Do you seriously believe that the current cluster**** is fixable in a few years
Of course not. But people will feel much better knowing the tories are gone and we have a govt which at least seems to want to fix these problems. There will be some quick wins. We can be fairly confident that money will start flowing into the NHS and care sector and the problems we see now will begin to improve. There will be quick resolution to public sectore strikes through improved pay deals. Local councils will be given a lot more money and people will be able to see things local to them improving. There's a whole load of stuff like that which is easily doable in one term.
are we joining the SM & CU on Day One, are we re-joining the EU on Day Two, or is it some economic miracle I’m unaware of?
The UK govt has enormous power to generate economic growth through it's own investment and policies. Having a more cooperative trading relationship with the EU would be beneficial, but it's not the be all and end all. The question is whether Starmer and the Labour party have the political courage to do what is required.
15 years of damage can’t be undone in 5.
Yeah except that hasn't been suggested by anyone.
Daz suggested that there might be "a bit of feel good factor" with the election of a Labour government.
This was challenged. It was suggested instead that there would be no feel good factor.
Presumably based on the belief that a Labour government would not inspire confidence of very positive and significant change.
Dazh suggested that in relation to Scotland. I'll bet there is no such effect here considering all the things the vast majority of Scots want are explicitly ruled out. There is also no movement in the polls SNP - Labour ( there is tory to labour as they are fighting over the unionist / brexiteer vote) nor any decrease in support for independence. the idea that the election of a tory lite government will change public sentiment here seems somewhat farfetched. But Dazh has made it clear he thinks Scotland both unimportant and he is uninterested so why he makes such sweeping statements seems odd to me
Its about perspective and the view from here is different. Yes a labour government will be a bit better. No it will not come anywhere close to meeting the aspirations of the scots people so will not put any significant dent in support for independence
The story that Zahawi had agreed to pay several million pounds in tax to settle a dispute with HMRC was actually originally broken by the Sun on Sunday.
I don’t know if it was the result of investigative journalism by the Sun on Sunday or someone tipped them off. Nor do I know their motivation behind their decision to publish.
Good timeline of the investigations here by the lawyer that's been looking into this for some time
Ft, indy, guardian, times been investigating him for a while
It is interesting that SoS published the scoop on his settlement
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1619640143438311425?t=Ct0gyraMtYrUFcjU4mRlcw&s=19
But Dazh has made it clear he thinks Scotland both unimportant and he is uninterested
On the contrary, I think Scotland is massively important which is why I don't want it to leave the UK, for much of the same reasons as the EU didn't want the UK to leave. I've also said many times that I believe leaving the UK would be very damaging to Scotland and all the people who live there, and I don't want to see that happen. We can see now what happens when a country cuts links with it's largest trading partner, so I'm genuinely surprised that many in Scotland are so enthusiastic about leaving the UK.
Dazh suggested that in relation to Scotland. I’ll bet there is no such effect here...
Bleedin 'ell mate, you are all over the place! Yesterday you seemed to suggest that Scottish nationalists would welcome a Labour government, when I said that I suspected a fair few might not. To the point where I conceded and said:
If you reckon that all Scottish nationalists will be cock-a-hoop at a Labour landslide victory next general election then that’s great.
Now today you are suggesting that whether there is a Labour government or Tory government probably makes no difference to Scotland.
But Dazh has made it clear he thinks Scotland both unimportant and he is uninterested....
I think the issue is your exaggerated importance of Scotland with regards to UK politics. I have no idea why you think everyone should care that much about Scotland, you constantly bring up it up on all political threads. The population of Greater London is over 3 million larger than Scotland's, how often is London discussed?
A Labour government should represent a very positive and significant change. If you doubt that then I can’t say that I entirely blame you.
Wait, what?
If Labour is just going to be the same as Tory, but with higher taxes, I shall vote Tory at the next election. At least with them there is the entertainment factor of wondering which one is going to be next to wind up in jail.
Seen quite a few tory supporters saying Lee Anderson needs to be in cabinet, even party chair 😂😂😂😂
At least with them there is the entertainment factor of wondering which one is going to be next to wind up in jail.
I don't think any Tory politician has ended up in jail for over 20 years. Not since Jonathan Aitken.
Edit: Today's bad boys are lightweights...... the best they can manage is Fixed Penalty Notices.
Erie - wisnae me that brought it up again 🙂
No What I said would be basically indifferent. Prefer labour to tory at westminster but the overall reaction will be meh! Very few in Scotland outside of die hard tories will prefer a tory government but a labour one will not generte much enthusiasm
Dazh - perhaps you could try to understand a little about scots politics then 🙂
Anyway - back on the delightful sidehow that is the tories tearing themselves apart.
What the next anti Sunak leak going to be? Its clear the leaks that he knew more about Zahawi and earlier came from a differnt faction in the party to damage Sunak. What next?
would be basically indifferent. Prefer labour to tory at westminster but the overall reaction will be meh!
Why do you moan about Tory governments so much then?
Dazh – perhaps you could try to understand a little about scots politics then
He says after apparently being oblivious to the effects of a Tory government on Scotland.
What next?
The report into multiple bullying cases (are we up to 30 now?) against the deputy PM and yet more questions about Sunaks wisdom with that particular appointment too
Aye - and Johnson in front of the privileges committee. Next set of leaks? who has more dirt on who? I expect someone to leak more info about what Sunak knew when
The report into multiple bullying cases (are we up to 30 now?) against the deputy PM and yet more questions about Sunaks wisdom with that particular appointment too
Surely it's got well past the point where no matter who Sunak appoints to what role, there'll be some dirt on that person somewhere. They're all horrible people, they're all corrupt to some degree.
It's like asking if you want elephant shit or rhino shit in your sandwich for the day. You're still getting a shit sandwich.
There may be a few clean ones around - but they are not daft enough to join the shower in cabinet is my guess. Certainly anyone with any sense is in hiding
It is probably very hard to find someone to be an MP who is simultaneously honest, believes wholeheartedly in the Boris vision for Brexit, and can be safely put in front of a camera.
Johnson purged the sensible ones when he forced them to vote for his Brexit deal: either they were bonkers enough to believe it would work or cynical /corrupt enough to know it was terrible for the country & went for it anyway.
A tory wipeout would be interesting, a whole new host of MPs would they go full Tea Party/ Trump or would the more traditional style tories come back?
To be honest I don't care anymore, i was very invested in the downfall of Boris and the unbelievable Trusster Cluck but im beyond bored now as I suspect are the majority of the population. The only thing I'm interested in now is the next election, I have no faith that the system, either political or legal, will hold any of them to account.
Full text of the letter from the investigator is now on the grauniad website. Its pretty damning
A tory wipeout would be interesting, a whole new host of MPs would they go full Tea Party/ Trump or would the more traditional style tories come back?
I think it depends on Labour actually working for the whole country rather than the oligarchs, I think Starmer could go either way. Populism needs to seed on fertile ground, 40 years of neoliberalism has created that fertile ground, reversing that trend is key in beating populism.
would they go full Tea Party/ Trump or would the more traditional style tories come back?
The ‘traditional’ one-nation Tory party doesn’t exist any more. Brexit killed it and Johnson finished the job with his purge of Brexit non-believers
The ludicrous betrayal narrative they’ve been busy nurturing for the last few years mean that any electoral defeat will be blamed squarely on not being Brexity/anti EU/right wing enough.
My money would be on them electing a totally unhinged ERG fruitloop as leader - Braverman or Badenoch - and for them to March off to the far right reaches of borderline fascism
The complete takeover of the party by those who ten years ago were considered just a fringe minority of headbangers would then be complete
The whole thing sacrificed on the alter of the monstrous ego of Boris Johnson and his Brexit opportunism. The ultimate irony being that he never even believed in it anyway
The only thing I’m interested in now is the next election
Absolutely this. This lot are done. Everyone knows it. It’s just a case of how long they limp on for before the inevitable. The entire country is sick to death of being at the mercy of the internal bickering of Tory factions, while everything turns to shit
The BBC will shortly be apologising for showing a fan at the Wrexham v Sheffield United game holding up a cutout FA Cup clearly marked "**** the Tories" 🤣
And the crowd are loudly chanting it now 😂
Blimey how did we get all these spivs, bullies, racists, snobs and thieves on to the national stage? It's so degrading.
My money would be on them electing a totally unhinged ERG fruitloop as leader – Braverman or Badenoch – and for them to March off to the far right reaches of borderline fascism
It's wokeness gone bleedin mad. You don't get a look in if you are a white Christian man in today's Tory party.
Brown female Hindu/Buddhist/Muslim? Expect to be fast-tracked to the top of the Tory Party.
It's politically corrected borderline fascism. Probably.
I don’t think that white Christian’s have a monopoly on fascism. The Tory party are very ‘equal opportunities’ in accepting far right nutjobs of all creeds and colours
Anyway… I see that Zahawi is carrying on the Johnsonian tradition of casting himself as the persecuted victim, making no reference to his own dodgy behaviour and blaming everybody else but himself
https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1619637690496086016?s=46&t=oyKrSxH2cNvw73-g8D6DIA
As set out at paragraph 11, I consider that Mr Zahawi should previously have declared the fact of the investigation. The subsequent fact that the investigation concluded with a penalty in relation to the tax affairs of a Minister also requires declaration and discussion. It is a relevant interest which could give rise to a conflict, and particularly so in the case of HM Treasury Ministers and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who has responsibility for the UK tax system. As a result of my inquiries, I conclude that Mr Zahawi failed to update his declaration of interest form appropriately after this settlement was agreed in principle in August 2022. It was not until mid-January 2023 (see paragraph 16) that details of the earlier HMRC investigation and its outcome were declared. 14. I also conclude that, in the appointments process for the governments formed in September 2022 and October 2022, Mr Zahawi failed to disclose relevant information - in this case the nature of the investigation and its outcome in a penalty - at the time of his appointment, including to Cabinet Office officials who support that process. Without knowledge of that information, the Cabinet Office was not in a position to inform the appointing Prime Minister. 15. Taken together, I consider that these omissions constitute a serious failure to meet the standards set out in the Ministerial Code. 16. Mr Zahawi informed me that on 16th January 2023 he submitted, to his Permanent Secretary, his declaration of interests form in relation to his current role as Minister without Portfolio, to which he was appointed on 25th October 2022, and that in that form he included detail of the outcome of the HMRC investigation. At the time of my investigation this declaration was under consideration by the Permanent Secretary and had yet to be submitted onward to me for consideration. Given the seriousness of this matter, I would have expected Mr Zahawi to attend to his submission much more rapidly and, as stated in paragraph 14 above, to have notified Cabinet Office officials at the time of his appointment.
Conclusions from the investigator as in the Grauniad
Its really pretty damning
Anyway… I see that Zahawi is carrying on the Johnsonian tradition of casting himself as the persecuted victim, making no reference to his own dodgy behaviour and blaming everybody else but himself
Both the letter from Sunak "firing" him and his letter accepting it are very strange. Very little mention of dodgy dealings, just a load of praise for some other stuff he's done and a nod to his ethnic minority background.
The main issue though is what's gone on in the background with him trying to use libel laws to quash the investigation. Basically he knew what he was doing was 100% wrong but he thought that like Braverman (sacked for breaches of the ministerial code, almost immediately reinstated) and Patel (breached ministerial code, actually promoted by Johnson!), he could get away with it because he was surrounded by his mates and everyone else was doing it and...and...and ..
Long Twitter thread on it here.
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1616030741225246720?t=nrJi8MHcc8_C9YCFsA1XAA&s=19
The only thing I’m interested in now is the next election
You are not alone. I’m surprised how many Conservative voters I know think that there should be an election ASAP, and for the current government to be replaced… even those who are still minded to vote Conservative in their own seat. Everything between now and an election is just time wasting, in the view of many people, of all sorts of political leanings. We need a general election now.
You don’t get a look in if you are a white Christian man in today’s Tory party.
King of the trolls. Well done.
Both the letter from Sunak “firing” him and his letter accepting it are very strange.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word.
he could get away with it because he was surrounded by his mates and everyone else was doing it
And yet it was precisely this attitude which triggered off the beginning of Boris Johnson's downfall and then finally finished him off 8 or 9 months later.
The irony is that what brought Johnson's downfall was his commitment to his dodgy mates rather than his own dodgy behaviour.
They’re all completely shameless and genuinely seem to believe that they’re above the law and that the rules governing everyone else simply don’t apply to them
Again: the toxic legacy of Boris Johnson, the man who has done so much to debase everything he touches
The irony is that what brought Johnson’s downfall was his commitment to his dodgy mates rather than his own dodgy behaviour
or being very careful with his treatment of the people who know where the bodies are buried, if you’re feeling less benevolent
I’ve always had the feeling Johnson has codependents, not mates. Nothing I’ve seen in recent years changes that for me.
I don’t think that white Christian’s have a monopoly on fascism.
Obviously not. I also don't think that Suella Braverman is a likely contender to be Tory leader, and yet you offer her as one of two possible candidates.
The suggestion is obviously done for effect rather than because it is a likely possibility.
As is the suggestion of "borderline fascism".
When sunak was annointed he waa asked if/when he would release his tax return(s).
Answers were...yes and before Christmas - year not specified.
To date - nothing.
Journalists now beginning to ask questions.
Honesty, integrity, transparency Mr sunak?
You couldn't make it up.
I also don’t think that Suella Braverman is a likely contender to be Tory leader, and yet you offer her as one of two possible candidates
The suggestion is obviously done for effect rather than because it is a likely possibility
I’m prepared to have the now standard STW wager of a 20 quid Greggs voucher that the next Tory Leader will be either Suella Braverman or Kemi Badenoch. The membership of senile daily mail readers who make up the Tory leadership electorate absolutely love them both
You having that Ernie?
The only way I can see that being anybody else I’d if they dethrone Rishi in May, after the disastrous local elections, and reinstall Boris (which the Tory party is now insane and dysfunctional enough to do). But that would simply postpone the inevitable Braverman or Badenoch leadership
I’ve always had the feeling Johnson has codependents, not mates. Nothing I’ve seen in recent years changes that for me.
Its always transactional with folk like him.
A tory wipeout would be interesting, a whole new host of MPs would they go full Tea Party/ Trump or would the more traditional style tories come back?
It probably depends on which ones are left in parliament as that's where the power lies. If whoever is left is mostly of one faction, then there's a high chance that the other faction will split to form a new party. At least that's what labour will be praying for.
I've followed the commentary on here of this gov through PPE orders, through parties, through Truss, now this, it's like a never ending river of ****, it's endless.
They are even giving us literal never ending rivers of shit.
Well, they’ve voted for another 15 years of filling rivers and coasts with shit. Hopefully that can be stopped sooner than that. We need a general election now.
I’m prepared to have the now standard STW wager of a 20 quid Greggs voucher that the next Tory Leader will be either Suella Braverman or Kemi Badenoch
Agree, they'll swing back to culture warrior types of given the chance, but they have been burnt by sunak's inexperience, cleverly or barclay would be in with a shout if they swing hard enough to the populist right
The direction the Tories take after the next general election will be dependent on what they see as the most effective way to regain power.
The Tories are very very good at winning power. And one of the reasons they are so good at winning power is because they are so adaptable.
The unprecedented level of gender, ethnic, and religious diversity, of the Tory leadership and Cabinet is testament to that - who could have imagined it 20 years ago? As is their ability to adapt when circumstances require it - it was a Tory government which took the UK into the EEC, then a Tory government which took the UK into the EU, and then a Tory government which took the UK out of the EU.
Three or four months ago it seemed that the Tories could finally implement the economic policies outlined in Britannia Unchained. When the electoral consequences of these policies became obvious they were unceremoniously abandoned, their Chancellor was sacked, and their Party Leader was replaced faster than any other PM in history (who hadn't died)
I don't know who the next leader of the Tory Party will be nor the direction that they will take. But I am confident that on both counts it will be based on who and what they believe will best help them to regain power. And that they will have learnt the lessons of Truss and suicidal policies.
Are you taking that bet then?
Isn't Sunak in a spot of bother with this latest revelations? I've lost a bit of where things have happened on this but didn't Sunak say in Parliament that he didn't know about Zahawis tax affairs/issues? Is there a hasty 'clarification' required if so?
