Would a red waller vote reform over labour?
Surely starmer has proved himself enough of a **** that his beloved Tory voters would vote for him.
I reckon the fact that Farage failed 7 times to win a parliamentary seat somewhat undermines the narrative espoused by some with regards to his alleged huge personal electoral appeal.
7 parliamentary losses vs 1 referendum.
Not quite sure how you do the maths in these things but the UK appears to be out of the EU so I think Farage won in the end. It was never about winning seats, it was about siphoning off votes that would otherwise go to the Tories.
I can't remember which thread it was on but I honestly think the only way to make your vote count in UK elections is to vote for single issue parties. Mainstream parties don't give a shit about you when you vote for them. Why would they? They've already got everything they need from you.
The only way to get mainstream parties to do what you want is to not vote for them. UKIP knew this which is why they won.
The problem is, sensible people don't vote for single issue parties. Sensible people vote for mainstream parties because they don't want to 'waste' their vote. Hence why there are no parties running on a ticket of solely electoral reform or getting back in the EU/CU/SM or any other sensible policy.
Sensible policies are for mainstream parties. Trouble is, sensible people are already voting for them so there are no votes in actually pursuing sensible policies so instead the mainstream parties chase the non-sensible voters by pursuing stupid policies.
So yay, Vote Labour!
mainstream parties chase the non-sensible voters by pursuing stupid policies
Something Starmer is doing by stating that there is no economic case to rejoin the EU, despite the massive elephant just behind him stating the opposite.
But hey, it seems my contributions are not wanted somehow, so I'm out. I don't know what axes are being ground but I know when I'm not welcome.
Suffice to say that, whatever attempted re-branding people try, the phrase 'A bit Brexity' will always mean the same thing in general parlance. In spite of whatever sophistry the apologists try to come up with.
Au revoir.
Not quite sure how you do the maths in these things but the UK appears to be out of the EU so I think Farage won in the end.
It is strange the conclusions that people can come to when events don't suit their narrative.
The idea that voters voted to leave the EU because of the personal persuasive power and appeal of Farage is obviously nonsense.
For an extremely high profile politician to make 7 attempts to win a parliamentary seat and fail every single time is staggering, in fact I reckon it is probably safe to say unprecedented.
Farage stood for election in seats where UKIP enjoyed the highest possible level of support and yet still failed to win.
The obvious question is why? The obvious answer is because he didn't appeal to voters.
moimoifan Free Member
Au revoir.
You'll be missed Danny, don't leave it too long 😢
The obvious question is why?
Already been said many times and you have ignored it every time.
The goal was to siphon votes from the Tories forcing them to become more and more UKIP.
It worked.
Farage stood for election in seats where UKIP enjoyed the highest possible level of support and yet still failed to win.
The obvious question is why?
Already been said many times and you have ignored it every time.
The goal was to siphon votes from the Tories forcing them to become more and more UKIP.
I can't say that I have ever heard it claimed that Nigel Farage personally stood for parliament 7 times not to win but to siphon votes from the Tories.
That is a completely new one to me. Does Farage know this? He seemed really pissed off the last time when he failed to win Thanet. He looked very convinced that he was going to win before the count.
Edit: Oh and btw the Tories still managed to win South Thanet the last time Farage stood. He didn't even "siphon" enough votes to result in the Tories losing.
Patrick Bateman has resigned, off to spend more time with the bodies secreted about his house
I see he's issued the usual graceless, self-justifying non-apology so beloved of this lot and made himself the hard-done-by victim
Love that he actually said "well, the inquiry only found me guilty of two of the claims" as if that was okay!!!
I see he’s issued the usual graceless, self-justifying non-apology so beloved of this lot and made himself the hard-done-by victim
It was the woke liberal leftie lawyers and their ridiculously low threshold for "bullying" wot dun it. How petty to suggest that screaming abuse at someone because they used a full stop instead of a colon is bullying! How dare they imagine for a moment that reducing your staff to tears is in any way unprofessional!
Still, the fact that Raab resigned does at least mean Sunak doesn't need to make a decision. He's good at not making decisions.
Oh bless, what an optimistic view!
It’ll be like every other report into Government wrongdoing, partygate etc. There’ll be “lessons learnt” and “reviews to ensure this can never happen again” and naturally poor misunderstood Raaaab will only have been doing his best in incredibly challenging circumstances and I’m sure that the civil service will be called a bunch of woke snowflakes unable to cope with his extraordinary management skills…
And that’s if the report is critical. It could completely exonerate him! Bullying?! Nope, didn’t find any of that…
That aged well crazy legs 🙂 sorry but I couldn't resist
Yes and no. Raab still managed to come up with most of that as an excuse! 😉
He believes he behaved professionally at all times, much like Boris Johnson believed he was abiding by the rules at all times and Sunak believed that all his interests were declared...
They really do struggle with reality, this lot don't they?!
I can’t say that I have ever heard it claimed that Nigel Farage personally stood for parliament 7 times not to win but to siphon votes from the Tories.
That is a completely new one to me. Does Farage know this? He seemed really pissed off the last time when he failed to win Thanet. He looked very convinced that he was going to win before the count.
Edit: Oh and btw the Tories still managed to win South Thanet the last time Farage stood. He didn’t even “siphon” enough votes to result in the Tories losing.
You do realise the UK is out of the EU, right? And the Tories keep announcing racist policies? And even Labour are getting in on the act?
UKIP won, get over it.
What a graceless non apology that is tho. Just like the man
Still, the fact that Raab resigned does at least mean Sunak doesn’t need to make a decision
Are you sure that he wasn't sacked? According to the Guardian just now:
Sunak suggested in February that if Tolley concluded that his deputy had fallen short of the standards expected of somebody in his position, he would be sacked. However, the lawyer’s remit was solely to “establish the facts” of Raab’s conduct and it was left to the prime minister to decide whether he should face sanction.
"When I’m presented with conclusive independent findings that someone in my government has not acted with the integrity or standards that I would expect of them, I won’t hesitate to take swift and decisive action,” he said at the time.
UKIP won, get over it.
Now that's something that I don't expect to hear from an extreme Remainer. Yeah Bruce how about you getting over it, as you put it?
You do realise the UK is out of the EU, right? And the Tories keep announcing racist policies? And even Labour are getting in on the act?
UKIP won, get over it.
Support for Brexit and right wing policies is not the same thing as Farage having popular personal appeal.
I want to read the report.
Raab says the report and inguiry "setting the threshold for bullying so low, this inquiry has set a dangerous precedent"
He demands the right to treat underlings as they deserve, and refuses to admit that his own threshold may be in fact too high. What a guy! A new role awaits, striding topless around the pool smoking stogie's with Andrew Tate, surely?
'All but two...'. Two then as in more than zero. Ergo a workplace bully. Just **** off.
Probably jumped before he was pushed.
this
the fact he shouldve been sacked for incompetence long ago seems to be ignored in all this
Yeah Bruce how about you getting over it, as you put it?
I did.
I realised that the only way to effect change in the UK's current system of government is to vote for single issue parties in order to force the mainstream parties to chase my vote.
Now I just need a UK party with a fanatical commitment to constitutional reform and a return to the EU to vote for.
Until then I'll stick with the SNP.
Will Therese Coffey be reappointed Deputy Prime Minister now?
That would be fun.
I assume that Raab wanted the bullying threshold set slightly higher than the level of bullying that he was operating at.
Off you pop Dominic.
the fact he should've been sacked for incompetence long ago seems to be ignored in all this
The fact that he, as foreign secretary, didn't see the fall of Kabul as a reason to leave the beach tells you everything you need to know about his attitude to ministerial responsibility
He may as well have elaborately shrugged and issued a statement saying ****'em!
quite a nice line from Starmer
On Raab's claims the inquiry was flawed, Starmer says he doesn't know why the former deputy PM "thinks anybody wants to hear about his whining about having to resign".
the full quote not the Beeb edited version
I don’t know why Dominic Raab, in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, thinks that anybody wants to hear about his whining about having to resign.
it's not a great look for Sunak, dithered for 24 hrs then has the rug pulled from under him by a dumbass :/
The fact that he, as foreign secretary, didn’t see the fall of Kabul as a reason to leave the beach tells you everything you need to know about his attitude to ministerial responsibility
I think you're missing his earlier Opus Magnum when as Brexit secretary he openly declared that he didn't know that Dover was a major part of our trade with the EU whilst he was negotiating with the EU.
Thick as Mince, corrupt as hell (both morally and in the more conventional sense)
Oh I do enjoy a bit of schadenfreude. Made my day this has
Watch out for a Rishi masterstroke.
Have a reshuffle coz Robot Raab is gone, and out with Braverman now he doesn't need her.
That would be lovely to watch
The lack of self-awareness in some people is just frightening, but i guess that's part of the ridiculous levels of self-confidence that many of these muppets enjoy.
But when someone actually points it out, either by comment or a full review taking evidence from all parties, to be so self unaware that your response is that he's still right and everyone else is just over-sensitive.....
If someone fed back to me that that was the way my behaviour was coming across, I'd be mortified and doing all i could to change it. Probably knowing my character traits, even suicidal.
Not Dom, oh no, it's everyone else!
In reaching and implementing this management choice he acted in a way
which was intimidating, in the sense of unreasonably and persistently
aggressive conduct in the context of a work meeting. It also involved
an abuse or misuse of power in a way that undermines or humiliates. He
introduced an unwarranted punitive element. His conduct was
experienced as undermining or humiliating by the affected individual,
which was inevitable. It is to be inferred that the DPM was aware that
this would be the effect of his conduct; at the very least, he should have
been aware.
So Sunak read this yesterday morning and was mulling over shall I keep him or not !
Sunak still hasn't actually said anything on the matter, so presumably he's too scared to come out from underneath his desk in case Psycho Raab is waiting for him
The thing is Dominic Raab actually reminds me of the slightly geeky and soft sissy boy that everyone had a tendency to cruelly pick on at school.
I have a vision of a visible pulse throbbing away in Raab's temple as he carves the word BASTARDS into his desk, kicks his bin and slams the door off its hinges as he leaves.
Interestingly he is 3rd Dan Karate. I bet he's a horrible ****er to fight against. The sort of sly git who would kick you in the knee and take a warning, then try and punch your lights out because you can't get out of the way.
His general demeanour would suggest you're right Ernesto. He's clearly a thoroughly unpleasant person and potentially a psychopath.
I think he always looks like he's just been interrupted while cutting up the body of a murdered prostitute in his bath
What's the betting that Raab gets another minesterial role before this lot finally get booted out at the next GE? I reckon he's aiming at beating Braverman's 6 day bounce back.
What’s the betting that Raab gets another minesterial role before this lot finally get booted out at the next GE? I reckon he’s aiming at beating Braverman’s 6 day bounce back.
Even Sunak, famous as he is for walking into traps (as @tjagain mentioned a few pages back), isn't quite that dumb. Raab himself probably isn't that stupid - he might have been able to save himself if he'd have shown an ounce of contrition, a slight acceptance that the problem might, just might, have been him but he hasn't.
He's doubled down on his behaviour and issued the mother of all non-apologies.
I see that Sunak has accepted Raab's resignation "with great sadness" and also put a jibe in about the "shortcomings" in the process of the investigation...
Tolley expressly points out that Bullying has no legal definition although he sets out his guidelines for the sake of the report;
there was a broad consensus that conduct would fall within the description of ‘bullying’ if it can be characterised as:(1) Offensive, intimidating, malicious or insulting behaviour; or (2) Abuse or misuse of power in ways that undermine, humiliate, denigrate or injure the recipient
It's worth noting that Raab describes this as: “setting the threshold for bullying so low, this inquiry has set a dangerous precedent”
I would love to know where he thinks that bar should be set? Physical beating presumably
Certainly sounds to me as though the bullies are sulking because they have been told they can't bully as much.
I get the impression that this is being lined up to feed the "woke leftie civil servant snowflakes" narrative, and the process will be tweaked to suit the government even more.
He always reminded me of Simon, the dim-witted holiday camp manager from the sit-com Hi-di-Hi.
Coild do a remake and call it 'Heil-di-Heil'.
I get the impression that this is being lined up to feed the “woke leftie civil servant snowflakes” narrative, and the process will be tweaked to suit the government even more.
I think it's worse than that. It's going to be the deep state controlling who can be in government. Raab has already started it in his resignation letter.
Whilst I feel duty bound to accept the outcome of the inquiry, it dismissed all but two of the claims levelled against me. I also believe that its two adverse findings are flawed and set a dangerous precedent for the conduct of good government.
First, ministers must be able to exercise direct oversight with respect to senior officials over critical negotiations conducted on behalf of the British people, otherwise the democratic and constitutional principle of ministerial responsibility will be lost. This was particularly true during my time as foreign secretary, in the context of the Brexit negotiations over Gibraltar, when a senior diplomat breached the mandate agreed by cabinet.
That's some dangerous shit right there.
Ah yes, Hi-di-Hi, that's it!
nickc - in raab's distorted view physical beating would be OK as would a little light torture.
Anything beyond that would - probably - be regarded as unacceptable.
He completely misses the point with that example (accepting we don't have all the facts yet)
If an official has acted outside their powers, then they should be sanctioned.
You don't bully, harass, intimidate them. Not unless you are a sociopath.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal
The ever excellent Marina Hyde. 🙂
Is that all the Britannia Unchained authors licked out of government now?
Rabb, Patel, Kwarteng, Truss.
bunch of loonies the lot of them. Skidmore, the other author and non-entity is stepping down at the next election. I think I see the same for some of the others in their futures.
You feel the Tories are moving to the left?
Channel 4 news are reporting that one of the senior civil servants says he warned Raab repeatedly about the way he spoke to staff. Raab says he has no recollection of ever being warned
Hmmmmmmm… who to believe?
Ree Smug is now on justifying it all, obvs
Apparently ministers should be allowed to swear at people aggressively, belittling and humiliating them and there is no obligation on them to treat people with respect
Mind you, we are talking about people who regard being buggered in a boarding school dormitory as a right of passage (no pun intended)
I also keep wondering if Raab knows what Kafkaesque actually means. I think I probably know the answer. I’d put my house on the fact that he’s never read a word of it.
This is the man who thought reading the 32 pages og the Good Friday Agreement was too much effort
https://twitter.com/damian_barr/status/1649371914371047424?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
it's a horror movie called "the Blob" where faceless bureaucrats make you read important documents in comic sans
lets face it everyone know yer a wrong un' if Littlejohn and Farage are in your corner.
Let's not forget he also had an injunction against him for harassing a woman (allegedly)
https://twitter.com/mi6rogue/status/1545869633135300609?t=bkrxFh3vKZ3B0QsBQA9MZA&s=19
Really ****ing angry at the usual suspects in tne Press running with the civil service undermining the democratic will of the people and making the country "ungovernable"
The tone deaf arrogance of Raab and further fuelling the culture war is sickening.
I've also had a bit of a chance to read some of the report and one thing that immediately stands out is a quote from the Ministerial Code
Harassing, bullying or other inappropriate or discriminating behaviour wherever it takes place is not consistent with the Ministerial Code and will not be tolerated.
Reiterated further when reissued in 2019
There must be no bullying and no harassment …
So whether he and his supporters feel the threshold for bullying is getting too low, the code is harassment, and from what I've read that is pretty clear. Indeed - when he has a reputation and/or you have seen that manifest in the types of behaviours that are reported (but in some cases not proven / still hearsay) then whether you personally are subjected to that behaviour or not - having and to an extent cultivating that image to keep people scared of him is in my mind a form of harassment and bullying anyway.
Really **** angry at the usual suspects in tne Press running with the civil service undermining the democratic will of the people and making the country “ungovernable”
And repeated on radio and tv media.
Really **** angry at the usual suspects in tne Press running with the civil service undermining the democratic will of the people and making the country “ungovernable”
Yep, the BBC headlines are focusing more on Rab's attack lines on the "militant civil service" rather than the fact he has been found guilty of bullying. You would think he was the victim in all this.
Thats a classic BBC taking its "neutrality" from the midpoint of the press. If the right wing papers talk about how he was forced out unfairly then the bbc will use that line.
I had no idea that Dominic Raab had turned a safe Tory seat with huge majority of almost 20k in 2010 into a marginal seat with a majority of only 2,743 in 2019.
I don't think there is any doubt that he won't be re-elected in 18 months time.
You would think he was the victim in all this.
From his own resignation letter, his subsequent Torygraph piece (which was published suspiciously quickly after the resignation) to all the further press coverage, there was clearly a pre-ordained and Co-ordinated campaign to make that the narrative
I would not be remotely surprised to see this ‘Enemies of the People’ bollocks lead to a government campaign of attrition against senior civil servants and I fully expect that Raabs exile to the backbenches will last about as long as Suella Bravermans.
It’s about as credible as Mad Lizzies recent insane ‘deep state’ whiterings, but they’ve obviously got a receptive audience amongst Daily Mail readers who somehow believe that the civil service, the BBC etc are all run by communists
It’s about as credible as Mad Lizzies recent insane ‘deep state’ whiterings, but they’ve obviously got a receptive audience amongst Daily Mail readers
It should perhaps not be forgotten that Liz Truss's premiership only lasted 49 days precisely because she was so deeply unpopular with Tory voters, not because the Guardian newspaper didn't approve of her.
The last opinion poll before Rishi Sunak became Tory leader gave Labour a 33% lead over the Tories. More than half the electorate said that they would vote Labour.
Yes, but in the deranged world view of Truss, produced by the yawning chasm between her ears, nothing is her fault, EVER!
It obviously must have been a conspiracy by the ‘deep state’ and ‘the economic orthodoxy’ that brought her down, not her own limitless stupidity
Don’t forget that all the esteemed organs of the popular press now defending Raab with ridiculous conspiracy theories also hailed Liz Truss as an economic genius when she revealed her unhinged tax cutting agenda
Yeah but it didn't work. Liz Truss was gone in 49 days. Quite a remarkable achievement for someone fully backed by populist tabloids.
She was gone in 49 days because she cost the comfortable, middle class Tory voters actual money.
Her debt-fuelled, tax-cutting, Uber-neoliberal economic suicide vest detonated in the leafy Home Counties suburbs. ‘Natural’ Tory voters watched their pension pots shrink as their mortgage payments went up
There’s no coming back from that. Ask John Major.
I’m convinced that all those more affluent southern constituencies that ALWAYS deliver Tory MPs will let ‘The Natural Party of Government’ do what the hell it likes politically, the expectation (rightly) being that they will ALWAYS be the beneficiaries of any policy
Once that is clearly no longer the case, you’re done
I doubt being compared to a lettuce helped much, but it wasn’t that that sunk her. She did that all by herself.
Liz was gone because she hit the Tory core vote in their bank balances with her economic lunacy. Simple as that.
Rishi is where he is now because he clearly articulated throughout the entire protracted leadership campaign exactly what would happen if she went ahead with her insane agenda and he was proved calamitously correct
nothing is her fault, EVER!
It's quite Stalinist. Nothing can be the fault of the idea, of the centre. It must either be weaklings not doing it properly, or traitors deliberately to sabotage it. so by default you become the victim. It's quite a narcissism.
I missed this from.a few days ago but it's worth linking...
https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1647942981607997448?t=A1OUu2CCwG6mMrmuXIJzCg&s=19
They've stuck their oar in with the whole Raab thing as well.
It’s quite Stalinist. Nothing can be the fault of the idea, of the centre. It must either be weaklings not doing it properly, or traitors deliberately to sabotage it. so by default you become the victim. It’s quite a narcissism.
Its a cult I find absolutely inexplicable. It chooses to ignore the absolutely enormous weight of evidence against their bizarre economic ideology, despite having a front row seat to witness its catastrophic implosion, and seeks to lay the blame anywhere and everywhere other than where it obviously belongs.
There are still a rump of Tory MPs who would do the whole thing again tomorrow, as this time it would definitely work, if only if it weren't for those pesky traitors and saboteurs
When it comes to alternative universes though, check out GeeBeebies. They've actually come out and said that its Raab himself who is definitely the victim of bullying 😳
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1649646832778375169?s=20
So now we've got the spectacle of the new deputy PM Dowden defending the appointment of Richard Sharp while he was culture minister
Deputy PM seems a bit of a non role, not sure why Sunak bothered?
He comes across as someone who went for an audition for a bit part in an am dram performance of a musical, accidentaly went in the wrong room and got appointed as a government minister by mistake
Rayner will absolutely destroy him!
In other news, Raab has apparently got his next gig already as a presenter on GeeBeebies, to which the only response is ‘of course he has’ 🙄
The state of that Conservative Home editor. Although he looks exactly as you'd expect, TBH.
Also, this seems somewhat excessive.
https://twitter.com/CharlotteEmmaUK/status/1650440314400669699
I see that they've drawn the conclusion that you somehow just knew they'd draw from the Raab debacle, so at least we now what the narrative they've been so aggressively pushing was in support of...
Radical plans to bring in more “politicisation” of Whitehall by allowing ministers greater powers to appoint their own civil servants – including some with overt political affiliations – are being considered by the government’s own adviser on the civil service.
Given that we've had 73 Prime Ministers, 97 Home Secretaries and 126 Education Secretaries in the last year, can you imagine the chaos if on getting the job they all then booted out the existing civil servants in the department and appointed their own gang of nodding dogs, cronies and donors instead?
on getting the job they all then booted out the existing civil servants in the department and appointed their own gang of nodding dogs, cronies and donors instead
It is known as State Capture in South Africa and it occurred most egregiously under Jacob Zuma. I can see some Tory ministers' little grey cells starting to pulse at the implications of this if they can pull it off. Another opportunity if your world view is basically one where the system exists solely to get you and yours ahead in life.
Sunak and unicorn kingdom
Please tell me this is a spoof. Please!
https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1650454016659267585?s=20
Please tell me this is a spoof. Please!
Yes it is.
.
.
.
.
I lied about that but since you asked so nicely.
I can see the way their brains worked.
Unicorn companies are the aim in Silicon valley start ups (privately held start up with value of a billion dollars or more).
Unicorn is sort of like United.
Unicorn is also on the royal coat of arms/one of the animals of the UK (this might be pushing it).
Definitely seemed to be working well since he couldnt remember it himself.
I lied about that but since you asked so nicely.
Lolz!