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What proportion of the electorate know – or care – what the CPS and DPP are?
I think most people who vote are fully aware what the Crown Prosecution Service is. Why wouldn't they be? Failures of prosecutions and general criticism of the British judicial system are bog standard daily tabloid fodder.
But do they care? Well I suspect Starmer thinks that law and order is certainly an area of concern for voters, quote:
"As Director of Public Prosecutions, I led a criminal justice system that prosecuted criminals and protected victims of crime. I know what it takes to get things done to make our country a safer and better place, reversing the rise in violent crime and anti-social behaviour we have seen in recent years."
And I am sure that the Tory press will do their best to guarantee that their readers care as much as possible about leftie lawyers and politicians sticking up for criminals and terrorists.
Of course it might be a miscalculation on the part the Tories and it won't influence any voters at all, Perhaps any prosecution failures or examples of being soft on criminals under Starmer's tenure will simply be shrugged off, and the worries of those in his team will be proven to have been unfounded. Who knows?
You give far too much credit to the 'great british public' in assuming they have much knowledge/awareness of or interest in the CPS.
As for CPS and judicial failures being bog standard daily tabloid fodder, yeah right; they are not.
Even if they were, sales and readership of all newsprint media - tabloids, broadsheets, berliner formats, magazines - are at historic lows and continuing to decline.
Don't assume that your - or my - interest in and knowledge of politics is representative of the wider public.
It isn't.
I hear that the tetchy one is going on the road for three days a week from now onwards to ‘connect with the public’.
I wont lie, that could be very entertaining. Sunak has an issue as does Starmer... with smiling/ laughing.
What, you say?
Well, Starmer doesn't smile/laugh much which leads to the "boring" comments but you know, most people dont care too much about that, they had their fill with Boris.
Now Sunak, when he laughs, which he does a fair amount, he has an *amazing* ability to make it look like a condescending sneer... or he laughs at a totally inappropriate moment. Now that's down right damaging during campaigning on the streets. The last thing people want to see is a cock sure "billionaire banker" laughing and joking *at them* (in their eyes) as the country burns. Add in the fact he really has trouble controlling his temper when pushed and there could be some awful campaigning ahead for him.
None of that means Starmer won't have a bacon sandwich moment but I feel Sunak will, erm, out bacon him.
You give far too much credit to the ‘great british public’ in assuming they have much knowledge/awareness of or interest in the CPS.
A huge chunk of news reporting relies on crime and the legal process. It's up to you if you want to dismiss the importance of that to the average voter.
Crime and how to deal with it seems to be the one subject which everyone has an opinion on.
Walk into a pub and try to strike up a conversation with the punters about crime and law and order and see if their reaction is to shrug their shoulders and say "sorry mate, don't know anything about that".
You're welcome to your opinion.
I totally disagree with you.
Nice try to attempt changing the focus away from the relevance/importance of Starmer's tenure as DPP in the election campaign to the average voter.
It's upto you if you want to place undue importance on the relevance of media reporting of crime and legal process to the average punter.
The average punter may have a view about crime but, take it from, they don't give a flying huck about Starmer having been DPP or his performance in that role.
I think most people who vote are fully aware what the Crown Prosecution Service is. Why wouldn’t they be?
Because they don't care and/or are not interested in it. I will use my litmus test of my mum and sister who are very average voters (i.e. they know **** all about anything and don't do politics yet still vote) and see if they can tell me what the CPS is. I won't even bother with DPP as that really is a non starter.
You’re welcome to your opinion.
I totally disagree with you.
Thanks but I don't have a strong opinion on the matter, my comment was based on a Sky News report. They claim that it will be used as an attack line by the Tories during the election campaign and that some close to Starmer are worried about the damage it might do.
You apparently totally disagree and let's hope you are right and they are wrong. But I think it is probably safe to say that there hasn't been a single general election campaign in the last 50 years when the Tories haven't attacked Labour for being soft on crime, so I am not convinced that this coming general election will be any different - especially when the Leader of the Labour party is a former DDP.
The Tories do win an awful lot of general elections, you might have noticed, which suggests that they understand Labour's perceived weakness, and presumably why in the 1997 general election Labour felt it was important to have the "tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime" slogan.
But I can see that STW's usual misplaced sense of superiority over voters, who are invariably dismissed as stupid and ignorant, is an issue here so probably best left there.
But I can see that STW’s usual misplaced sense of superiority over voters, who are invariably dismissed as stupid and ignorant, is an issue here so probably best left there.
That's rich coming from someone who displays the same attitude to most posters on any political thread
😆
Edit: do not come back at me with you're offended crap. You kick harder than most on here
You’re average voter thinks CPS is something to do with the Coop and are not quite sure which side of the political division in Northern Ireland the DPP sit on. Are they affiliated with those bomby Shin Feign people or the Queen loving bunch?
I love it.
🙃
Edit: do not come back at me with you’re offended crap. You kick harder than most on here
I am never offended, I have never even hit the report button. I have no idea where you have got that from.
And yes I do kick hard. I also know that the ability to have a sensible discussion on a political thread ceases when we get to the "voters are stupid and ignorant" point.
Ironically it is a STW attitude which is probably shared with many Tory politicians.
Because using the "voters are stupid and ignorant" explanation betrays a fundamental lack of understanding. Or a cop out by people who can't expand their argument any further.
Suggesting many people have little interest in one part of how our state works is not “calling all voters stupid”. It’s calling some of them busier and less dull than some people obsessed with posting on a mountain biking forum about a politician. Everyone has different interests and apply their time and aptitudes on different things. Whatever their intelligence.
And yes I do kick hard.
And moan about being bullied.
And moan about being bullied.
I took "kick hard" as meaning making your point forcibly.
Yes I do "moan" about political threads being derailed and reduced to personal attacks, not necessarily against me, which is of course precisely what has yet again happened here.
The bullying and personal attacks creates a toxic environment which invariably leads to people feeling unable to express their opinions if they don't fit perfectly with the perceived consensus.
You represent a perfect example of this as you police the political threads looking for "trolls" who have a different opinion. Luckily for you your job is made easy by the fact that the echo chamber is mostly self perpetuating.
How about discussing Rishi Sunak and the current political situation now? It is frankly astonishing how a link to a Sky News article managed to derail the thread because it didn't fit nicely with the preferred voters are stupid and ignorant narrative.
Many economists said his autumn statement had factored in implausible public spending squeezes, while the International Monetary Fund said further tax cuts in his 6 March budget could put at risk the government's ability to invest in the NHS and other vital services.
So Labour form a government in May and in their very first budget they put up taxes. Immediately the Tories respond with "there, we told you so" and the fight to win the 2029 general election begins.
Also another reason for the Tories not waiting until the autumn public spending squeeze before calling a general election.
This is the real issue for Labour, not how to win the 2024 election but how not to lose the 2029 one.
A week is a long time in politics but 5 years is a pretty short time to turn round a broken economy and the last thing we need is a resurgent far right tory party swanning back into power for another decade because some of the hard decisions which absolutely have to be made are not bearing fruit quick enough. The electorate may not (all) be stupid but they are impatient and easily led (its a human trait), especially if they can't see any immediate gain but can see immediate pain.
Starmer has an almost impossible job
Labour isn’t facing electoral loss in 2029. It’s facing oblivion. The same reckoning happened to the Labour Party in Ireland after it governed with neoliberal policies, and the same change has consumed the mainstream social democratic parties in numerous other European democracies where they had abandoned their purpose.
First 100 days is crucial, can't see anything other than Labour doing nothing which is what they're promising.
This idea that things will get better under a similar macro-economic consensus if for the birds.
This is not hard to correct really (might take some time of course) but Starmer simply needs to stop regressing every five minutes towards the Conservative way of doing things.
I find it uncomfortable that the Labour right have total lack of awareness that they have slipped into the Conservative policy thinking.
https://twitter.com/StephanieKelton/status/1755951613330563150?t=dYKz4Q1dYVbDGvZ2c-TjZw&s=19
Labour isn’t facing electoral loss in 2029. It’s facing oblivion.
Which I why they need to introduce P.R
Starmer has an almost impossible job
Well he is not making it easy for himself by embracing the Tories's economic narrative. It might well help him to win a general election but it won't help him to solve the neoliberal economic crisis and all the underlying issues that it causes.
If the Tories can't resolve the crisis then as sure as hell Starmer won't either by repackaging the same Tory policies and simply applying them more competently and with alledgedly greater integrity.
One of the very best examples of the dangers of embracing the Tories's economic narrative is the 2010 general election campaign.
The Tories claimed in that campaign that clearing the deficit (alledgedly caused by Labour not the global credit crisis) had to be the economic priority and that it should be achieved during the period of one parliament.
Instead of arguing against that narrative Labour embraced it and agreed that eliminating the deficit should be an economic priority, but that Labour would eliminate the deficit over the course of two parliaments.
The LibDems arriving late to the neoliberal party, following the tragic death of Charles Kennedy, agreed with the Tories that the deficit should be eliminated in five years.
The electorate were thus faced with a situation where all three main political parties agreed that eliminating the deficit was an economic priority but one, despite being browbeaten into agreeing of the importance of it, wanted to drag its feet and do it over 10 years instead of five. It's not difficult figuring out what party didn't form a government.
If Labour want to play by the Tory rules and agenda the Tories will always eventually triumph.
Edit: And just to be clear - no one cleared the deficit. The last time there was a surplus was well over 20 years ago. When Labour were in government.
Labour isn’t facing electoral loss in 2029. It’s facing oblivion. The same reckoning happened to the Labour Party in Ireland after it governed with neoliberal policies, and the same change has consumed the mainstream social democratic parties in numerous other European democracies where they had abandoned their purpose.
Yup, that phenomena even has a name -Pasokification.
I fully expect support for the Labour government to collapse within the first year. Unlike 1997 Labour will inherit an economy in crisis and they have no solutions beyond maintaining Tory fiscal prudence.
It will provide an excellent environment for a new emerging hard-right party. Which will need to be countered by a radical left alternative party.
^^ That's a bite from a man that has no intention of finishing it.
Bloody sacrilege!
I bet he googled the pasties history and that the miners used to hold the sacrificial edge to prevent them eating lead oxide etc. from their hands.
Cornwall isn't as pro Tory /Brexit as it was. Reality has hit hard down there so I'm told.
^^ That’s a bite from a man that has no intention of finishing it.
Do you really think he took a bite out of it?, his media flunky would have set the entire scene up by purchasing the pasty and taking a bite then handed it to him for the photo opportunity.
I think that was a ‘contractual obligation’ bite from a man who’s never even seen a pasty before, never mind eaten one
Maybe he got one of his aides to take a bite out of it for him then he could use it as a prop for the photoshoot?
Ya cynical buggers. You both might be right though.
This is why I love STW, we are deep diving into Sunak's potential to have bitten out not bitten a pasty.😁
*Not* being sarcastic btw, I love this place!
My other takeaway is that I really miss proper Cornish pasties. Not been there in 10 years, really miss it.
I also know that the ability to have a sensible discussion on a political thread ceases when we get to the “voters are stupid and ignorant” point.
Ironically it is a STW attitude which is probably shared with many Tory politicians.
It is just a fact that a lot of people are stupid and ignorant. You can join them by being ignorant and stupid about that fact if you like 🙂
Accepting it means you can then have a discussion bearing that very important factor in mind. Tory politicians are well aware of the fact and have taken advantage of it, how do you think they are in power most of the time - it is not because they are the best choice for most people who vote for them is it...
An interesting article on Cornwall Live on Rishi's little jaunt to the seaside
He flew there in a Private Plane (surprise, surprise!)
The whole thing was stage-managed to within an inch of its life, with all efforts made to make sure he doesn't encounter an actual member of the public (perish the thought!), but also that he's kept away from the media asking questions too. The media was allowed 12 whole minutes with him where he basically regurgitated a party political broadcast at them. No time for questions.
No photographers were allowed either, so the only images of any of these events are the ones posed for the official Number Ten snappers, then approved for release to the media. The 'look at me eating a pasty, just like one of the great unwashed' image being one of those
Looks like thats the way things are going to be for the upcoming election campaign
Rishi Sunak in Cornwall squeezes into tiny pre-school seat to defend transgender jibe
We find out this week if we're in a technical recession.
Looking close but it was the run up to Christmas. (Q3 -0.1) (Q4 expected -0.1)
If this hits expect more Pez head movements from Sunak.
One of Sunak's failed pledges (common theme amongst leaders these days) is to have the economy growing by the end of the year.
Weren't retail sales massively down in December?
And lets be honest, retail sales were the only thing keeping us, technically, out of a recession in the first place.
I can't see any good economic news coming to Lil Rishi's rescue. And on top of retail sales etc, there the small matter of the ongoing Brexit shitstorm. This is a good article in todays Observer by Jay Rayner on the latest instalment of the economic sanctions the Brexiteers voluntarily imposed on the UK economy
The chickens are all coming home to roost, aren't they? Rishi could be going into an election to the backdrop of Soviet style empty supermarket shelves
its OK sunak is being 'interviewed' by reese smug on Gbnews tonight
thatll turn things around
https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1756407689570132235?s=19
https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1757067859295908237?s=19
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1757087174779183560?t=wAvCSIpHTfKct-d2X3dK6Q&s=19
I see Govey has this morning expressing an interest in rights for renters including an end to no fault evictions.
They promised to sort all this out in 2019. It was a manifesto pledge and they have done the square root of **** all about it since being elected. I'm sure this has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of Tory MPs who have a portfolio of rental properties.
Anyone would think there was an election coming
Don't worry @binners, as Ernie said we've got a sophisticated bunch of voters who won't be fooled by those pesky politicians
There are only 12 people actually watch GeeBeebies, but you’re right… how the hell can it be permissible for a sitting Tory MP to spend a televised hour blowing smoke up a Tory PMs arse in the week of two by-elections?