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Rishi’s declaration that causing problems in Ireland is a measure of success really isn’t going to go down well there, is it.
Done properly the assets can be sold off at a fair price based on rent already paid etc.
Ie cheaply and thus the council do not have the money to build a replacement house nor a plot to put it on Its fundamentally flawed and is a huge subsidy from the public purse to the buyers.
Right to buy isn’t a problem provided the sales proceeds are returned to the relevant council to be used to build replacements - the problem was the proceeds went back to the Treasury to be handed-out as tax cuts.
We could also invest in the means to produce, large-scale, energy efficient pre-fab homes that be constructed efficiently rather than using traditional trades - hence addressing the skills shortages. In many remoter areas, there simply aren’t enough builders to build enough new houses using traditional methods.
It’s the law of unintended consequences. Preventing councils from building replacement stock cut the supply. So what happens in the future when social housing is needed? Councils paying for hotels/ private sector rentals at a higher cost.
Bit like other Tory decisions in the 80’s.
Let’s save a few £m by not having a Navy research vessel in the S Atlantic. How much £m did the Falklands war & subsequent increased military presence cost?
Let’s shut a few pits- the resulting dole to miners who don’t get jobs costs less than what propping up some mines cost. But completely ignores all the external support businesses that relied on the pits.
so much for being the “party of business”.
proceeds went back to the Treasury to be handed-out as tax cuts.
they didn’t- they were retained by the LA as it was their property being sold, just that they were prevented from using these funds to build new stock. It left LAs with surplus cash- which quite a few invested with Icelandic bank. It gave good returns for a while…..
so much for being the “party of business”.
Its a well worn cliche but the Tory party knows the price of everything and the value of nothing
so much for being the “party of business”.
They are though.
Its just they represent the asset stripping businesses.
The sort of company who sells off all its assets and slashes R&D which gives a nice boost to the share price and the directors performance related pay.
They then all leave before the business crumbles with no new products and a hefty bill for renting those assets back.
This has just popped up on the Guardian front page. Performative cruelty to appeal to the nastier elements in society (their core voter base) ahead of the local elections on Thursday 🙄
Home Office to detain asylum seekers across UK in shock Rwanda operation
Enver Solomon, the chief executive of the Refugee Council, said: “The government is determined to recklessly pursue its inhumane Rwanda plan despite the cost, chaos and human misery it will unleash. We know it is likely to cause a catastrophic system meltdown.”
3 days before the locals, Id expect every possible populist angle to hit the headlines in the next few days
all of which will be instantly forgotten by friday
my bingo card has...
Quitting the ECHR
Going to war with France
A program to round up Travelers
Angela Rayner gave Kate Middleton cancer
Sadiq Kahn to pedestrianize everything inside the M25
Elon Musk to buy the NHS
The problem with sorting out housing is it’s going to make a lot of people who’ve had all their eggs in one basket a lot less well off.
Only if its enough to build replacements which means selling at a premium not a discount
But that's not true, the cost of building a house isn't the same as the market value for that house, the actual cost of building a house is way below what they sell for, particularly if you control the market for land as well.
I see there was a little debate earlier on, "are all Tory voters horrible". Well, like all generalisations, of course they are not.
However I suspect, as a percentage of the party vote, they hold a bigger percentage than the other parties. Reform excluded of course.
The Tory voters I know don't even vote Tory out of financial self interest, they are on the Alf Garnett spectrum I'm afraid.
Seemingly very proud of it too.
For balance, I'm sure a lot of labour voters are as well but not as high a percentage.
I think that's a pretty fair comparison of the average Tory (and Reform) Vs Labour, Libdem, Green** voter demographic?
** The only green voters I have ever met have all been better far better individuals than myself. I suspect a shrinking small Alf Garnett type vote green.
It’s the law of unintended consequences. Preventing councils from building replacement stock cut the supply.
How is/was it an unintended consequence?
Thatcher set out to 'roll back socialism', affordable/social housing provided by the state and which didn't reflect the market was considered socialist and unacceptable.
I don't doubt that faith in the market, and its ability to deliver, was a genuinely held belief by many in the 1980s, including many Tories.
Thatcher mainly did right to buy as home owners were more likely to vote conservative at the time. She was selling the property owning dream to the masses and everyone else could get in the sea.
But that’s not true, the cost of building a house isn’t the same as the market value for that house, the actual cost of building a house is way below what they sell for, particularly if you control the market for land as well.
ONly in a few areas- but the plot of land has also been lost in the sale and the huge discounts meant in most of the country that the money coming in was a huge amount less than the coisat6 of a new house
Why should the general taxpayer give huge subsidies to the middle classes?
Edit - as lot of the properties sold off where 30s and 50s properties - much bigger rooms and much better built than modern properties
I see there was a little debate earlier on, “are all Tory voters horrible”. Well, like all generalisations, of course they are not.
I am happy making generalisations on an MTB forum, but as I said I wouldn't do so in a serious discussion/debate.
The question is though, given they have the past 50 years to go on and the tory party seem to be now getting as bad or even worse than Thatchers low points (did she have anything else?) what do you call someone who chooses to vote for them. Even if you don't like that commie Labour Party who will take all your money you don't have to actively go and vote for the tory party do you. I see making that choice the choice of a ****er.
But that’s not true, the cost of building a house isn’t the same as the market value for that house, the actual cost of building a house is way below what they sell for, particularly if you control the market for land as well.
Yeah - this is the bit you're overlooking. The state can't compulsorily acquire land at less than market price just to build new housing. It has to pay the current landowner market rate (and in fact it costs more with all the legal costs and delays).
There is no world in which councils can make money by selling housing at market price or less and replacing it with equivalent housing at market price or more.
As expected, making the already incredibly difficult lives of a few foreigners even worse isn’t enough. All about attacking the supposedly workshy Brit now… PiP reform talk sounds a lot like “destitution will cure them” to me.
"The problem with sorting out housing is it’s going to make a lot of people who’ve had all their eggs in one basket a lot less well off."
Exactly. We have had decades of tory *and labour* policies which encourage wealth inequality. It needs unwinding, but to try to do so quickly would most likely backfire. The middle class are going to have to take some of the hit, but it is important that the super rich become less so as it is their spare £€$ which are distorting asset values. A dysfunctional housing market is a symptom. Try to treat it by all means, but the cause must be attacked as well.
Fwiw I support a Piketty style wealth tax.
The idea of people making money from renting houses needs to be socially up there with drink driving to make any meaningful change.
All about attacking the supposedly workshy Brit now… PiP reform talk sounds a lot like “destitution will cure them” to me
Its all part of their ‘undeserving poor’ narrative and their continuing commitment to dismantling the welfare state. Coming from someone as rich as Sunak, it’s got more than a whiff of ‘let them eat cake’
Sounds like a nice little earner for the UK. How much is the Irish government willing to pay?
Humorists in Ireland are suggesting the government should fast track citizenship and pay their return fare to Britain with their new Irish passports in hand.
There is no world in which councils can make money by selling housing at market price or less and replacing it with equivalent housing at market price or more.
Yup. I guess in theory a council could refuse all planning permission and then offer pennies on the pound for the land before changing their mind but in reality it would end up in court and they would lose unless of course they are backed by the government with enough cash they might win some cases.
Jenrick and Desmond show the flaw in this argument though.
I think in a handful of areas it would work but it relies on the local council getting a headstart on housing whilst starting on attracting interest. So the edge case of edge cases.
Overall its difficult to see why subsidising someone who has had subsidised rent helps anyone.
Surely if they had had the help then they can buy at market prices rather than being helped twice to the detriment of those who didnt get the subsidised rent.
Sounds like a nice little earner for the UK. How much is the Irish government willing to pay?
Considering how porous the border is I expect sod all.
After all anyone deciding sod the tories is going to be able to learn to quickly lie about how they got to Ireland.
I am curious to see how true this claim is. Given how low the likelihood of being sent to Rwanda is I cant really see people going sod it Ireland is a better choice.
Manchester ran a scheme which helped some friends of mine. If you were in social housing but had decent incomes then the council would help you with a deposit so you could get a mortgage and thus free up a social house. Much cheaper than giving away good housing stock for peanuts
Much cheaper than giving away good housing stock for peanuts
I would challenge the idea of "if you were in social housing" considering that those, since the tories and new labour had sold most of cheap, had an advantage over those who missed out and had to pay "market" rents.
Given how low the likelihood of being sent to Rwanda is
While we know how unlikely it is we are not at the end of any propaganda, rumours, misinformation between people that has taken place. A lot of people in the firing line may see it as much more likely to happen to them than we do so moving to the 'safety' of Ireland is seen as a good choice.
Meanwhile, while everyone’s talking about sending a few hundred unlucky souls to Rwanda, more blundering, post-Brexit red tape is pointlessly imposed on UK business to further hobble the countries international trade and further increase prices for us all
Less choice and higher prices? Britain braces for Brexit checks on food imports
Taking Back Control eh? 🙄
Cue …” I don’t know why the eu are punishing us just because we left.”
So many apparently normal people say it.
Did anyone see that ridiculous NI cut video thing? The one with the cup of tea?
It looks like someone who has never made a brew in his life!
Why do they get someone who looks so awkward doing everyday things, make videos of him doing everyday things?
I do not know of a bigger karrrrnntttt in British politics than Sunak currently…
It matters not your feelings on Khan but when you blame someone for something you’d better damn well understand the cause. In this case it’s the link between Tory led closures of police stations & the rise in knife crime - yet to Sunak’s infantile thinking it’s all Khan’s fault. I fing HATE Sunak..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cprg4jnl99lo
Violence is never the answer and I am not a violent man who hits people but I would find it VERY hard not to punch him in the face if he was in front of me.
Violence is never the answer and I am not a violent man who hits people but I would find it VERY hard not to punch him in the face if he was in front of me.
I live in fear of bumping into a senior member of the government on a promotional visit to our corner of the civil service. Would be a career ending day.
Why do they get someone who looks so awkward doing everyday things, make videos of him doing everyday things?
I said it in another politics thread but I'm convinced some of the Downing Street advisors are just on one long wind-up, seeing how far they can take it with their political masters.
"Have him go to a petrol station, fill up a car! It'll make him look Man of the People, concerned about fuel prices"
"But he's always sent the chauffeur to do...oh I see, yep, cracking idea, it's in the diary!"
"Why don't we get him to wear some Adidas?!"
"Come on Dave, he'll never fall for that - holy shit it worked, wow, he looks like such a dork!"
/everyone falls about laughing.
I actually reckon it must be some sort of pub game of one-upmanship between the advisors - see how stupid they can make Sunak look. It's the only explanation.
Did you see the recent clip of him going for a jog somewhere round Buckingham Palace way and a member of the public (off screen) shouts a phrase that rhymes with clucking banker at him? That must have been another wind-up.
"Morning Prime Minister - today I've booked you in for a run, here's some athletic clothing for you - it'll be GREAT!"
"What's wrong with the gym in my palatial mansion in Yorkshire, i'll just get the RAF to fly me home for a few hours and go for a run on the treadmill..."
"Man of the People PM, Man of the People"
"Oh, right you are!"
I have had the pleasure of asking our local tory mp to leave my shop.
I have had the pleasure of asking our local tory mp to leave my shop.
I am hoping my Tory, ERG, Truss cabinet member, pops into mine.
In her World I should be a nailed on Tory voter. Oh how I will laugh.
Boris's big new house is in the village I grew up in (Brightwell-cum-Sotwell in South Oxfordshire). He is regularly seen out and about, but I'm slightly torn as to how I would react to him. Tell him what I think (as a few people have done) and feel like a bit of a c***, or just ignore him and wish I said something.
A lot of EU Flying in the village mind which is a more subtle way of putting your point across...
I said it in another politics thread but I’m convinced some of the Downing Street advisors are just on one long wind-up, seeing how far they can take it with their political masters
Id be interested to see what data they have on how well this stuff works
Anyway 2 days before the locals, What do we reckon the fallout will be?
A surprise win for Hall would be the biggest shock, (todays shocking knife attack might have an effect) but it could happen, Houchen & Street are currently polling best in their races, expectation is that Tories will lose a lot of councils but if they dont Sunak might look suddenly stronger
Im not sure any sane party (I acknowledge the Tories are far from sane) would boot out Sunak now, even if they were completely routed
A surprise win for Hall would be the biggest shock, (todays shocking knife attack might have an effect)
That would be catastrophic for London. She would be an unmitigated disaster.
this would spell trouble for sunak
https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/1785352594468037075?t=epkmiMToLwVNpRjWGT3nfQ&s=19
@MoreCashThanDash a good approach to senior officers/politicians is “do you and #### get some sort of sexual pleasure from f####ing us about?” Be prepared to repeat whilst the recipient splutters “pardon”, then look at your colleagues who have their heads in their hands. This will probably be followed by ten years of orchestrated bullying from management but if you’re more intelligent and resourceful than them you can survive. Battered and knackered but you can beat the Masons. Or, quite simply pretend to shake their hand and thumb your nose at them, childish but very rewarding!
I’m slightly torn as to how I would react to him. Tell him what I think (as a few people have done) and feel like a bit of a c***, or just ignore him
I reckon ignore- he’d hate not being the centre of attention
Yep, ignore. An obvious snub if you can arrange it.
Nigel Farage to announce return to politics - with plan to front Reform UK
Well, colour me shocked! Who on earth could have seen that coming?! Other than absolutely everybody.
With the man-frog at the helm, that could spell carnage for the Tories!
Particularly as reality is coming home to roost about Rwanda. I did think that the best thing that could happen was for Sunak to get his Rwanda bill through, because now he has to deliver it. Over to you Rishi..,,
Already it looks like half the asylum seekers due to be deported have melted away. I’m sure the rest won’t be far behind them. The Home Office, renowned as it is for its ruthless efficiency, is saying they will find them all. Of course they will.
“Could you all please hand yourself in so we can deport you to Africa?”
There’s already been protests too, blocking Home office officials nabbing the few asylum seekers who haven’t disappeared
Looks like Rishi’s big performance of hard man cruelty is already dissolving into achingly predictable farce!
Not that Nige, as the resurrected front man of Reform will be keen to point this out.
but I’m slightly torn as to how I would react to him.
How old are you? If young enough run up to him and say "hi dad" and watch him panic.
"An obvious snub".
I think that's the best approach. I'd like to think I'd have the gumption to refuse to call Charlie Boy "your majesty" or refuse to shake hands with, say, Boris Johnson.
I refuse to sing the national anthem on the grounds that asking a mythical being to protect unearned privilege is absurd. Even more so given a lot of the thrust of the New Testament (should you choose to believe in it) is specifically against this kind of thing.
Just a little message back from this apparently very normal person that, actually, I am bloody annoyed about how a lot of things in this country are done.
I hope Sunak holds on till the election, he is a liability which id like them to carry into the GE.
He’s a a slightly odd, tetchy billionaire and that isn’t a very electable combination.
None of them are quite stupid enough to want the job off him now, but who do we think is in the running to take over once Rishi loses the election? Who would want to lead a Tory opposition, especially if they had to share the benches with Farage and a few 'Reform' MPs?
I think plenty of them will just be following the Lettuce into the culture war trenches of Tufton street and 'Merican propaganda tours...
The PM, the King, none of them are worth losing a job over or being on a manager's "get rid" list. Imo anyway.
Avoid if possible but if not do minimum that is socially acceptable.
None of them are quite stupid enough to want the job off him now, but who do we think is in the running to take over once Rishi loses the election?
To be honest I would put money on the fact there are a few MP's that would step into Sunak's shoes tomorrow if possible. They'd take the chance on being able to hold onto the position after the GE but even if they don't, it might be their only chance to be PM and they would grasp it with both hands. Look at truss, worst PM in modern history but still welcomed as a superstar by many in the party and in America. It's the Tory way, a taste of power/money at any cost.
As to who well get after the election as hopefully the opposition leader? Lord knows but I suspect the Tory party will continue to have a high turnover of leaders just as they have in power. There will be much infighting and blood letting that's for sure.
Up until election day minus 49 I reckon there's plenty who'll take the no 10 job. After that you'll be one below the lettuce and that'll follow you around like a silent fart
As for after the election who cares? Just fire the throbbers into the sun and enjoy the fireworks
I'd be unpleasantly surprised if Reform got any MPs without a deal in place ahead of the election. They'd split the Tory vote so I can't see it being a success for either.
I genuinely can't bring myself to wish harm to even Farage, but his plane crash is an interesting turning point in UK politics. If he'd not survived, what would have happened? (Probably needs it's own thread)
So the pre-local election stunt is to take an already processed and rejected asylum seeker, and put 3K of our money in his or her pocket to travel VOLUNTARILY to Rwanda.
The Rwanda Bill allows the forced deportation of unprocessed asylum seekers, so this has sweet FA to do with that. Just corruptly dish out a bit of taxpayer money purely for electoral benefit.
Is there a stronger word than 'pathetic'? I feel I use that word too often.
PS the return of Farage to frontline politics is about as unexpected as a painful arse the morning after a hot curry.
A surprise win for Hall would be the biggest shock, (todays shocking knife attack might have an effect) but it could happen, Houchen & Street are currently polling best in their races.
Especially when you consider that the knife crime is an across UK issue and London is 'behind' the likes of the West Midlands - and what's the common connection across all of the UK?
Houchen also shows, to me at least (I've worked in audit/assurance for the best part of 30 years), that corruption is now endemic within the UK Govt AKA Tory Party as they see it as more important to stay in power than to stop it.
The Home Office, renowned as it is for its ruthless efficiency
You really have no idea. I worked at the HO on a project with Border Force. I'd love to expand on the subject...
I think the general election timing is purposely obscure because downing street are preparing for a post local election sh1t fight, and can stamp out a move for a new leader by calling a GE in July. Otherwise I'd assume Sunak wants to remain in post as long as reasonably possible so it would be in the winter. It feels like recent government activity is trying to show they've done something, albeit in complete desperation and in the wrong ways. Is this flurry of ill-conceived activity just for local elections, or for a GE coming sooner?
I still feel like the Tory's couldn't get away with installing another leader/PM, and I still struggle to comprehend why anyone would want the gig knowing it's almost certain they'll be kicked out. But I guess there are others like Truss with inverse imposter syndrome, who might believe they could take over, call an election, and somehow win!?
It's all a very unpleasant fever dream from which we all need rescuing sooner rather than later...
I still struggle to comprehend why anyone would want the gig knowing it’s almost certain they’ll be kicked out.
Even if you're PM for a week, you can claim thousands of pounds for travel and secretarial support for any work in your role as a 'former PM' - for life. It doesn't look bad on the CV either - even a hare-brain like Truss has managed to inveigle her way into the US right wing, with all the opportunities for self-enrichment that brings (her book excepted).
Looking at the runners and riders for the job if Sunak is ousted, Penny Mordaunt is the obvious one. It's currently quite possible she could lose her seat at a GE, although a slight temporary poll bounce she might bring nationally could save her, and the name recognition that being PM gives you helps in your own constituency too.
So, in theory, a short stint as PM and then Leader of the Opposition could save her day job. If she doesn't fancy trying to work with all the various arsehole factions in the wreckage of the Conservative Party post election, then after a set period, she could just return to the backbenches, job done.
If the expectation is that a loss is inevitable then taking over now shouldn't necessarily be seen as a bad career move. Lots of options for post-election manoeuvring, including a chance to set up your own shadow cabinet and looking forward to beasting SKS at PMQs every week as he fails to improve things.
I genuinely can’t bring myself to wish harm to even Farage, but his plane crash is an interesting turning point in UK politics. If he’d not survived, what would have happened? (Probably needs it’s own thread)
Very much my thoughts on this.
I'm confident we'd still be in the EU. The last 8 years would have been very different but where it would put us now I don't know. Cameron would have been PM until 2020 I think, maybe he would have chanced a third term. Beyond that it's spin a bottle, unfortunately the one that the ghastly bluekip mire we are now in came out of
Just voted in our PCC vote - the only one this time around for me.
Might just be my paranoia but there was an extra layer of 'security' at the door. She asked me which road I lived on as she wanted to "make sure I was at the right polling station". She had a clipboard of street names printed quite large. When my eyes were naturally drawn to it, she hid the street name list.
Surely this is what the photo ID and asking your name and address is designed for?
The other polling officers knew she was there, so presumably not foul play.
It all seemed a bit excessive in a quiet-ish rural village, though.
Anyhow - done my small bit. This time around, anyway.
I voted by post cos I'm away today and tomorrow, knew I wasn't going to have the option of going to my local polling station this morning.
Hoping the Tories get a right good kicking. The one I'm most worried about is London. I know it's unlikely based off the polling but a win for Suzie Hall there will be a massive Tory success story, no matter how much they lose elsewhere and it'd be a complete disaster for the city.
All I can say on Rich Sunk, is I seriously hope he loses every PCC election and every council seat, tosser!
I then hope he calls an election whilst moving his stuff to California where it is rumored he is making plans to move to, in the Summer to join the technologists and work with Elon. i can only hope Elon will soon get bored of the costs of all the flights and helicopter costs, then I hope Rich Sunk, drifts into obscurity.
Meanwhile Blotus sees the light and fugs off to go back to his Homeland takes Fattage with him to join the Turnip team.
You can dream, can't you! actually I hope they all join the speaking circuit and earn fug all out of it...
JeZ
Voted by post last week and I’ve been out delivering leaflets to get our local Labour councillors re-elected.
I haven’t seen or heard anything from the Tories, so I presume they’re not really bothering.
That’s a bit odd as we’ve had loads of general election stuff through from our mekon-headed cockwomble of an MP, James Daly, who (with his majority of 100) hasn’t got a cat-in-hells chance of retaining his seat
Anyway… hopefully the Tories are in for the electoral kicking they so richly deserve and they then predictably dissolve into vicious infighting, so that Lil Rishi has a hissy fit and finally calls the general election the country is so desperate for
Might just be my paranoia but there was an extra layer of ‘security’ at the door. She asked me which road I lived on as she wanted to “make sure I was at the right polling station”.
That sounds like a teller. Someone from one of the parties who asks for the voters details to check off against a list of people expected to vote for that party.
Later on in the day they can then send people round to knock on the doors of their party voters who havent voted yet.
So the reason the list would be hidden is it would contain the names of people thought to be voting for that party.
I haven’t seen or heard anything from the Tories, so I presume they’re not really bothering.
I got a leaflet with a lovely red headline and it was only on much closer reading that it became obvious it was a Tory thing about our local MP.
It was not clear at all that it was Conservative. No logo, no blue, no mention or photos of Rishi.
Almost like they're embarrassed of him....
Might just be my paranoia but there was an extra layer of ‘security’ at the door. She asked me which road I lived on as she wanted to “make sure I was at the right polling station”. She had a clipboard of street names printed quite large. When my eyes were naturally drawn to it, she hid the street name list.
Did you not ask her why she was asking, before answering?
FWIW Party's have forever had folk at Polling Stations asking these questions, trying to gauge turnout.
Just saw a poll for the new North Yorkshire mayor which has the Labour candidate streets ahead of the Tory. I had assumed he had zero chance in this area, which is about as blue as you can get for the north of England.
In other news, Tories polling at sub-Trussian levels now. Perhaps they've misjudged our appetite for performative cruelty?
https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1785917638020931794
And the point about helping Reform is a good one. These are Reform talking points they've been regurgitating non-stop.
If she was a teller, she didn't ask my name. So unless they're going all the way up the road, I can't see much point. Maybe that's what they're doing, though.
I didn't think to ask what she was there for, TBH. I just wanted to tick the Labour box and get back for my breakfast cereal.
Those numbers input into electoral calculus show:
- Lab 519
- LD 57
- Con 32
- Green 2
- Reform 0
I got a leaflet from Labour and without really paying attention stuck it in the window. My Mrs then pointed out it said nothing about Labour but did display a chunk of Union flag. It made us look like flag fornicators so down it came. Shame really.
If she was a teller, she didn’t ask my name. So unless they’re going all the way up the road
That or they have so few potential voters there are entire roads without anyone who said they might vote for them.
The Little Prince will not go away - out of sight yes, but will no doubt be helping to fund those who wish to hurt us.
I have just read a Daily Telegraph article about pro-Palestinian protesters and it was far worse than anything that I might expect to read in the Daily Mail so I thought who wrote this shite?
It turns out that Alister Heath is the Sunday Telegraph editor and that he previously wrote this little beauty:
I can't believe that deranged far-right fruitcakes have become so mainstream that they now have firm control of the Daily Telegraph.
It turns out that Alister Heath is the Sunday Telegraph editor and that he previously wrote this little beauty:
Allister Heath's oeuvre is legendarily insane. And yes, the Telegraph is right up there with the Heil in terms of batshit comment pieces. The thrust of many of Heath's articles is how Labour and the wokerati left have dragged this country into the mire over the past decade. Yes, I know.