By what measure of worse do we measure for the worst tory government?
Thatcher was probably more malign but this lot are more incompetent and corrupt
Absolutely.
Thatcher set in motion the disintegration of the UK and lied her way through an economic model that is now responsible for nearly all of our issues. She convinced a lot of smart people.
Too much trigger warning and outrage over current government piss-head logic without bigger picture analysis.
It's much harder to measure the steady decline of right-wing economics than it is current Tory slap ups. If Neoliberal policies hadn't carved up society there would have been less piss boiling over blaming other people, migrants, lazy and disabled etc.
Reality - it is all linked - Sunak/Johnson are carrying around an economic model that ran out of steam and offers nothing.
They are literally bored of even bothering to fix things.
Thatcher’s favourite serial killer was Pol Pot.
I thought it was her Re: Belgrano?
Next year we'll have mortages up £4k a year, stricter border controls (so even costlier imports), NHS likely collapse, fuel prices no doubt going up, everything going properly downhill.
Rish! to call a quick snap election now then blame Labour for all the woes coming and bounce straight back in the following term?
<p style="text-align: left;">Rish! to call a quick snap election now then blame Labour for all the woes coming and bounce straight back in the following term?</p>
Yeah I think September/October.
I makes sense to do back end of Summer, it's as good as it's going to get.
Interest rates probably have 18month lag and 6% will be the killer.
Why wait?
You’re hardly unable to defend yourself
I don't need to defend myself. If you believe that deliberately lying to the House of Commons about attending a party is worse than deliberately implementing policies which resulted in recession and over 3 million unemployed, with all the consequential misery that brought, including suicides, alcohol and substance abuse, poverty, crime, violence, etc etc, it speaks volumes about your moral compass, priorities, and values.
How terribly middle-class of STW to believe that the worse thing a Tory prime minister can do is to lie to parliament.
And I get accused of trolling?
and I guess I fell in to your trap
Yeah my "trap". Me having a different opinion to yours is obviously a "trap".
Since the accepted way of dealing with a "troll" is not to respond how about ignoring my posts in the future? 💡
Arguing about the relative comparative merits of various Tory administrations is a bit like asking who your favourite serial killer is, surely?
They’re all utter ****s!
I don't think anyone is arguing merits of Tory administrations.
Inequality and poverty is still sky-high and I can't remember the last piece of news or discussion about that in the face of modern scandals.
I know which one needs most attention.
I don’t need to defend myself. If you believe that deliberately lying to the House of Commons about attending a party is worse than deliberately implementing policies which resulted in recession and over 3 million unemployed, with all the consequential misery that brought, including suicides, alcohol and substance abuse, poverty, crime, violence, etc etc, it speaks volumes about your moral compass, priorities, and values.
Generally shocked this actually needs to be said but clearly it does.
If you believe that deliberately lying to the House of Commons about attending a party is worse than deliberately implementing policies which resulted in recession and over 3 million unemployed, with all the consequential misery that brought, including suicides, alcohol and substance abuse, poverty, crime, violence, etc etc, it speaks volumes about your moral compass, priorities, and values.
Yeah but it's the equivalent of getting Capone on tax evasion charges rather than, y'know, a lot of gangland murders.
Without this whole lying to Parliament thing, Boris would still be an MP, he'd still be writing his own history as Got Brexit Done and painting a picture where some kind of evil anti-growth coalition/Corbyn/Starmer/remoaners were responsible for all his other ****-ups but now an ever increasing majority of people can see him for what he is.
How terribly middle-class of STW to believe that the worse thing a Tory prime minister can do is to lie to parliament
Side stepping all the other things I'd raised. I'm sure there's nothing else there to address. Hardly worth worrying about really. Enjoy your evening.
Side stepping all the other things I’d raised.
You included "Then further breaks ministerial rules by taking a new job without clearing it" FFS. And lying to the Queen!
You must have a very high opinion of past Tory governments if you think those couple of examples are worse than anything previous Tory governments have done!
How did taking a new job without "clearing it" affect the lives of your average working man or woman? Tell me.
Have you ever heard about "austerity"? Or don't little things like that bother you? ......after all lying to the Queen is far worse!
Yes you're absolutely correct. Goodnight.
So… anyway… this Rishi Sunak bloke? The one in the thread title….
Anyone actually think he’ll show his face tomorrow? That he’ll actually take a stand for his proposed ‘honesty, integrity and professionalism’ he said he was going to bring back to number 10?
Or will he hide himself away as his party either vote in support of Johnson or abstain, then try to pretend it never happened and just hope it all goes away?
I'd bet a tenner he's a no show. Got to be a border force boat he hasn't had his picture taken on yet.
Anyone actually think he’ll show his face tomorrow? That he’ll actually take a stand for his proposed ‘honesty, integrity and professionalism’ he said he was going to bring back to number 10?
Lol - No who ever expects a Tory to be that person?
The constant magic roundabout of Tory behaviour is like a Guardian soap opera.
"What about the poor ?" - **** them - there's this Sunak bloke to be surprised at.
TBH I didn’t mind Maggie,I’m not saying she didn’t cause a lot of pain but I think she actually thought about the country and tried to do things (however wrong)with for the good of the ‘country’ whereas the current batch are blatantly just out for the good of themselves.
Oddly the old people who adore Boris are exactly the same who would have been outraged at the newspaper coverage of his bullingdon boys exploits.
Sunaks just a total p-take thou a multi millionaire anointed by the few, when a GE should have been called.
That democratically elected leader the public voted for,Oh sorry that was BJ.
(Tecnically not true but I’m pretty sure that was the intent not Truss or Javids little helper)
Latest attempt at distraction is to racialise the council house waiting list whilst cutting back on social housing. Genius.
I think she actually thought about the country and tried to do things (however wrong)with for the good of the ‘country’
Thatcher's commitment to inequality was touching, despite widespread and overwhelming opposition to her flagship policy, the poll tax, she pressed on regardlessly.
The Tories were eventually forced to humiliatingly sack her when she became a huge and obvious electoral liability.
Such a shinning example for today's Tories!
Rishi confirming that he ‘wouldn’t want to influence anyones decision’. And now they're talking about debating the commissions findings about Johnson, but using parliamentary process to stop there being an actual vote.
He really is a complete shithouse…
https://twitter.com/johnjcrace/status/1670702215072194560?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
TBH I didn’t mind Maggie, I’m not saying she didn’t cause a lot of pain but I think she actually thought about the country and tried to do things (however wrong)with for the good of the ‘country’
Absolute rubbish. I am assuming you don't live in the north where her ideological war against the miners destroyed communities with no thought whatsoever as to what would replace those lost jobs. Relentless privatisation? How's that working out for you?
Thatcher saw the working class as expendable collateral in her culture war. She was nasty. She never thought of the good of the country.
Yes you’re absolutely correct. Goodnight.
I love the way people on this forum flounce off when someone challenges their views. 😂
Maybe they should do this in parliament too? How long before Rishi legs it from PMQs after calling Starmer an evil troll?
Generally shocked this actually needs to be said but clearly it does.
I think most people have forgotten that in 1981 Thatcher *deliberately* crashed the economy and threw 3 million people on the dole (that was before she crushed the miners) for an ideological experiment. It was nothing short of a war on the working class. They might as well have sent tanks into northern towns.
*deliberately* crashed the economy... ...for an ideological experiment
Sounds eerily familiar.
This time around it's about making the workforce poorer, rather than creating a pool of unemployed.
WTF is Sunak running around a working hospital?
He should just **** off back to his desk and get on with the stuff that needs sorting.
Although I don't believe he actually wants to fix anything, just make sure him and his like grab even more wealth.
Thatcher's plan was the deliberate destruction and disenfranchisement of the working class.
Remove well paid, unionised jobs, close libraries, sell off school playing fields, privatise essential services etc. The conscious creation and subsequent demonisation of said underclass, along with the disabled, the 'different' and anyone else they don't like. All achieved.
What a wonderful legacy.
My assessment is that Thatcher had and ideology and genuinely believe it would modernise the UK bringing riches with it.
The fact is it was a disaster we have never recovered from that sewed the seeds for future economic disasters like this lot have inflicted on us thru incompetence and hubris.
The current shower have no shared ideology. Just a lot of socipathic power grabbing and hatred for others and are being used as tools by all sorts of nasty folk.
My assessment is that Thatcher had and ideology
She did. I've described it above.
.....genuinely believe it would modernise the UK bringing riches with it.....
That's the bit I disagree with, sadly.
If you mean bring riches for the few, whilst destroying the lives of those she was incapable of empathising with and actively despised, you have a point.
The current shower have no shared ideology. Just a lot of socipathic power grabbing and hatred for others and are being used as tools by all sorts of nasty folk.
The current lot would do exactly the same as Thatcher if they needed to, but she largely beat them to it. I regard them as worse as they will do anything Thatcher did and have a complete disregard for rules and norms of public service.
The current shower have no shared ideology. Just a lot of socipathic power grabbing and hatred for others and are being used as tools by all sorts of nasty folk.
Purely because the ideology doesn't work so what else have they got?
The fact that Starmer is about to run with the same model tells you so much about the ignorance over Conservative universe building, and it's imitations.
Grown-ups will never fix this current economic model because it's on the brink by design.
The current shower have no shared ideology.
The reason the current shower are ideologically ruderless is because Thatcherism has failed.
genuinely believe it would modernise the UK bringing riches with it.
Thatcher didn't give a toss about the UK, she had far more commitment to wealthy foreign elite than she had to the average Brit.
And not everything Thatcher did was driven by idealogical commitment, Section 28, which she is famously associated with, was simply an act of blatant bigotry.
Thatcher did indeed have a plan and a mission. It was to destroy the working classes and the unions in a spiteful act of vandalism, as revenge for bringing down the last conservative government
Now, the country is just completely rudderless and has been for years. Johnson arrived in office with no other plan than simply to be in office and then surrounded himself with a similar bunch of self-serving grifters
If you can find any ideology at work here other than.... erm... something, something... Brexit, then you're doing better than me. We've reached the logical conclusion of hands-off, small-state governance, where 'the state' essentially does absolutely nothing other than dish out taxpayers money to their mates in return for providing the very basest, threadbare level of public services. They're just grifters.
It was Thatcher that coined the phrase 'managed decline'. There wasn't much 'managed' about it from where I saw it. It was just decline. Rapid decline, bordering on scorched earth decimation of our communities.
Now this lot have just taken that and run with it, happy to sit back as everything collapses as around us, because they and their disaster capitalist mates are doing quite nicely out of it
If one image summed up Thatchers time in power, then its this:
If you wanted one image to sum up this present government, its this
I love the way people on this forum flounce off when someone challenges their views. 😂
Maybe they should do this in parliament too? How long before Rishi legs it from PMQs after calling Starmer an evil troll?
Poor attempt to keep the pot boiling whilst the original combatants have let it go.
2/10
If you can find any ideology at work here other than…. erm… something, something… Brexit
Because you've only focused on Brexit and corruption. That's why you can't see it.
Oh lordy - the myth is that the private sector funds the state and the private sector needs to grow to make it work.
That is bullshit and demonstrably false. Remember *after* the pandemic Johnson announced - we are not socialists.
This is the point - all the scandals are obscuring this with noise.
Back to Sunak…
How is discussing whether Rishi Sunak has any idealogical commitment not about Sunak?
Unfortunately for Sunak
the Tory civil war is not slowing down
whoever is dripfeeding these leaks
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1670776878645346304
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65952298
WTF is Sunak running around a working hospital?
He wants to see what one looks like for when they get around to building those 40 new ones.
Also he wants to be as far away as possible from a parliamentary debate...
whoever is dripfeeding these leaks
Whoever could it be? Its a real mystery!
I'm sure that its purely coincidental that all this stuff, that hasn't made its way into the press for the last couple of years, suddenly all materialises in the days immediately after a certain person just flounced
How is discussing whether Rishi Sunak has any idealogical commitment not about Sunak?
Yeah a bit ridiculous given Sunak is a chief free-marketeer.
The editorial boundaries handed out around here are a cringe-worthy attempt to control political debate so it leans in one direction.
Naive too.
a cringe-worthy attempt to control political debate
Really? Err... I just posted a comment (after lots of other chatter about Thatcher and other contemporary concerns) by an MP about Sunak and his disappearing act when it comes to votes on the behaviour of fellow Tory MPs... sorry. Keep doing what you do. Which is posting the same point repeatedly in all political threads. I mean, it's a point I think is well worth repeating... to a degree. I'm not trying to "control" anything.
EDIT: Apparently it's meeting the Swedish prime minister that's keeping Sunak away from Johnson's big birthday vote.
"The Prime Minister is hosting the Swedish prime minister, a series of meetings and has an evening commitment, so obviously we will monitor what the situation is in Parliament but those are his commitments."
[ Telegraph Link ]
On behalf of the Swedish representation, I would like to apologise for giving your PM the opportunity to miss the vote.
However, I would like to point out that Uffe is also quite short, so any photos of them together do have the potential to be hilarious.
Shaun Bailey surely cant be still getting that peerage?
Its been made quite clear that its a done deal and all those people in Johnsons (dis)honours list will be duly picking up their baubles
Little Rishi doesn't want to do anything that might upset 'Big Dog' and his disciples. Thats why he rushed its approval through before all this kicked off. He must have had more than an inkling all this was in the offing.
I reckon Johnson must have put half the people on the honours list just for a laugh. A parting two fingers to us all and a headache for Rishi approving the most shameful honours list ever*
* I am aware that right now Liz Truss is probably saying 'hold my beer....'
I am aware that right now Liz Truss is probably saying ‘hold my beer….’
Crispin Odey is about to be made Earl of Wessex or something similar, presumably.
On the one hand, there were more people at that Jingle and Mingle than there were at my mum's funeral which was a few weeks before. On the other hand it didn't look like a significantly better party. If you're going to break the rules folks at least don't make it so shit.
I see the distractions being cranked up inevitably... So far we have "we need more stop and search", because nothing cheers a tory up quite like harrassing black kids. EXCEPT bullying trans kids in schools. So why not both?
I see the distractions being cranked up inevitably…
Indeed.
It looks like there were more Tory MPs at Jingle and Mingle gathering than there are in the House of Commons today
So far we have “we need more stop and search”, because nothing cheers a tory up quite like harrassing black kids.
The head of police federation was on radio 4 this morning saying about Cruellas demand to increase Stop & Search... and I'm paraphrasing here, but only slightly... 'she can **** right off and stop telling us how to do our jobs'
The Daily Mail will cream their silkies over the idea of more racial profiling though, which was all the 'announcement' was for.
"I see the distractions being cranked up inevitably… So far we have “we need more stop and search”, because nothing cheers a tory up quite like harrassing black kids. EXCEPT bullying trans kids in schools. So why not both?"
That the Tories seek to pick on minorities is nothing new but I find it interesting how little the trans issue has been discussed, either on mainstream media or more particularly on here,. Especially considering how trans women cyclists have been so succesfull in the women's category recently, (and this is a cycling forum after all) .
It's almost as if the topic it's too hot a potato to handle, much easier to ascribe any questioning of the situation to being far right nonsense. Which might be exactly what the Tories hope happens, because they know that like Brexit, it is an issue that crosses party lines and there are grounds to be made there.
Yes, the right wing media will cream their pants on the stop and search issue but any political capitol on the race issue has long been expended and I seriously doubt that the suggestion to ramp up stop and search will affect anyone's voting intentions.
On the other hand, trans issues could affect people's voting patterns, especially when you look at the population breakdown beyond the axis of left and right. Labour knows this and thats why they, (like the rest of us) are a bit scared to talk about it at the moment. Looking over the pond, it could be the issue that sinks Biden in 2024, especially if the Republicans end up selecting DeSantis.
Just listening to some twunt on R4 trying to defend Sunak's lack of backbone.
Who IS this ****?
Weren't they introduced?
He's even worse than Bob Seely on Newsnight last night
https://twitter.com/Zero_4/status/1670918236785848321?s=20
Rishi Sunak was ‘off doing frankly something more important’ at Parliament’s vote tonight on the report into Boris Johnson, says Conservative MP Bob Seely
Victoria Derbyshire: ‘Is Parliamentary democracy not important?’
I hope Victoria Derbyshire is now a permanent fixture on Newsnight. She's absolutely bloody brilliant! Theres no way these chancers and gaslighters are getting anything past her.
A good summary of Rishi's spinelessness by John Crace
https://twitter.com/JohnJCrace/status/1670881704578281497?s=20
The head of police federation was on radio 4 this morning saying about Cruellas demand to increase Stop & Search… and I’m paraphrasing here, but only slightly… ‘she can **** right off and stop telling us how to do our jobs’
The new boss of the Met (the bloke who told 30p Lee Anderson to get back in his box) was on the Newsagents Podcast yesterday explaining the same thing saying "I don't take this as orders, Mrs Braverman has her lane, I have mine"
Weren’t they introduced?
I started listening just after the start of the interview. He was still prattling when I posted.
Presumably it wasn't worth getting cross over anyway, eh?
The Tory MP presently drawn the short straw on Five Live at the moment is presently being given the job of defending Boris Johnsons (dis)honours list, Rishi's disappearance, dancing Tories at Jingle & Mingle parties and the constant deluge of other such nonsense. Theres a woman on who's voted Tory all her life, in tears recounting how her mother died alone while these lot were partying at Tory HQ
Meanwhile inflation is still sky high and the BoE are about to hike interest rates yet again this afternoon, tipping more people into crisis
If this government were a fighter, the towel would have been thrown in by now
Just **** off!!
Emily Maitlis on her podcast, suggested that Sunak's behaviour is down to a deal with Johnson, in which Johnson will leave him alone if he let him have most of his honours and didn't vote for the select committee in Parliament.
In some ways he's worse than Johnson and is absolutely weak as piss.
Emily Maitlis on her podcast, suggested that Sunak’s behaviour is down to a deal with Johnson, in which Johnson will leave him alone if he let him have most of his honours and didn’t for the select committee in Parliament.
Johnson will still be attacking him publicly via his proxies like Dorries and the rest of the headbangers, plus briefing against him privately whenever he gets the chance. If Sunak has struck such a deal, Johnson has done him over yet again.
So he's trusted Boris Johnson and taken him at his word?
Once again he's demonstrating that he's not very good at this politics lark, is he?
He's certainly demonstrated how utterly spineless and weak he is
There doesn't need to be a "deal"... Sunak knows that Johnson can, and if necessary will, wilfully further damage him and his party ahead of the next election... not a man you want to back into a corner.
Bugger this block quote thing.
Tried to quote and respond but doesn't seem to want to work so I've deleted my post.
Pledge to halve inflation by end of year looking ever more daft
meanwhile services are shagged at every level, mortgage holders are screwed, renters are screwed, poorest getting kicked hardest by inflation, itll be a generation for the damage from all this to play out
meanwhile Sunak is the invisible boy
meanwhile Sunak is the invisible boy
Not quite.
He's gone back into his default comfort zone and had a phone call with Zelenski abut something or other
I doubt a deal but clearly Sunack is scared of the headbangers and is trying not to upset them.
He had a perfect opportunity to withdraw the whip from all the ****s, a bit like Johnson did to a load of remainers when he became PM. Nothing would have imposed discipline in a clearer fashion, but of course he bottled it. Absolute fanny
The headbangers would be like turkeys voting for Xmas if they rebelled too far, highly likely a lot of them won't retain their seat at the next GE that cannot come soon enough, or even be an MP again.
Today's progress update on the 'five priorities'
Inflation not falling
Growth forecast to be second-lowest in G7 this year
National Debt at record levels
NHS Waiting Lists at record levels
Those boats are still coming
How long until the 'five pledges' disappear from Tory podiums?
Pledge to halve inflation by end of year looking ever more daft
Out of the five claimed priorities halving inflation seems the most realistic and achievable.
The BoE, OBR, and IMF, certainly all seem/seemed to agree.
But quite why that would represent a particularly important achievement I am not entirely certain.
Growth forecast to be second-lowest in G7 this year
That doesn't sound particularly damning. Out of the 7 countries one is obviously going to experience less growth than the other 6. I am sure that Rishi Sunak will be relieved if it isn't the UK.
Could be worse. If you look at growth when pre-pandemic levels are taken into account, we're joint bottom of the G7, still below where we were in 2019.
IMF are forecasting significantly lower growth here than in the Eurozone next year.
Once again he’s demonstrating that he’s not very good at this politics lark, is he?
The fact that he's risen from the backbenches to be PM in a few short years, displacing one of the most popular tory leaders in history would strongly suggest that he's actually very good at politics.
But quite why that would represent a particularly important achievement I am not entirely certain.
It isnt. It was probably put it to give one they could achieve.
Hence that currently its proving difficult for them isnt a good sign.
Maybe he means inflation is half what it will be
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1671413701247655936?s=20
A great summary of all the stuff we've been going on about with interest rates and inflation.
Once again the wrong tool for the job and the government can over-rule the BoE.
This whole thing was mechanically and rationally avoidable.
Its not just events outside the country. Brexit contributes significantly as do tory policies. Why are the eurozone counties doing better?
Have to agree Rone. If they are worried about upward pressure on wages... increasing everyone's mortgage or rent payments isn't going to decrease that pressure. People will need pay rises to stay in their homes. Apart from the older mortgage paid home owning Tory voter of course...
Deliberately increasing living costs during a cost of living crisis is like trying to put out a fire with petrol.
Some little bits of Murphy's thread... but it's worth reading it all...
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1671413735825522691?s=20
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1671415400121204736?s=20
Maybe he means inflation is half what it will be
That's the kind of thinking Rishi is looking for. Would you be interested in a role at Conservative Central HQ? Shitty jumpers, red braces and a flexible attitude to observing the law preferred but not essential.
Inflation not falling
Growth forecast to be second-lowest in G7 this year
National Debt at record levels
NHS Waiting Lists at record levels
Those boats are still comingHow long until the ‘five pledges’ disappear from Tory podiums?
Shows what a mess eveything is that susbstantial forcecasts (expansion) and *debt* lowering levels (contraction) can't both happen at the same time.
Idiots.
Why are the eurozone counties doing better?
It depends what you call doing better.
Eurozone has entered recession:
Whilst the UK is expected to avoid recession:
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2023/may/23/imf-uk-recession-tax-cuts-jeremy-hunt-debt
Eurozone has entered recession:
from that link...
"The UK avoided entering a recession at the start of the year, while growth in the US also remained positive. However, GDP volumes in the eurozone and the EU are more than 2% higher than the level recorded in the final quarter of 2019 before the Covid pandemic struck – unlike in the UK, where the economy remains 0.5% smaller."
We are slowly climbing out of a bigger hole. Not that it benefits the people of the UK... with very high inflation and having rising mortgage/rent rates being piled on top of that.
"Inflation across the eurozone has fallen sharply in recent months, with the annual rate cooling from a peak of 10.6% last autumn to reach 6.1% in May – fuelling speculation that the European Central Bank could be near the end of its cycle of interest rate increases to tame rapid growth in prices."
Let's also not forget that we were never in the Eurozone... and the EU countries not in the Eurozone... our past status... have higher growth than us, without the post Brexit and Covid related fall that we're imperceptibly slowly crawling back from.