I’m guessing a lot of people haven’t checked out Rosie Holt’s political career to date before commenting
I've checked and apparently she has never been a Tory MP.
What has political career been?
Sunak is going to meet Sturgeon and Drakeford.
He is about to meet two far more able politicians than him.
🤣
Great comedy value, this thread.
Great comedy value, this thread.
Which one do you think will lose their job first...? Place your bets.
Anyway, at least Sunak is acknowledging the first ministers, unlike Truss.
Right over my head that was. I feel silly
Don't feel bad. You're not the first. It's a running joke on twitter now 😀
Configuration
Which of Sturgeon and Sunak leads a party that consistently gets near 50% of the vote and still is polling around that?
Which of them is praised for their handling of the pandemic from right around the political spectrum?
Sturgeon is now on the 5th tory PM while she has been first minister
I do not support the SNP nor vote SNP but I can see an able politician and am not blinded by ideology
I can see an able politician and am not blinded by ideology
🤣🤣🤣🤣
A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “Ahead of the 38th British-Irish Council this Friday, the First Minister will hold bilateral talks with the Prime Minister in Blackpool on Thursday afternoon and take part in a meeting of the Prime Minister and Heads of Devolved Government Council immediately following that
I hope Sunak is aware of the reputation that Scots have when on holiday in Blackpool, I expect to see a naked Sunak riding a donkey along the beach with a stick of rock up his arse, a kiss-me-quick hat on his head and covered in vomit fleeing from Sturgeon.
Well that’s an image I’ll struggle to remove with the mind bleach
You really don't want to know what Sturgeon will be doing then...
Sounds like a job for Jim'll paint it!
Here we go again...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1591099189391654912?t=108WQeD3L255n_69c-ptTw&s=19
UK GDP was slowing and heading negative q4 2019 - q1 2020. And now Jeremy Hunt wants us to believe the Pandemic and the War are to blame for current negative growth.
Anything the Tories now do will exacerbate the contraction unless they spend some government cash.
We're about to get a lesson on how the private sector tanks without the state supporting it.
Good news is that this will likely finish the Tory ideology off - unfortunately taking people with it.
This will make Brexit look like a bump.
Hunt utterly lying about paying covid funding back - ought to be treason.
A single headline that exposes the dysfunction of our economic and political system. Is it just me, or should the 'markets' serve us not the other way round?
As a relatively uninformed layman, that feels exactly right to me, dazh, I thought the same when I saw the headline.
It's like a cult, where everything could be sacrificed to appease "the market".
Utterly depressing.
In a free market economy the markets are the be all and end all. Luckily we can trust those markets to do the right thing, phew.
A single headline that exposes the dysfunction of our economic and political system. Is it just me, or should the ‘markets’ serve us not the other way round?
Nicely put
I agree, but the reality is that 'the market' is just a euphemism really for the wealthy whose fortunes depend on the market - big investors, big company owners, etc. So we have to satisfy the money men to keep them happy otherwise they turn on the people who are nominally in power and replace them with others that will satisfy the markets. They talk about needing to satisfy the markets, it's satisfying their backers, no more and no less.
Unfortunately, because of the way investing has gone (pensions particularly) we're mostly now part of the market too. I'm no stock market player but I have endowments to pay a mortgage and a pension fund, and if there is a massive crash they're all going down as well. I have long enough to retirement that if there is a crash it'll likely come back, but it's looking like putting paid to early payoff / early retirement.
Sunak says higher taxes and spending cuts needed to satisfy international markets
I added one word there that's key to all this. Making those markets work for us requires coordination and action beyond the national level. Anyway, the "markets" aren't demanding yet more austerity... the Conservatives are. The "markets" would rather see increased government investment in infrastructure and training and a plan for free trade.
Hiya,
What bugs me is the fact the media peddles the lines the Government feeds them. We are the first economy in the G7 going into recession our growth is pretty pants in comparison to our European neighbours.I personally cannot see if we do have a recession what will earnestly bring us back to growth. I know this sounds defeatist, but our lack of investment in manufacturing and balancing our economy between services and manufacturing isn't there and dare I say that we are shut off from the markets that we need. I myself have had to move some of my business to Ireland to survive and this shows the key problem, in that to be competitive now and trade freely, that you have to move out of the UK for certain parts. I was hatting to my wife last night and I had to say unless it improves politically and economically in the UK, that I'm not hanging around for an improvement ;-(
I guess the politicians after all of this will say that we are growing again but that will be with an economy that will be smaller ;-(
JeZ
I agree, but the reality is that ‘the market’ is just a euphemism really for the wealthy whose fortunes depend on the market – big investors, big company owners, etc.
I don't think so. For a start, many of us have pensions invested in 'the markets' but also the money that the companies we work for or supply comes from them too. It's all inter-linked. Spooking 'the markets' is what's cost anyone moving a house or remortgaging an extra several hundred quid a month, after all.
30 bil of spook apparently. I see the government aren't talking about that too much
30 bil of spook apparently.
It's a phantom. The fiscal 'hole' doesn't actually exist, and is simply the result of forecasts compared to arbitrary fiscal rules imposed by the govt which could be suspended or changed, just like has happened in Europe. As always, austerity is a political choice, not an economic necessity. We're being ripped off. Again.
https://twitter.com/andyverity/status/1591393862442180610?s=20&t=-yTdVinUQ0J0i503uae7qA
The prime minister and the chancellor have attempted to prepare the ground for a bleak autumn statement, saying that everybody should expect higher taxes
In July when he was making his bid to become Tory Party leader Jeremy Hunt was proposing even bigger tax CUTS than Liz Truss, which he claimed were vital for the wellbeing of the economy.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F11e6a49b-ec21-405d-8bf9-8644c4042d4e
The prognosis for the economy now is not that dissimilar to what it was 4 months ago and yet today Jeremy Hunt is claiming that for the wellbeing of the economy taxation must be increased.
What was poison 4 months ago is apparently the cure today.
Which means that Jeremy Hunt was either being completely disingenuous 4 months ago and he really didn't believe that tax cuts were the answer or the Chancellor of the Exchequer frankly hasn't got a clue.
Bearing in mind that within the Tory Party there are currently those who claim that tax increases are vital, whilst there are those who believe that tax cuts are necessary, it is probably fair to claim that the Tories are experiencing their greatest idealogical crises in over 40 years when they decided to abandon the postwar consensus.
The neo-liberal experiment has repeatedly failed and the Tories have reached a point where they no longer have any idea how to deal with the latest crises. Apart from holding desperately to "the market knows best" mantra, something which they surely no longer believe.
Cutting taxes was an honest commitment made by Jeremy Hunt 4 months ago, as increasing taxes is undoubtedly his honest commitment today.
It simply highlights the idealogical crises currently confronting the Tories.
And this Tory idealogical crises provides the best opportunity for opposition parties to reset the agenda and narrative in 40 years.
Tory credibility is currently at an all time low, they are losing the argument - they can't blame the failures of the last 12 years on anyone else. Today opposition parties that offer a credible alternative will find a willing and captive audience among UK voters.
And this Tory idealogical crises provides the best opportunity for opposition parties to reset the agenda and narrative in 40 years.
Judging by Rachel Reeves' comments the labour party don't seem too ready to do that. She's on exactly the same page as the bank of england and treasury. The only difference between labour and the tories is where the tax is coming from and the scale of spending cuts. No one seems to be asking whether it's actually necessary or whether the power of 'the markets' to dictate fiscal and monetary policy should be challenged.
Today opposition parties that offer a credible alternative will find a willing and captive audience among UK voters.
Everyone has a different idea about what "credible" means, in this context.
The only difference between labour and the tories is where the tax is coming from and the scale of spending cuts.
Labour already have plans that propose that the government should borrow (IIRC) £38billion more a year. That additional borrowing is for infrastructure builds and training already announced. Cuts/cancelations announced in the upcoming (is it or isn't it a) budget is likely to increase that gap between Labour and the Conservatives. And we don't even have manifestos and costing reports to do a full comparison yet. The idea that there is little between the two parties on what the government spends, and what is should spend on, doesn't stand up.
kelvin
Full MemberAnyway, the “markets” aren’t demanding yet more austerity… the Conservatives are. The “markets” would rather see increased government investment in infrastructure and training and a plan for free trade.
Ah well that's much more complicated than that. The parts of "the markets" that are functional forward looking companies for the most part want what you say. The parts of "the markets" that are companies and individuals hoping to make smash-and-grab profits in the chaos and holes that austerity creates, not so much. And the parts of "the markets" that are individuals and traders and investment firms that see everything purely as a fun spreadsheet where you make or lose money and coincidentally destroy lives and profitable companies, they're mostly all for austerity because they're invested in nothing and primed to take profit from anything
That additional borrowing is for infrastructure builds and training already announced.
I'm not talking about their previously announced spending/borrowing plans (which will evaporate after the budget), I'm talking about the fiscal 'black hole' and how they're going to deal with it. What they should be doing is making the point that was illustrated in the newnsight clip I posted above, and making the case that the 'the markets' shouldn't have a veto over UK economic policy. They won't though, because bigging up the fiscal 'black hole' is in their short term political interests in that they get to bash the tories with it, and their longer term interests in keeping the super-rich financial elite on side. They claim to be on the side of working people, but their meek acquiescence to neoliberal economic orthodoxy shows the opposite.
I’m talking about the fiscal ‘black hole’ and how they’re going to deal with it.
That "fiscal black hole" is based on the gap between Tory plans and Tory reality. Labour haven't proposed the same reduction in deficit spending... and the Tories shouldn't be. The real "deficit" is in trust that the government know what they are doing... the Tories keep failing to deliver their own agenda. Truss was an extreme version of that, and Hunt/Sunak are being seen as more on top of things than her... but I fully suspect their "plan" once announced will bring little confidence in them long term... better than Truss isn't enough... their party is responsible for a shrinking economy... the wait for them to be gone has begun. One thing I suspect Labour will do, and the Tories would be bonkers not to try and do first, is exclude certain spending from the figures used to calculate the deficit... it's what Brown would be doing right now if he was in Hunt/Sunak's position, and I see nothing in the Labour front bench team to suggest they wouldn't back it. Announcing it right now would do nothing for Labour though.
Lovely interrogation of Sunak on iptv tonight.
Asking him how he can defend 1/4 hospital trusts setting up food banks then him refusing to reveal that he (obviously!) has private health care.
What a ****.
Delicious.
Unsurprisingly support for the Tories collapsed under Liz Truss but despite her placing the bar extremely low for Rishi Sunak support for the Tories has barely improved under his leadership.
The latest opinion poll puts Labour on 50% with the Tories on not much half of that:
https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1592175611375763457
The previous opinion poll was almost identical:
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-13-november-2022/
Even at the height of Johnson's self-inflicted problems/scandals the Opposition lead was mostly in single figures, a fairly normal and expected midterm situation.
I find the negative voter reaction that the Tories post-Johnson swing to the right has caused rather reassuring, and a little unexpected, certainly in relation to the scale of it. And it certainly doesn't appear to be a temporary blip.
If Johnson had held on, or come back, they’d be doing no better. The voters have woken up. And that didn’t need Truss and Sunak, Johnson had already been found out by many who lent him their vote in 2019. Trust has been spent.
ernielynch
Free Member
Unsurprisingly support for the Tories collapsed under Liz Truss but despite her placing the bar extremely low for Rishi Sunak support for the Tories has barely improved under his leadership.
Indeed and he's yet to announce some really nasty policy decisions very soon too.
Seeing him run away from the question on having private healthcare makes him appear utterly out of touch with the people finding it increasingly difficult to access NHS services too.
The NHS is only for poor people, is how it will seem to the average voter.
Going to be a hard sell for a hugely wealthy individual to play the "we are all in this together" card.
Going to be a hard sell for a hugely wealthy individual to play the “we are all in this together” card.
Agreed but Rishi Sunak problems go beyond that imo. He appears to be living in the past if he thinks that "difficult decisions" can be sold to UK voters in the way it has been previously by the Tories.
Thatcher managed to blame her "difficult decisions" on the previous Labour government, as did Cameron and Clegg. Who is Sunak going to blame - covid and the Ukraine war? No other G7 country is planning austerity despite all being affected by covid and the Ukraine war.
With his knack of often correctly reading public opinion and concerns' certainly more than many other senior Tory politicians, it is probably that which drove Johnson to warn of the dangers of austerity. Plus maybe also the fact that it simply doesn't achieve the stated aims.
"PM tells world leaders it is vital not to repeat the mistakes of the 2008 crash and entrench inequality"
3 days before Johnson announced his resignation, after months of negative headline and mass resignations of Tory government minister the Labour lead was only 6%
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-july-2022/
Replacing Johnson with someone significantly more right-wing has proved to be a catastrophic disaster for the Tories. They would have struggled to have found a credible contender more left-wing than Johnson but they would imo have undoubtedly benefited by looking to the left of the party.
Perhaps they will do that after they get slaughtered at the next general election. Which could be interesting as the Labour Party always moves significantly to the right after winning a general election.
The Tories would still be in a mess this winter if Johnson had stayed PM. This was always coming. Replacing him hasn’t avoided it. Keeping him wouldn’t have either. This is going to be a hard winter, made worse for many by 12 years of Tory political games and heartlessness.
There’s also the small matter of the B word, the full implications of which are now coming home to roost with a vengeance, and there clearly are no sunny uplands.
All but the hardest of thinking can see that it is an unmitigated disaster which has inflicted huge economic damage, for absolutely no good reason, and is now massively hindering the countries ability to address the problems it faces
But every single person presently sat around the cabinet table is either a Brexit zealot (or has to pretend to be), and has to keep swearing their allegiance to the cult to appease the headbangers who now stuff the Tory party, courtesy of Boris.
So throw that in to the free market ideology they’re also wedded too and it’s no surprise they have no answers other than more austerity.
Asking him how he can defend 1/4 hospital trusts setting up food banks then him refusing to reveal that he (obviously!) has private health care.
Tbh the cost of private health cover is like buying a costa coffee to him.
The missus just picked up a £7m check last week.
He could afford to employ his own full time family doctor.
I think we can comfortably assume that he’s not waiting 2 weeks to see a doc 🙂
Thatcher managed to blame her “difficult decisions” on the previous Labour government, as did Cameron and Clegg. Who is Sunak going to blame
That is why the tories eventually run out of steam. They can only blame Labour for stuff for so long and after 12 years that doesn't cut it anymore and even the pretty stupid voters can work out that it is the tories themselves that are to blame.
Can we have a revolution?
Nope. Nobody can afford the petrol bombs
Nope. Nobody can afford the petrol bombs
20p/l cheaper than diesel now.
Rishi is living this best life.
What cost of living crisis, what nurses strike!?
Why did Justin Trudeau and Rishi Sunak turn up to G20 wearing the same shirts?
I can't access pages 6-7
^^ Sorry, nor can I, I ripped that from the BBC website.lol
I did wonder that myself, the shirts I mean.
Loving the shirts. All the leaders were wearing different colour variations of them. Anyway... £450 shoes...?
