Deliberately increasing living costs during a cost of living crisis is like trying to put out a fire with petrol.
100%
Everything they do is counter-intuitive.
Like I've said a million times - they've got everything back to front, that's what causes the chaos.
You can't have a thriving economy and low government debt.
You can't have a thriving economy and cost of living crisis.
And capitalism demands a thriving economy.
See the posts above ernie. If we had matched the eurozone we would have a larger economy and lower inflation over a period of years. We have been teetering on the edge of recession while they have been growing. Our economy is smaller than precovid. Theirs are bigger.
There is no doubt brexit has cost us all significantly and this is continuing and compounding.
@ernielynch - I call doing better the effect of the economic situation on the general population
A minor recession, but with much lower inflation would be way better for us right now than growth in GDP, but lower standards of living.
Nice to see our resident Bexiteer still banging the drum
Everything is clearly brilliant! If its not, then thats your fault for not believing enough
Cheers!
Jeezus are we back to derailing to brexit! Well done TJ, you never fail in your total obsession! 😂🤣
Nice to see our resident Bexiteer still banging the drum
Isn't it TJ that's still banging the drum?
I wouldn't call TJ a brexiteer!!
In any economic discussion it needs to be said. I merly pointed out that a post above mine blamed external factors soley for our economic woes. Thats not so. That lie needs to be corrected . Brexiteers need to be reminded of this every time they try to deny it.
Murphy pointed it out, if you read the thread linked to in the post you were replying to TJ..
"So why have we got inflation? The answer is that we reopened after Covid too quickly, resulting in those with wealth seeking to spend on high-ticket items when supply chains to the UK and within it were disrupted.
That pushed prices for some goods and services up for a while. Cars were impacted heavily. So was the cost of new kitchens and building work in general. That situation is, however, now long gone.
In the place of this short-term, and entirely self-correcting inflation, there has come inflation from another source. That is the inflation that has come as a result of war in Ukraine.
But, again, and quite remarkably, most of that inflation has now gone. Wholesale food and shipping prices have now returned to pre-war levels. Gas and petrol prices have fallen drastically from their peak. The underlying causes of price war-based rises have now gone.
But inflation has not. There must be other reasons for that. There are, actually, three.
The first is Brexit. It has created continuing supply chain disruptions and has imposed considerable extra costs that are fuelling continued inflation. This fact cannot be avoided."
...his further points are probably more relevant (because the government and BofE are making decisions right now that could be done differently)... all worth reading. The first post mentions external triggers as part of the intro/background, but the thread as a whole is focused more on where we are now, and how UK based decisions (including Brexit) are key. Covid and Ukraine have been the key triggers of inflation, worldwide, but that shouldn't be allowed to mask UK specific mistakes and problems that need solving (rather than exacerbating with more poor UK gov decisions by Sunak and Hunt).
In any economic discussion it needs to be said.
And don't you just....
IT'S ALL THE FAULT OF BREXIT!
Btw I'm loving how you suddenly take on Tory economic priorities, when it suits your agenda. You use the Eurozone as an example of doing better but dismiss the significance of recession, inflation in the UK is apparently a more serious problem!
That is exactly the sort of talk that an arch-thatcherite like Jeremy Hunt would approve of - inflation is a greater evil than recession, and bollocks to unemployment.
That is exactly the sort of talk ...
That TJ hasn't said. Please don't bite TJ. We can read what you've already posted, and ignore the lines that Ernie is putting in your mouth. We know you haven't said them.
Yeah you never said that, in case you weren't aware, listen to Kelvin!
This is the scary stuff:
Hunt has already said that he is "comfortable" with recession if it results in lower inflation:
The principal reason that inflation is higher in the UK than in other major economies is that the UK has fairly low unemployment. UK unemployment is 3.7% compared to 6.5% in the Eurozone.
Setting the UK apart is a jobs market that is struggling to recover from the Covid-19 pandemic, Brexit visa rules and the decision by many older workers to quit the employment scene.
The Tories would be perfectly happy to significantly increase unemployment, but not necessarily by easing visa rules. Instead by slashing public spending, with little regards for the consequences:
I don't know what the difference between slashing the state and austerity is. As far as I am aware there isn't any.
“You can’t have a thriving economy and low government debt.”
Switzerland would seem to be a pretty good counter to that - the national government consistently adjusts expenditure to avoid over borrowing.
https://commodity.com/data/switzerland/debt-clock/
https://tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/government-debt
Would we like the UK to be more like Switzerland (one extreme) or more like Venezuela / South Africa (the other extreme)?
The flip side of UK’s low unemployment is poor productivity - one of the lowest in the G7 - particularly when shackled by Brexit which means there is little opportunity for economic recovery through growth. As said above, we’re still in a post-pandemic hole in comparison to our peers and have fewer options.
With an aging demographic reluctant to re-enter the workforce (because many vacancies are shit, minimum wage, soul-destroying working for a faceless corporate) an embargo on immigration, then it would appear that starving people with sky-high fuel and food inflation appears to be the Government’s preferred option - particularly when unshackled from the Working Time Directive. Welcome to the new utopia!
Oh look, it's the Anti Growth Coalition!
https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1671583120007602185
Deliberately engineering or allowing a recession to control inflation...Trussonomics is starting to look good in comparison. It is all absolutely ****ing insane.
Anything to avoid addressing an ideological decision to destroy our most important trading relationship. Perhaps when inflation is still running at 5%, tax take is through the floor, inward investment has collapsed, people are losing their homes hand over fist, businesses are closing and jobs are disappearing, while other European nations are mostly growing, albeit slowly, someone will be willing to say it, and start fixing it.
an embargo on immigration
There is no embargo on immigration. Immigration into the UK has never been higher.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48785695.amp
Deliberately engineering or allowing a recession to control inflation…Trussonomics is starting to look good in comparison. It is all absolutely **** insane.
It is just old-fashion Thatcherism:
"Rising unemployment and the recession have been the price that we have had to pay to get inflation down. That price is well worth paying."
- Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer May 1991
And capitalism demands
a thriving economy.shareholders are paid above all else!
FTFY
<p style="text-align: left;">Deliberately engineering or allowing a recession to control inflation…Trussonomics is starting to look good in comparison. It is all absolutely **** insane.</p>
Yes but was always on the cards when people were crying about Truss.
It was next in the sequence of 'we only have one idea really.'
We shouldn't be afraid of recession. Or at least, we should be sensible about it. So much of the UK political dialogue views it like a good/bad switch, as if "avoiding recession" by a bawhair is good news and slipping into it by .1% is an utter disaster, or avoiding recession purely on the technical definition is what matters- like, by all means have a decline every <second> quarter as long as inbetween you always have one that's stagnant or fractionally up, that means it's not a recession. Of course it's totally possible to have years with a recession in where the economy actually grows, or have years with a shrinking economy but no official recession.
Here, in the EU we have 2 quarters of decline so officially a recession. But in the last 4 quarters there was .8% growth, .4% growth, -.1% growth and -.1% growth. In the UK we have .1%, .1%, -.1%, .01%. Our economy is essentially stagnant, theirs has grown, we have underperformed them by every worthwhile metric except for that scary word "recession". Our GDP is still .5% lower than before the pandemic, the EU's is 2.2% higher. Give me that recession any day compared with our growth.
And of course everyone loves to select their window of data, it's hardly possible to have a eurozone vs UK economic chat without it. The UK's feeble recovery from the last crash meant that occasionally years later we'd "outperform" a percieved peer/competitor and have banner headlines about it, purely because they'd already done more of their recovering while we hadn't. We got to claim a strong performance in 2021 and 2022 entirely because we had a had the biggest decline in the G7 in 2020 and so not quite recovering can be spun as success, just like "Halving inflation" can.
But most importantly, we have to ask who the economy helps. More of the economy ends up benefitting less and less people, we would absolutely be better off as a nation with a slightly smaller economy but less of it scalped off, or with a smaller economy that supports more good wages. What use is a growing economy and a poorer population? But that's been the reality every year for most of my life. We celebrate growth and ignore what it means. The UK's population has been in a recession for a decade while the "country" has seen growth.
Good post Northwind.
I think things are unravelling - and the Tories are well aware that they're not really in control of much at all.
I'm wondering whether we will get a pause on interest rates today instead of a rise.
I find it staggering too that both Labour and the Tories have become victims are their own economic product and adherence to fiscal responsibility will be the thing that drags us further under.
Or could the Tories pull a rug from under Labour and turn on the spending taps before a G.E?
Both parties seem to be fine with the decline of everything and expect growth to magically appear without the spending that needs to take place.
Tories built their entire model out of accelerating house prices - if that goes then they simply can't survive.
Reeves is making noises about forcing Banks to do this and that but it amounts to flexibility on repayments rather than any actually help.
If you think about it we have several overlapping events which should remind us the Government is here to do the best for its people:
- Decline and effects of neoliberalism
- Brexit and the fall out
- Covid
- House Price Bubble
It does get incredibley complex to make one point without referring to any of the above as they're all linked but its safe to say that something has to be done and that's where both parties are simply just hoping things correct themselves.
The Government and Labour have yet to wrestle with the magnitude of the problems here.
(Oh and inflation is inherently complex - there is no clear explanation that the 2.0% target is of any use really. I can't see that being the target going forward. )
100% agree with Northwind's post above. Our growth and wealth are both just smoke and mirrors to hide the real issues.
I hope that whatever happens today with rates is the correct thing when judged in a few years but whatever happens we are all in for a dollop of financial pain and the fault for that lays squarely with Rishi and co.
100% agree with Northwind’s post above. Our growth and wealth are both just smoke and mirrors to hide the real issues.
Yes and their failing by their own metrics - we had barely any growth in the run up to the pandemic.
(I'm not an advocate of growth for growths sake but classical economists love it don't they?)
Dear god! Has anyone just listened to James Cleverley on Radio 4, doing what Chris Mason correctly referred to afterwards as 'flailing around'?
How on earth is that idiot a government minister?
To summarise the interview:
"Rishi Sunak says his target is to halve inflation, what is the government actually doing to achieve that?"
"Erm.... errrrrrrrr.... well.....erm.....eerrrrrrr.... I dunno really. Nothing?"
Reeves is making noises about forcing Banks to do this and that but it amounts to flexibility on repayments rather than any actually help.
The whole point of the finely-balanced affordability models that banks and building societies use is that the products and rates they offer, and the amount of capital they have to hold, are directly linked to the likelihood of arrears/defaulting.
'Flexibility on repayments' is basically 'allowing your customers to be in arrears', which will pretty swiftly be reflected in the amount of new lending that lenders do, and the cost of it generally.
We shouldn’t be afraid of recession.
Can't really disagree with anything you've written, and, on reflection, I think those comments are preparing the ground for weaker than forecast growth figures next year, even if a technical recession is avoided. It's just a feeling of helplessness as, year on year, the UK becomes a less attractive place to invest through a decade or more of bad economic management, pisspoor political decisions, and rampant wealth diversion to a small chunk of the population.
<p style="text-align: left;">With such an unequal distribution of income, it is redistribution that will kickstart the economy not growth that benefits only the few.</p>
Anything to avoid addressing an ideological decision to destroy our most important trading relationship.
Yeah, but blue passports. That no one will be able to afford to travel abroad to use.
As for redistribution being the key - I couldn't agree more. But that has been the great trick of the New Right - convincing you that your pittance is better than 'their' pittance, you deserve it more and 'they' want to take it off of you - and Labour will help them. This is another really toxic legacy of Thatcherism - I may not be alright, Jack, but as long as you're poorer than me, that's good enough.
BOE goes for 5% Little Rishis back benchers are not going to be happy!
Jeremy Hunt has just made a statement the government fully support for the BoE doing just that
Even by Tory standards, this is a new one. Actively driving the economy into recession 😳
Sooner or later one of the two big parties is going to have to address the one bit of this god awful economic picture that was entered into entirely voluntarily.
That one, Keir. You know, the one beginning with B...
Even by Tory standards, this is a new one.
Apparently not, as was pointed out to me. Didn't realise they had been so explicit and open about it last time around.
Presumably the BoE is also going to sternly insist that Putin withdraws from Ukraine?
It’s just a feeling of helplessness as, year on year, the UK becomes a less attractive place to invest through a decade or more of bad economic management, pisspoor political decisions, and rampant wealth diversion to a small chunk of the population.
While in the hands of the party of economic competence, supposedly. How can people not see through these utter shysters!
How can people not see through these utter shysters!
Populist nationalism and othering. It shouldn't be enough. But it is.
While in the hands of the party of economic competence, supposedly. How can people not see through these utter shysters!
Just because you've informed yourself, doesn't mean that others have. There are ingrained opinions that will never be changed because people are ignorant of what is actually happening. Some of that ignorance is wilful, mostly people just don't follow politics or the economy. Boris hiding in the fridge was a joke to a lot of people, not the act of a coward that it really was. Sunak isn't even on a lot of peoples radar's because he's a ghost when something important happens. Today he's a soundbite in a factory saying the "we are going to get through this" but without the important information of HOW we going to get through this?
The interest rates aren't tangible to a lot of people and Sunak and (H)unt aren't exactly going out of their way to explain things
Just listening to Rishi's press conference,
I do love hearing that this is all 'a price worth paying' and 'a sacrifice we have to make' from a multimillionaire who won't be paying any price whatsoever, personally, or making any sacrifices at all.
Very George Osbourne-esque
We're all in it together' eh?
In another worrying development Rishi seems to have had some sort of coaching and has adopted the Tony Blair style of speaking to try and appear less 'posh'. I know he's always done it, but its so notable now its embarrassing for all involved.
Like David Cameron trying to pretend he liked football but forgetting which team it is he said he apparently supported 🙄
How can people not see through these utter shysters!
constant propaganda pumped out by the right wing press and thus distorting the BBC and other supposedly neutral media as the BBC take their neutrality from the midpoint of the print media
While in the hands of the party of economic competence, supposedly. How can people not see through these utter shysters!
I know you say that your parents don't but it is clear that most people do.
The last half a dozen opinion polls show support for the Tories at below 30%.
I believe that the Tories have never polled less than 30% in any general election for the last 200 years.
That is still 30% thought isn't it. How bad do they have to get? I suppose they are so far in there is no going back.
How bad do they have to get?
Or how good do opposition parties need to be to encourage people to switch party allegiance?
Although I am perfectly happy with over 70% of people seeing through these utter shysters.
constant propaganda pumped out by the right wing press and thus distorting the BBC and other supposedly neutral media as the BBC take their neutrality from the midpoint of the print media
On another note, it's the 'BREXITEERS ONLY' edition of Question Time tonight, live from Clackers.
On another note, it’s the ‘BREXITEERS ONLY’ edition of Question Time tonight, live from Clackers.
I might tune in for that. I could do with a good laugh.
🤡🇬🇧🤡🇬🇧🤡🇬🇧🤡🇬🇧🤡
Oh christ! I'm sure that'll highlight the alternative universe these people inhabit
Brexit is going well
Boris did a brilliant job and was the victim of a witch-hunt
I managed when interest rates were 16%
We're being swamped by immigrants
Bringing back hanging would cut crime
Anything else?
Our first question is from Mr Moimoifan of Singletrackeby.
Is there anyone in the audience capable of defining the following three terms?
Gaslighting.
Pyrrhic victory.
Schadenfreude.
Ok, err no? Right, moving on. Who here is in favour of bringing back the birch?
Brexit is going well
Boris did a brilliant job and was the victim of a witch-hunt
I managed when interest rates were 16%
We’re being swamped by immigrants
Bringing back hanging would cut crime
You missed out "It may be tough in the short term, but in the long run we'll be better off".
That one is the preserve of those who are aware enough to know what disaster it is, but will be dead soon anyway.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
While in the hands of the party of economic competence, supposedly. How can people not see through these utter shysters!
There’s ****s out there who’ll vote Tory no matter what happens
That one is the preserve of those who are aware enough to know what disaster it is, but will be dead soon anyway.
Not really. Those lot stuck in the caveat "but the government will protect us from it".
The ones who argued long term were the likes of Rees-Mogg.
Skipping over the hard in the short term is for the plebs. For them it would be profit time.
Some grim reading for number 10
Isn’t Sunak already at the Johnson level of "Phew, made it through another week"?
I doubt it goes much beyond that now. The backbenchers aren't turning up at the Commons because they're too busy cultivating their next job grift for after the GE.
Sunak will be relaxing with a glass of champers at one of his palatial residencies rather than doing anything as undignified as worrying about stuff. After all, none of this will result in that **** being anything less than filthy rich.
Not particularly rosy for Starmer, either. Is the rating because people think he should be more aggressive, or more socialist, or both?
Either way, Tory support is, I think, bumping along the bottom, but Starmer is not exactly getting Blair-like approvals. Wouldn't be surprised if this is more incentive for Sunak to go for GE in the autumn, before we have another cost-of-living and mortgage misery winter, followed by the possibility of actual recession in the New Year.
Wow. 20% are happy with the way the country is being run
Wow. 20% are happy with the way the country is being run
I can hazard a guess at the demographic of that 20%.
I'm thinking... triple pension lock... 4 bed house bought for £15,000... defined benefit pension scheme.
So, basically, those who are alright Jack with little skin in the game.
I wonder how many of those who say they are dissatisfied with Starmer are from the left, and will probably end up voting Labour anyway.
The optics of being the opposition leader are difficult, you don't get the air time or the visual context of being surrounded by the trappings and ornaments of office. Even Corbyn came across a lot better than expected in 2017 once he had the exposure that a GE campaign offers.
Once they're out on the stump, I can see Sunak getting eviscerated by Starmer whatever the date. Wherever he goes, Rishi's aides will have a map showing the whereabouts of the nearest fridge.
Wherever he goes, Rishi’s aides will have a map showing the whereabouts of the nearest fridge.
And a massive Union Jack and 'Stop The Boats' in 10ft letters on a placard.
I wonder how many of those who say they are dissatisfied with Starmer are from the left, and will probably end up voting Labour anyway.
That was definitely the calculated strategy used New Labour strategists such as Peter Mandelson in 1997, ie, that they could move Labour further and further to the right as those on the left would have no choice but to vote Labour anyway unless they wanted another 5 years of Tory government.
The strategy certainly worked in 1997 although there was in later years some hemorrhaging of Labour support to the LibDems under Charles Kennedy, especially over the drive to war.
But this isn't 1997 and the conditions are different. For example the electorate has moved decisively to the left on economic issues - privatisation no longer has the appeal it once had and voters are now far more likely to back nationalisation, they have seen money can suddenly appear when required such as to bail out the banks. And 15 years ago 'austerity' could be sold to voters, today it is a dirty word which even the Tories won't use.
Also the Tories are not now as much of a threat as they were when they were united in 1997. Unlike 1997 the Tories today have completely run out of ideas to sell to voters, are in effect ideologically rudderless, and at each others throats.
Then there is the stark reality that Keir Starmer is utterly devoid of even a hint of charisma, unlike Tony Blair who despite in my opinion being a waffling bullshitter did have a vague ability to charm people.
Add to all that the fact that Starmer has gone out of his way to wage war on the left in a way that Blair never did, in fact Starmer calls it "New Labour on steroids", and I am not so sure how much commitment there will be from those on the left to get out and vote for someone who they fundamentally disagree with, and who in all likelihood will be the next Prime Minister.
I reckon that Labour might have serious problems mobilising activists during the next general election campaign to do all the hard and very boring work which is absolutely vital and often erroneously dismissed as unimportant.
New Labour strategists such as Peter Mandelson
Talking of which:
I particularly like this:
Lord Mandelson very much regrets ever having been introduced to Epstein. This connection has been a matter of public record for some time. He never had any kind of professional or business relationship with Epstein in any form.”
So they were just good mates, like Prince Andrew was?
And how come Peter Mandelson regrets it now? He was accepting invitations from Jeffrey Epstein after Epstein had been convicted of being a nonce:
The report also suggests that Lord Mandelson stayed at Epstein’s New York home in June 2009 – when he was still Gordon Brown’s business secretary and the financier was serving 18 months in prison for soliciting prostitution from a minor.
Mandelson must have known why Epstein wasn't around when he stayed in his home.
If Peter Mandelson was a Corbyn supporter and Corbyn was currently Labour leader this story would have been plastered on every newspaper front page and also have been a major TV news item.
But Mandelson is a Starmer supporter and in turn Starmer is the preferred choice of the right-wing press, so consequently very few people are probably even aware of the story.
Very latest poll:
https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1672258230720888832
I'm not sure how the Tories managed to do that considering the week they have just had but it still leaves Labour with a healthy 20 point lead.
"I reckon that Labour might have serious problems mobilising activists during the next general election campaign to do all the hard and very boring work which is absolutely vital and often erroneously dismissed as unimportant."
That is a good point, for all the talk about the influence of mainstream and social media on politics, boots on the ground is vital and takes up an enormous portion of the workload, as someone pointed out on another political thread a couple of weeks back.
Starmer might find it hard to mass the troops but then again, it's not like they will be outnumbered on the doorsteps by Tory canvassers.
On the charisma front, at least when you start at the bottom the only way is up and when facing the public, I expect Sunak to have more problems than Starmer in this regard, he is so out of touch, for him the only way is down.
I expect Laboir to loose a few votes to the Liberals but the Tories will lose more. If the left stay at home then they'll get what they deserve I guess...
I'll be doing leaflet drops and a bit of doorstop chatter (not that I'm any good at that). My first general election doing so.
Anyway... why don't we have a thread to talk about Keir Starmer and his leadership of the Labour Party... just an idea.
Once they’re out on the stump, I can see Sunak getting eviscerated by Starmer whatever the date.
I would like this to be true, but I don't see it happening. Starmer is The Sensible Adult, which we need, but his tie is tied too tightly. he doesn't seem great at connecting with people, and he is not a cut and thrust politician. Biden showed it is possible to be a grown up and also get a couple of jabs in. It's easy for the Tories to be inflammatory and stir up the base. Come the campaign, he needs to give space to the MPs that will go out and start punching the Tory lies in the face.
If he's Blair on steriods, where's his bigger, angrier, earthier Prescott? Get Jess Philips off the ****ing sideline, bab
"If he’s Blair on steriods, where’s his bigger, angrier, earthier Prescott?"
Angela Rayner?
Be interesting to see how the byelections turn out.
Speaking of which is mad nad still carrying out her investigation into why she was stupid enough to trust what Johnson told her?
Angela Rayner?
I like her too and I want more. In a better world, Starmer would be the gammon-reassuring Biden to her paradigm-smashing Obama. But we are where we are.
Meanwhile, deep in the wreckage of the Conservative Party, a message from the Deputy Chairman:
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1672332632758034432
So you have one arsehole claiming that you can cook a nutritional meal for 30p, and another arsehole claiming that the solution to the cost of living crises is for people not to buy Heinz's baked beans, and now the pair of them treat it all like some sort of amusing joke to be celebrated in front of TV cameras?
The crassness of it all is quite remarkable.
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/brendan-clarke-smith-mp-tells-8448957
So you have one arsehole claiming that you can cook a nutritional meal for 30p, and another arsehole claiming that the solution to the cost of living crises is for people not to buy Heinz’s baked beans
Tories always aim so high when telling us what to do.
The whole crux of their economic decisions appear to be built around failure rather than success.
But then again they're all busy telling us to suck it up - like Andrew Bailey (a man with a History degree running the government's bank) on his juicy 500,000.
There seems to be a pattern in the interview training regime employed by cphq, gives ai a bad name when it's called robotic. :/
I reckon that Labour might have serious problems mobilising activists during the next general election campaign to do all the hard and very boring work which is absolutely vital and often erroneously dismissed as unimportant.
As an ex-shop steward I would sooner remove my genitals with a whisk than vote red. They no longer represent me or mine. I suspect it will be green or a spoiled ballot.
The lessons of the referendum vote have not been learned. Losers consent is required to govern effectively it's not a winner takes all situation despite the FPTP system we are forced to employ to select those who are to represent us. Claiming a mandate on a 30-ish percent share of the electorate (not just those that vote) is not democratic and never will be.
Losers consent is required to govern effectively it’s not a winner takes all situation despite the FPTP system we are forced to employ to select those who are to represent us. Claiming a mandate on a 30-ish percent share of the electorate (not just those that vote) is not democratic and never will be.
Not “effectively”. But if we give the Tories another majority government on the back of a minority vote… govern they will, effectively or not. Democratically or not.
I find it quit interesting that Labour and conservatives are still the largest political parties in the UK, by a large margin... despite them both being utterly incompetent in thier own tragic and unique ways.
We get the government we deserve.
Unlike which country?
Edit: Btw the LibDems have also proved to be utterly incompetent in government. After being enthusiastic cheerleaders for austerity the LibDems now admit that it was a huge mistake.
It is no mystery why the LibDem's stint in government didn't give them a massive boost of credibility, and why instead their support collapsed.
Well you’d be wrong
Well that is possible. Maybe Starmer's commitment to make Labour the "real conservatives" will energise activists to mobilise during the next election campaign, but that certainly isn't the feedback that I'm getting in marginal Croydon.
The despondency that I'm picking up at the trade union club doesn't seem to suggest that. What are you basing your belief that mobilising activists won't be a problem at all - your own personal enthusiasm?
Btw I thought you only wanted to talk about Rishi Sunak on this thread? I made that comment two days ago.
Off you pop, to the thread that everyone else avoids, with those same handful of righteous comrades endlessly shouting at each other in furious agreement….