and lost
I have never heard your interpretation of it before.
I don't think you are old enough to remember it? I am
Your googling powers are as great as mine.
The solution? A general election
On 7 February 1974, Prime Minister Edward Heath called a snap election. The February 1974 general election was dominated by the three day working week and miners’ strike as an issue: Heath believed that this was a politically opportune time to hold an election because he thought, broadly speaking, the public agreed with the Tories’ hardline stance on the issue of union power and strikes.
ernie - I read what you said and didn't miss any of it.
Your references to past industrial action and grocer ted are irrelevant to the current situation - and appear to be attempted thread derailment.
Anyway, back to that 'nice Mr sunak' - do you have anything new to say about him?
Well if you didn't miss it why were you telling me that "the union/employment ‘landscape’ has changed beyond all recognition since then" when I had already made that point? Perhaps you couldn't think of anything else to say?
And as for your claim "appear to be attempted thread derailment" that is obviously nonsense. Someone asked the question if Sunak could be forced to call an early general election.
I suggested that mass industrial action which brought the country/economy to a complete standstill is the only way that could really happen, so because that wasn't going to happen Sunak would be totally free to decide for himself when to call the general election.
But because I suggested that the country/economy is not currently at a complete standstill the usual suspects piled on. And of course the usual and predictable screams about brexit.
Anything new to say about Rishi Sunak? Well all the political threads are pretty much the same.....in whoever's honour the thread is, Sunak, Braverman, Johnson, etc, most of the comments boil down to "we hate the Tories" and " *insert name* is evil and thick and stupid".
It would be great if someone had something new to say about Rishi Sunak beyond how useless and thick he is. But what are the chances of that?
Heath believed that this was a politically opportune time to hold an election because he thought, broadly speaking, the public agreed with the Tories’ hardline stance on the issue of union power and strikes.
Which is what I said. Its not the same as a strike bringing down the government . the government did not collapse and / or lose a confidence vote. The opiniion polls told him it was a good time to call one.
Okay TJ if you want to believe that the 3 day week/industrial action didn't bring down the Ted Heath government that's up you. I'm not going debate the point with you.
ernie - a bit thin skinned I think.
You made clear reference to a course of action which, decades ago, mayhave caused a government to call a GE.
Given that, as you acknowledge, it wouldn't happen today what was the point of you even referring to it?
There are many comments I could pass on many subjects but, using political threads as an example, sometimes there is so much tedious verbiage to wade through that I can't be bothered.
Brevity and relevance are always helpful, I'm sure you would agree.
It just showed Rishi’s arrival in Manchester on the news. He walked on to some totally inappropriate ‘down wit da kidz’ music and seriously asked a room full of similar socially awkward weirdo conservatives if they were ‘pumped to be here?!’
Mrs Binners just screwed her face up and said ewwwwwwwwwww
I suspect most of the country did the same. He’s like an even more embarrassing Mark Corrigan, trying desperately to be ‘cool’ and getting it so catastrophically wrong
In other news the ‘Windsor Framework’ has come into play today which means that things are still a total pain in the arse for goods travelling to Northern Ireland but slightly less of a pain in the arse than with Borises deal.
Hurray for Brexit!
Another 60 years and trade with our neighbours will be almost as easy it was before all the nobheads and racists voted for this mind-bogglingly stupid bag of old bollocks
Global Britain eh? Will they spend the week trying to polish that particular turd? Or just try and pretend it hasn’t happened and it’s nothing to do with them anyway
Given that, as you acknowledge, it wouldn’t happen today what was the point of you even referring to it?
I have already told you:
Someone asked the question if Sunak could be forced to call an early general election.
I suggested that mass industrial action which brought the country/economy to a complete standstill is the only way that could really happen
Obviously if I had known the untold grief it would cause I might have thought twice about offering an answer to that question. I doubt that you have noticed but I already engage far less on certain political threads.
That's how it works isn't it..... keep haranguing someone who doesn't comply strictly to the narrow confines of what is decided is the correct point of view until they stop posting and the sterile purity of the political thread is guaranteed?
Yawn.
Untold grief, haranguing - what are you wittering on about?
I normally take very little notice of what you post on any subject; my reference to brevity and relevance explains.
Someone asked the question if Sunak could be forced to call an early general election.
I suggested that mass industrial action which brought the country/economy to a complete standstill is the only way that could really happen
Which, as you acknowledged, would/could not happen today thus rendering your post historically informative but otherwise irrelevant.
I'll leave you to your dreams of a workers' uprising and idealogically pure discussions.
Seriously, is that the best you could come up with?
"ideologically pure discussions"
?
Aside from whether the 1973 miner's strike brought down the Heath govt (thought that was an unarguable fact BTW 🤷♂️), the tory party conference is quite a spectacle. I'm watching the energy secretary make a speech in front of about 30 people who have clearly not had the memo that they're supposed to clap in the awkward silences in between soundbites. Someone should have told her speech writers that adding in gaps for applause only works if there is an audience. 😀
I saw the pictures of James Cleverley, who is apparently the Foreign Secretary, giving his speech. Also to an empty room
Has anyone mentioned 'The Benefits of Brexit' yet?
Has anyone mentioned ‘The Benefits of Brexit’ yet?
The transport secretary started to have a rant about 15 minute cities, and then sky news cut away. Even they've concluded they're a bunch of batshit crazy conspiracy loons.
Even they’ve concluded they’re a bunch of batshit crazy conspiracy loons
James Cleverley said that Labour will give the Falkland Islands to Argentina
Its like they're having a competition to see who can come out with the most batshit, totally made up nonsense.
I reckon Rishi will probably win that one tomorrow
"Aside from whether the 1973 miner’s strike brought down the Heath govt (thought that was an unarguable fact BTW 🤷♂️)"
!) It did not collapse. Heath called an election. No VOC was needed. the government was not " brought down"
2) heath only had a tiny majority and he thought the strikes could be used as a wedge issue to gain seats so he called an election and lost
3) Ernies link agrees with me
ernie - at last, some brevity from you!
It's not that difficult, is it?
I had dismissed your post(s) regarding mass action and grocer ted as totally irrelevant.
As you always want the last word you will, no doubt, wish to respond - yet again.
Anything to say about 'that nice Mr sunak' who, just to remind you, is the subject of this thread?
The alternative leader is about to do her speech. Sky news is running it live and there's way more people there than were in the main hall, inlcuding Nigel Farage. I'm sure Rishi is very happy about that. Keir Starmer must be pissing himself.
We’re sitting on 50 years of sustainable gas apparently.. whatever that means!
Funny isn't it. Cabinet ministers and the PM are ranting about fictional conspiracy shite, Liz Truss the loony is talking about building houses. 🤷♂️
Leadsom on the BBC saying why her (successfully) campaigning for 20mph limits in her constituency is not the same thing as the "war on motorists" where Labour controlled regions are trying to introduce 20mph limits (after elections where they promised to do so). *They* must be stopped.. but in her seat *she* (and the people she represents) must be listened to.
I'm beginning to wonder if Keir Starmer will be fighting the next election against Liz Truss not Rishi Sunak. 😳
The entire Tory party membership is now made up of mad, racist, great-aunts and retired Field Marshalls
If you watch any of the footage of the party conference, its absolutely astounding to think that these people are supposed to be running the country. It looks like a regional conference for jigsaw enthusiasts or something
HS2 northern link cancelled. Minutes before Jeremy Hunt's speech where I guess he'll announce 20bn to be spent on filling potholes and subsidising petrol prices.
TJ will be happy 😉
Just because your name sounds a bit like 'Bent one' doesn't mean you have to live up to it. I mean, look at Jeremy Hunt...oh.
dazh - what's the source of your HS2 northern link cancellation post?
Its in the Grauniad
No Dazh that does not make me happy even tho it was completely obvious that this was going to be the case
I always said either do it properly or not at all. Old oak common to Birmigham is useless. Central london to Manchester has utility even tho is crap value for money
It's been leaked to various news outlets simultaneously...
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1708813476821364944?s=20
Just because your name sounds a bit like ‘Bent one’ doesn’t mean you have to live up to it. I mean, look at Jeremy Hunt…oh.
That one deserves a round of applause 😂
If he doesnt announce it at the conference & its only official once hes left Manchester, he will look like a massive coward#
https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1708828384875126949
If he doesnt announce it at the conference & its only official once hes left Manchester, he will look like a massive coward
Whereas if he does announce it tomorrow it'll look like he's flown up to Manchester specifically to wave two fingers in our faces and take a huge steaming dump on the North.
I doubt some token gesture of funding to fill in some pot holes is going to cut it, when you're still committed to spending untold billions on a pointless trainline from Birmingham to somewhere sort of near-ish to London
What a total farce this is
I'll take a punt on him having used a train rather than helicopter for this one... to literally fly to Manchester to announce (yet another) cut in ground based infrastructure in the North would just be too out of touch... he must have at least one advisor pointing out just how bad that would look.
Had a dig... looks like he was driven up in the back of Range Rover.
Dont think many of them used the train due to the strikes on Saturday.
I think it was reported he was drove (or was driven) with one of the others catching a plane.
Had a dig… looks like he was driven up in the back of Range Rover.
of course he did hes all about the motorist dont ya know!
It was Hunt who had to fly up......... because the rail infrastructure wasnt up to the job
to literally fly to Manchester to announce (yet another) cut in ground based infrastructure in the North would just be too out of touch… he must have at least one advisor pointing out just how bad that would look.
I honestly don't think he cares
Lets be honest... its the only way that he could have made the handling of this whole mess even worse, so I'd take it as a a given. The optics of this couldn't possibly look worse, could they? Anyone with anything between their ears would know that travelling to Manchester to basically tell Manchester (and everywhere else in the North) to **** off doesn't look great, does it?
Ha ha ha ha!
Now they're saying reports of HS2 cancellation are incorrect and the decision hasn't been made. Seems like railway lines are not the only thing they're not very good at and they need to sort out their leaking operation.
Jesus wept! The level of incompetence is absolutely off the chart.
Dirty tricks between the factions? Seems as plausible as anything else. Someone who hates Sunak leaks this just before his speech to make Sunak look even more stupid
This is just more policy by throwing it up in the air and seeing which way it lands, isn't it?
Everything I read about this conference is either batshit mental, a kick in the teeth for the North or both. How can you have leaks that are confirmed as true to journalists but carry in denying them officially? Hunt claiming labour will raise taxes and create inflation when they've done exactly that (usually tax hikes curb inflation, very rare to have both but they've managed it) via fiscal drag. Announcing an increase in the Living Wage which, while good for low paid workers, will lead to inflation as employers pass the hike on to customers. It's also ignoring the fact that they held back increases between 2017 and 2021 where they promised to get it to £10 an hour by 2019, then 2020 and so on. Struggling to put it all into words as I'm so angry at the handling of everything.
They're completely out of touch with reality and a General Election cannot happen quickly enough.
Edit @binners - Laurel and Hardy were fun and harmless, the complete opposite of this lot!
How can you have leaks that are confirmed as true to journalists but carry in denying them officially?
Easy. The journalists wont name names even if its proved the source/handler was lying and so you can test out stories as needed.
The journalists wont name names even if its proved the source/handler was lying
The leading journalists like Peston, Rigby et al won't report something unless they've double-sourced it and it's coming from reputable people connected to Sunak. They're going to get pretty pissed off if govt sources tell them they can report something only for Sunak to then get cold feet and say the opposite. And when leading journalists get pissed off, they start to report about chaos, dithering and indecision which they're now doing on Sky news.
The thing is that everyone has known for ages that they're going to scrap the Manchester leg of HS2, sine they first leaked it weeks ago. Absolutely nobody believes that they won't.
So this is just about the timing and making sure Sunak makes it out of Manchester alive tomorrow as fast as his little legs and his helicopter can carry him
Whens he going to officially scrap it then? Wednesday morning?
The leading journalists like Peston, Rigby et al won’t report something unless they’ve double-sourced it and it’s coming from reputable people connected to Sunak.
Standing at the podium tomorrow without announcing what everyone knows full well is a bad look, so it's arguable that briefing on it today is aimed at hurting him.
Also, quote of the day from the Trusster.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1708808731062841557
If the leak is confirmed my guess would be that's it come from the Treasury with exquisite timing.
Whether or not they were convinced by the economic arguments used in justification for signing off on the original proposal and cancelling the Eastern leg to Leeds they will, IMO, have concluded that cancelling Birmingham to Manchester does not represent value for money.
If the cancellation is announced I can easily see the Permanent Secretary to the Treasury requesting a 'Briefing from the Minister' before implementing the decision - I need a formal written instruction from you to do this and it will be a matter of record.
cleverley and shapps yesterday, truss and hunt today; leaks, factions.
What a shit show
How can any right thinking person believe the tories are a fit and proper party to run the country.
I wouldn't trust them to run a bath.
martinhutch - the like button seems to have disappeared so...I like your very recent post.
Sky news reporting again that it's been scrapped. You couldn't make this up. 🤣
HOnest Bobs speech including something about encouraging folk to have more children. great. I haven't had a shag for a while and I am probably still fertile. send 'em my way Bob!
Ooo… lifting the benefit cap for the third child then? The policy that no party will touch, even though it’s essential.
[ before anyone says it, many people who thought they could afford a third child have only subsequently been disabused of that fact by a government making most families poorer in real terms ]
I've never been so depressed and upset to be working in Transport as now.
Did a lot on rail stuff back in 2019/20 when Johnson and Shapps were poncing around Manchester giving big thumbs up about building Northern Powerhouse Rail, I was then in the various meetings with the (mostly Labour) northern leaders when the much-delayed Integrated Rail Plan revealed that the eastern leg of HS2 would be scrapped, NPR significantly downgraded to a series of upgrades to existing lines and so on...
A change of job, a nice progressive city (Labour of course) and a lot of active travel measures and now, in the space of a few short days, a bunch of conspiracy ****wits lead by an accountant who can't count have reversed all the tiny and marginal hard-won gains for active travel in favour of ripping up any and all restrictions for drivers.
Bunch of backward morons. ****ing Tory scumbags. The UK is an absolute basket case now presided over by a motley crew of far-right criminals.
The policy that no party will touch, even though it’s essential.
apart from the SNP who as the Scots government have the "scottish child payment" of £25 a week for all children under 16 and have done since Feb 2021.
Just another way the Scots government show lie to the tories ( and labour) claims about this sort of stuff.
I haven’t had a shag for a while and I am probably still fertile. send ’em my way
Must be thoroughly depressing crazy legs. Its bad enough when a policy adversely affects your life. To destroy what you have worked on must be horrid
Here's what we can look forward to on Tuesday at the tory conference:
- steve barclay...it's all the fault of nurses, doctors and consultants; nothing to do with me
- michelle donellan...I'm science minister, don't know much about it but we definitely should do more of it
- michael gove...levelling up? What's that?
- alex chalk...I'm lord chancellor and that makes my mummy very happy
- suella braverman...what, me, a racist? Say that again and I'll deport you
Heseltine suggesting the HS2 farrago is either mind-bending political incompetence or Sunak setting himself up to be ‘the saviour of levelling up’.
I think he’s underestimated the backlash and is now trying to find a face-saving solution.
1) Christ, Heseltine is still alive?
2) Christ, Heseltine seems reasonable these days?
It’s all going well on the run up to ickle Rishi’s big speech
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1708880286426010088?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
Im expecting them to announce that HS2 will be completed in full but the railway sleepers will be made from the sanctioned, starved to death, workshy disabled.
Saves on the sleepers and gets rid of the work house fodder dragging down Hard Working Families. Hard working families with 3 cars preferably.
The UK is an absolute basket case now presided over by a motley crew of far-right criminals.
I think there's a lot of motley far right criminal crews who would be very offended by the comparison.
Has this been done yet?
Why am I not surprised that he's weaseling his way out of this
Politecameraaction
Heseltine had real world experience before politics IIRC and is a smart laddie. We just do not have politicians of his stature in either party now. right wing yes but did not lose sight of the need to treat people well
Heseltine has been a voice of sanity in the tory party for a long time - more than ever in recent years.
Whatever sunak decides, he will lose a chunk of support.
What an opportunity for Starmer - we, Labour, will deliver HS2 as originally envisaged and deliver on NPR and the integrated rail programme.
Ensure there is full and proper oversight, rigorous programne and budget management.
Show the country - and the wider world - you're a man if vision and ambition who can, and will, make things happen.
binners - despite him being a tory I've always seen Andy Street as a pragmatist who has a clear understanding of business; so, we have Andy Burnham and Andy Street set against any further truncation of HS2; now we need Sadiq Khan to become much more vocal about the London end - sunak's dithering about Euston, Old Oak Common being a completely impractical and unviable solution either long or short term, colossal disruption in central London and all for what exactly?
tj - Heseltine founded Haymarket magazines and made a pile of money pre internet and influencers so, as you rightly say, he's a smart laddie.
BBC1 following up their conference reporting tonight with 'The Exorcist', in case you need cheering up.
Thatcher had real world experience before politics, and was also very intelligent... 🤯
And also had principles and an ideaology and was not corrupt. She would be on the left of the current tory party. she also understood the importance of the EU, engaging with it and helping mould it in the way she wanted.
And also had principles and an ideaology and was not corrupt.
Thatcher??? LOL!!
Didn't say they were good ones 🙂 I certainly do not remember her taking money for policy / access like this shower do
Follow the thread.
tj is clearly referring to Heseltine, as you know.
How long before you, ernie, dredge up some obscure comments by Heseltine in an attempt to prove...god knows what.
Thatcher certainly had an ideology, its foundation was myths and lies. She was utterly corrupt - the only people she served was the wealthy elite class which she married into.
And yes, she was highly intelligent, she knew full well that everything she spouted was based on lies. From TINA to "There is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money". She knew that if it was repeated often enough eventually people would start to believe it.
I see that you are busy rewriting history TJ, yesterday I learnt that Ted Heath's government didn't call a snap election because of mass industrial action which ultimately brought a change of government, today I learn that Thatcher was a principled incorruptible politician!
What will I learn tomorrow, that Enoch Powell wasn't the racist that this current multiethnic government are?
tj is clearly referring to Heseltine, as you know.
Michael Heseltine has changed sex?
She would be on the left of the current tory party.
As a further boot to the nadgers the day after scrapping HS2 north of Brum, it's now definitely being pushed to Euston.