I tend to agree that they are locked in a circle of ever moving to the right and stoking culture wars. I think they will retreat to that. Maybe not its no sure thing but although the "sensible" [part of the party is still there they have lost all power. The membership has reduced to an extremist rump
breatheeasy - its not easy to keep track for sure
I think Sunak is probably safe for now for a number reasons - there are no real sanctions for misleading parliament / lying, he used weasel words rather than categorical statements and the tories really do not want another leadership election. After a disaster at the locals tho and with Johnson agitating to come back anything could happen
I don’t know which is the greater signifier to the depths to which we’ve sunk - a country where the man in charge of HMRC is fined for tax irregularities or a country where Greggs vouchers is a thing
What a time to be alive!
I note Ernie has shied away from becoming the next member of the forum to have to buy my steak bakes.
All mouth and no pasties, that lad 😉
My missus put things in perspective on Friday, after she'd spent the evening volunteering at what is basically a soup kitchen/food bank.
"Surely it should be impossible for Labour to lose the next election? The Tories are so utterly out of touch. People literally can't afford to eat and the chair of their party was paying a million quid fine, on top of five million in unpaid taxes. While he was chancellor! They have no concept of the effects of their decisions.
She's right it should be impossible for SKS to lose, but the GE is still a long way off, this country is full of morons and SKS isn't utterly inspiring...
As it stand I couldn't in good conscience cast a vote that helps put another Tory in parliament, sadly that includes splitting the difference and voting for one of the other parties that perhaps represent my views a bit more closely, I'd have to say Labour basically has my sewn up vote right now. Please don't let them go off the rails over the next couple of years...
I don’t know which is the greater signifier to the depths to which we’ve sunk
Has it ever been any different? I know it’s difficult to compare the current shitshow of a govt to anything else but we’ve always had corruption, incompetence, venality and arrogance as a feature of our govt whoever is in power. The ‘depths’ are where we’ve always been, but we ignore them now and again if other stuff is going ok.
cookea
the problem is we are fighting an integrated propaganda machine as well and a rigged electoral system
How much of a problem is it TJ?
The fact that Zahawi was forced to pay several million pounds in tax to settle a dispute with HMRC was revealed to the world by a Tory supporting newspaper.
The integrated propaganda machine doesn't seem to be benefiting the Tories much these days. The very latest poll:
https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1618992138657857536
And the reason Labour are possibly going to have a huge landslide victory in the coming general election is because of our rigged electoral system.
These issues aren't really quite the problem some people make them out to be. Although they are often used as excuses to justify electoral failure.
To be honest I don’t care anymore, i was very invested in the downfall of Boris and the unbelievable Trusster Cluck but im beyond bored now as I suspect are the majority of the population. The only thing I’m interested in now is the next election, I have no faith that the system, either political or legal, will hold any of them to account.
I'm at the same point, just counting down the days to the point where I can help get them out of power. The rouble is that it's probably exactly what they want right now as they can then carry on destroying everything for their own gains. I have no doubt that they know they'll be annihilated for an electoral cycle or two and are actually just focussing on creating as many traps for Labour as they can, stuff they can leverage to get back in power ASAP. They must be thinking that if they accelerate the damage now then Labour won't be able to undo it all fast enough, they can then come back in and continue. Sort of that they can now take 3 steps forward rather than the usual 2, Labour will get us one step back while they can but the overall move will be a 1 step gain for the Tories. It's a bloody scary thought!
I note Ernie has shied away from becoming the next member of the forum to have to buy my steak bake
s.All mouth and no pasties, that lad 😉
If it took them a while to elect the next one then inflation would mean your £20 gift card would possibly stretch to 1 Steak Bake!
binners - does your devotion to Greggs extend to being a shareholder?
Stock market launch May 1993 58.3p/share; closing price 27 Jan 2023 £28.56/share.
A 45 fold increase in 30 years plus divis - or, even better, re-investment.
As a proud geordie whose mother shopped at greggs since their earliest local NE shops I should have invested - but didn't.
Another ho hum.
Sure Ernie. Labour do not need 10% higher national polling to get an equal number of seats. There are plenty of labour supporting newspapers and the broadcast media are even handed.
At the moment the tory press are supporting factions withing the tory party as a part of the jockeying for position. come the campaign we will see the usual onslaught of anti labour propaganda being pumped out
Why are labour so timid? Fear of the tory press.
Sure Ernie. Labour do not need 10% higher national polling to get an equal number of seats. There are plenty of labour supporting newspapers and the broadcast media are even handed.
If it was that much of a problem we would never have Labour governments. It is massively exaggerated and used as an excuse for failure. Are you suggesting that all recent opinion polls are false?
The press biase in favour of the Tories isn't going to change any time soon. So stop whingeing and making excuses.
Very few voters are billionaires. But do you hear the Tories whingeing "it's not fair, everything is stacked against us"?
And of course vote supression in the form of mandatory ID
I'm not whinging and making excuses. I was pointing out a some of the reasons why the tories win so many elections in England
I was pointing out a some of the reasons why the tories win so many elections in England
I saw it as you putting the dampers on cookea's post by lowering expectations.
I reckon only a miracle could guarantee the Tories winning next year's general election.
Whatever the Tory newspapers say and the concentration of Labour urban votes.
And you missed one obvious reason btw, Labour tend to be shite at winning elections. The Tories on the other hand are masters of exploiting disasters which they themselves are responsible for.
The Tories on the other hand are masters of exploiting disasters which they themselves are responsible for.
And how do you think they do that?
Aside from a friendly press who are willing to report the lies.
A great example is the great PR expert Cameron.
We got endless lines about his genius up until the point where he went against the right wing rags at which point he got slaughtered and it became obvious that his PR job at a crap tv channel which his mummy had organised for him hadnt made him a PR genius.
Voter suppression?
We'll be able to assess the initial effect at the local elections in May.
That comment does not imply I'm undecided about it.
It is, unequivocally, voter suppression; unjustified, without foundation, undemocratic and immoral.
Given the clarity of Laurie Magnus's comments, Starmer should push forcefully for all ministers to formally - and on the record - confirm their adherence to the nolan principles.
Additionally, they should be required to demonstrate that the tests Magnus applied/questions asked would be answered to the satisfaction of an independent reviewer who is completely separate to and independent of the 'independent' ethics advisor; yes, I know, too many independents.
Aside but, just popped onto the bbc site for something else and on the front page Zahawi is now just in the sidebar, with Boris Johnson and Ukraine as the main story and "over 50s at work" being more newsworthy. On the "Uk" tab it's a picture story but off the bottom of the front page...
Of course, they have their man looking after the BBC now. It currently still reports the stories but they do their best to play down their significance and push other stories to bury the bad stuff now. Boris being threatened by Putin is nothing special, he does it to everyone, but it creates a good distraction story.
I think the media barons have now abandoned the tories as largely an irrelevance at the next election, they will now use their outlets to influence labour policy. Same as the oligarchs, I expect labour fundraising to be boosted considerably between now and the next election as the rich switch horses and try to buy influence over policy direction.
Yep, people with money tend to know where to best put it and buying Labour MPs is clearly the better use of money now than buying Tory MPs.
TBH I think we can expect the BBC news to be so out of kilter with reality the more that surfaces.
I can’t believe something hasn’t surfaced about the sunaks finances yet, perhaps they are having a hard time getting the accounts looking safe to publish.
Has Rishi booked a flight?
Check the QR code for booking info....
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I don’t think any Tory politician has ended up in jail for over 20 years. Not since Jonathan Aitken.
Edit: Today’s bad boys are lightweights…… the best they can manage is Fixed Penalty Notices.
How gullible are you?
It's because they've learned how to either not get caught, and ensure that if they are, it's better 'managed'.
Nice little fight seeming to be starting now, poor tax dodger zahawi clearly thinks he has been done over by sunak.
Which round of the tory big fight live are we on now?
How gullible are you?
It’s because they’ve learned how to either not get caught, and ensure that if they are, it’s better ‘managed’.
Not gullible enough to make this statement:
I shall vote Tory at the next election. At least with them there is the entertainment factor of wondering which one is going to be next to wind up in jail.
No Tory MP has gone to jail for over 20 years. The entertainment factor of wondering which one is going to be next to wind up in jail is unlikely to be huge.
HTH
Aitken and Archer both got caught lying in court. Viewed rather more seriously than tax avoidance etc
Mone could end up in jail. Seems the most likely candidate. Not hugely likely tho
Aitken and Archer both got caught lying in court.
Which is why they ended up in prison.
Sunak still hasn't seen The Thick of It has he? He's on the news again thanking nurses for the important work that they do. 😀
It's really quite funny watching him on these Q&A sessions. Never in my life have I seen a prime minister so lacking in gravitas and substance. He comes across as a PR consultant who's landed his first job and is super enthusiastic but knows bugger all.
I think I've made this analogy before... he comes across like a temporary head flown into a struggling school giving his speech to the parents... lots of smiles and enthusiasm... doesn't dare do a Q&A at the end because he hasn't got a clue.
TBF he looks more comfortable talking to the public rather than the media, although he has quite a talent for patronising explanations about stuff. His mansplainy lecture on inflation and wage price spirals was something to behold. His biggest problem though is that most of his answers are about stuff he can't do and he's very good at explaining why he can't do something.
TBF he looks more comfortable talking to the public rather than the media
Well, I belly laughed at that. His contacts with the public have always been disastrous. And I'm not just talking the "Mexican Coke" and holding a payment card against a glass window stuff. People might be polite and not call him out to his face, but you know what they leave an encounter with him thinking. And what impression such encounters have on any observers. Well, except perhaps people who work for hedgefunds (the ones that aren't homeless).
His contacts with the public have always been disastrous.
Don't mistake stage managed photo opportunities for what he's doing now. I don't recall Johnson doing Q&As with nurses and doctors.
Sunak is saying its time to "move on" from Zahawi which means its pretty clear there is more to come out and more questions to be answered especially about what he knew when
Pretty obvious he was reluctant to sack Zahawi as it opens the floodgates for pro-Johnson MPs to have a pop at him. Judging by the reports this morning about MPs being 'furious' at how Zahawi has been treated that's exactly what is happening.
Judging by the reports this morning about MPs being ‘furious’ at how Zahawi has been treated that’s exactly what is happening.
I'm struggling to imagine anywhere else that such an attitude would be tolerated.
Breach of ministerial code (plus the general lying about it, the attempts to hush it up using libel laws to prevent it being reported...)
Sacked (and even then it's a very gentle sacking - he's still a backbench MP, still on his £85k/yr salary)
And now MPs are "furious how he's been treated" ??!!
If anyone at my workplace had done even half of that, their feet wouldn't have touched the ground as they were sacked and anyone expressing sympathy for them would be up in front of HR for a little discussion about workplace ethics.
The Guardian opened up the can of worms nicely with an article about the route they've all gone through to get where they are now - this aura of entitlement the moment they set foot into Eton or Winchester...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/29/elitist-leadership-zahawi-schools-britain
And now MPs are “furious how he’s been treated” ??!!
Are they really though? Or is it more likely that it's Johnson's merry band of travellers using the opportunity to turn the party and the media against Sunak? These are the early stages of a campaign to get rid of him in the summer and replace him with Johnson. I'm pretty sure everything we're seeing in the media is being orchestrated by Johnson's people.
Well I'm assuming that one is satire... after the bath one, I'm not so sure.
I couldn't believe the bath photo.
Mainly because I worked next to Ian Maxwell and could never imagine him putting his name to sonething like that.
I assume he cares **** all about about Andrew but is concerned about his sister
Breaches of the ministerial code over tax affairs is a very serious issue, but I don't understand how it appears to consume people in a way which the Windrush scandal doesn't seem to.
Yes Zahawi is dodgy, and Rishi Sunak's reluctance to do anything until forced to do so is deplorable, but IMO Windrush is a far worse scandal that has actually had a devastating affect on innocent people's lives.
A couple of days ago the main BBC evening news gave the latest update on the scandal, even the Daily Telegraph reported it:
But unless I missed it no one has mentioned it on this thread.
I am appalled but hardly surprised that a wealthy Tory tries to avoid paying taxes. I am appalled and angry over the Windrush Scandal.
It was talked about recently in the Suella Braverman thread. Brought up by you there as well. One of the biggest scandals of the last hundred years. No one is interested in the lies around a recent chancellor instead of longer running “failings” by this government, but as well as. The story of a chancellor trying to avoid paying millions of pounds of tax owed, and using legal threats to try and muzzle those investigating him… that is a big current story and deserves attention in its own right. As is the judgment of a series of PMs who appointed him, and the not recent one defending him (we’re supposed to forget that is exactly what Sunak was doing a matter of days ago).
[ I say failings, but it’s not just carelessness that’s the cause IMHO, but a system designed to fail people. ]
No it wasn't. That above link to the latest update concerning the Windrush Scandal was from Friday. It has not been mentioned recently on the Braverman thread. In fact nothing has been posted on the Braverman thread for over a week.
It is obviously not considered to be that important.
Oh but hold the front page......a Tory politician has been caught lying!
Edit for your edit :
Brought up by you there as well.
Yeah I regularly bring it up, why don't you?
I constantly hear punters on stw banging on about how racist voters apparently are, but when it comes to actual blatant racism which affects people's lives I am astonished at the lack of interest.
It is important. Both issues are. One is currently a bigger story because someone who held the second most important post in government this year had been attempting to withhold tax and then silence people pointing it out. It wasn’t just “some Tory lying”, it was someone for whom the buck ultimately stops as regards tax collection paying a huge penalty for avoiding evading paying tax owed, and then attempting to keep that quiet through vexatious legal threats.
