[Closed] Rip my abs!

the Plank.
[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/fitness-5-off-the-bike-workouts-you-can-do-at-home-25742 ]Link here[/url]

chin ups.

EDIT: sorry you want a wizzo machine? what about one of them muscle electrocuting things then you can stay on the sofa eating pizza and get a six pack in six weeks.

Strengthening your six pack muscles will do nothing for core stability. Get yourself a swiss ball and learn to sit in various positions on it, then kneeling, standing etc then build in dumbell exercises. It's good fun too.

Pilates or Yoga works well, even at only one session a week.

There is a lad at my gym who does sit ups on a swiss ball they are harder than he makes them look. Also legs raises and perhaps some kind of medicine ball exercise.

EDIT: sorry you want a wizzo machine?

No, I was asking if there WAS one. I don't necessarily WANT one!

The reason I thought about abs was that they feel slack whilst my back does all the work.. if that makes sense.

Sooballas - how exactly would chin ups work your core muscles?

as highclimber says...planks & side planks!

and sideways dumbell bends to work the obliques
[img] [/img]

i hate sit ups with a passion but happily do both of these.

Obi_Twa - Member
Strengthening your six pack muscles will do nothing for core stability. Get yourself a swiss ball and learn to sit in various positions on it, then kneeling, standing etc then build in dumbell exercises. It's good fun too.

Spot on, swiss balls are perfect for strengthening your core as every excercise you do on one works your core even if you are just doing something like flys, plus they are a convienant replacement for a bench and you can do specific core excercises on them like planks, side planks, sit ups on them target your core and there are many varients you can do on them and as above kneeling or standing on them will do wonders for your core. They are an essential peice of gym kit imo.

Iain

P90X

Anyone recomend a good swiss/medicien/excercise ball? The one I got from Argos was crap, however much pressure you put in, it just got bigger rather than firmer.

http://www.physioroom.com/catalog/Swiss_Balls_Gym_Balls/2028.html

it just got bigger rather than firmer.

[url= http://www.menshealth.co.uk/Fitness-Muscle/landing ]Men's Health magazine [/url] has a bit of an abs obssesion. I assume the web site will have some advice

[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/mtb-strength-training-core-training-1-2010.html ]This is very good, but it will hurt.[/url] It's also mtb specific.

Misread "Rip my abs" and thought this was a thread on hot man love.

Obi, if you can do chin ups withour using your abs, I'd be impressed.

molgrips, if you want to have fun while you improve your core strenght, try rock climbing. Do you know if there's a wall near you?

Oooh.. me and rock climbing go way back.

Always did but petered out about age 25 ish - never could find anyone to go with.. plus had a fall and didn't get back on the horse at all, so started getting the fear.. combined with the mates I did manage to go out with being obsessed with leading and refusing to do any top roping.

But I think I could be quite desperate to get back into it. Although it's hard to get time out nowadays - spend enough time on the bike as it is away from the family.

If you are a member of a gym, why not try some of the classes they put on as many of them work on core exercises e.g. Body Balance. Plus you have the added benefit of loads of lovely young ladies in lycra 😉

It takes a while to get core strength from climbing, you first need to learn how to climb in such a way that it engages your core as the only angle that the core plays a major part is past 90deg. I'm not saying don't try it but it would be quicker to do some of the exercises suggested before taking up a new sport!

What r979 wrote - tho' a lot of Pilates is specifically aimed at core strength/stability and dealing with muscles imbalance (I suspect that happens more as a by-product of yoga, but I've never done enough to find out, so don't take my word for it...). A lot of the exercises don't actually use a large range of motion, so are safe to do if the muscles are a little weak already.

Traditional situps are potentially bad for your lower back and can put a lot of strain on it unless your core's already strong - not to mention they tend to use the hip flexors - I imagine all gym instructors nowadays would recommend you *don't* do them.
Plank/prone is good as a whole - make sure you 'zip up' your core muscles, particularly pulling your belly button back towards your spine*, that helps engage the deeper core muscles which support the spine (google for transvers abdominus ). In fact you can even just do that while waiting for the bus 😉

Crunches work the upper abs - ie at/near the top of the rib cage.
You also need to work your lower abs (reverse crunch) and pelvic floor.
(TBH if you're doing that lot there's other back stuff that ought to be thrown in...)

Ah, just (re)read this bit:
>And yes I've been taught to do them properly at gyms etc before
I'm curious, what exactly did they teach you ?

Core based Circuit sessions are good. As already mentioned, there's more to core strength than abs.

A few questions first:

What do you want stronger core muscles for? What have you done to make you feel your core stability isn't up to par?

If its for appearance purposes, a 6/8-pack is predominantly based on bodyfat percentage and you will gain little from excessive abdominal exercises.

Re swiss ball recommendations - this is gym-level standard
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001BZEEXM/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001BZC14G&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1R9B717YW2DMWWWT9QT7

(Ledragomma swiss/stability ball
http://en.ledragomma.com/web/swiss-ball/
- ignore the birthing ball nonsense)

- you ought to get one appropriate to your height, I'm about 5'10 and have the 65cm version.

If you do use one with dumbells, etc, remember to zip up/engage your core to stabilise everything, which is half the point of using one.

What do you want stronger core muscles for? What have you done to make you feel your core stability isn't up to par?

I feel.. well.. stiff and old, basically. Not on the bike, but when moving around sometimes, lifting stuff about, that kind of thing.

My belly does stick out a bit, which I could do without from a body image point of view too. Although there's only an inch or so of fat under the skin.

I reckon there's plenty of fat around my organs tho - when I lose weight my belly gets flatter without appearing to lose much subcutaneous fat, and without doing any sit-ups 🙂

A six pack is made in the kitchen.

I'm curious, what exactly did they teach you ?

When I signed up for a gym, they taught me to lie on my back lifting my hips slightly so that my lower back was flat, which is comfortable. Then I do 3x5 ten second bouts of lifting my shoulders as much as I can. So it's basically crunches I suppose. Then same again but with my legs up in the air, thrusting my pelvis upwards.

It's tough to do, but doesn't leave me with a hard-exercised feeling particularly.

As far as carry over to the real world, crunches are pretty high in bs.

If you're feeling stiff and old, maybe mobility drills are the way you should be going. If you want to improve your ability at lifting stuff then I'd suggest working the muscles that make up your posterior chain; hamstrings, glutes and back.

To improve your core stability or 'midline stabilisation' I'd go with exercises like planks and leg raises (from a dip or pull-up style hanging position).

Maybe going back to the climbing wall would be best eh?

>lifting my hips slightly so that my lower back was flat

Curious - I'd expect you'd do that for the second bit (which is a bit like a reverse curl), normally crunches are done with a neutral spine so that you get some tension in the middle section to hold everying still, whist you're working the upper abs (they're not bs, but only a part of a bunch of stuff worth doing).

>It's tough to do, but doesn't leave me with a hard-exercised feeling particularly.
Could try engaging the upper abs a little harder, or do more reps.

Leg raises - a bit extreme without having a decent amount of core strength already, I'd have thought.

>Maybe going back to the climbing wall would be best eh?
Downside is that it's not very targetted.

>If you want to improve your ability at lifting stuff then I'd suggest working the muscles that make up your posterior chain; hamstrings, glutes and back.

Kinda....but that comes back to his original point - he's been doing a lot of back work but thinks his core is weak - which it probably is without doing anything specific for it - you need balance between muscle groups, no sense in concentrating on one lot and ignoring everything, the whole lot needs to have some balance to it.

As mentioned, I'd get yerself along to Pilates short course in the gym (almost certainly they'll do 'em). Or a mebbe core stability class if they offer one.
Gym instructors are a bit variable tho' - there's one personal trainer in the gym I use that I overheard saying something like 'I did a Pilates course once but couldn't feel anything'. Fail...you engage your brain as well as your muscles, if you're not feeling anything either you probably don't understand what you're doing or you need the next 'level' up..but usually it's the former.

so that you get some tension in the middle section to hold everying still

I think that's what I meant. Flattening out my lower back a little bit. I have a big arse which sometimes makes it uncomfortable to lie on the floor.

Downside is that it's not very targetted.

Good fun tho, and also a great upper body workout which I also lack these days.

I also have always wanted to do some kind of martial art...

Good advice tho thanks folks.

crunches with rotation using a weight on your chest

5 seconds up, 5 seconds down

to exhaustion

2 x week

that will be all

obviously any muscle developed may be hidden under a layer of fat

Just to add to jond's comments:

tho' a lot of Pilates is specifically aimed at core strength/stability and dealing with muscles imbalance

True but it does seem highly dependent on the instructor. There seems to be several 'styles' people teach; some aimed more at the dancer, others for more remedial work.

What I find good about pilates, apart from the increase in strength and balance, is you learn how to use your core, rather than your back, to stabilise yourself. That's why this comment makes me shudder:

they feel slack whilst my back does all the work

As a cricketer I found it really help my bowling, both with speed and accuracy (without getting any lower back pain). And I feel it significantly improved my cycling: gates for BMX and general better feeling on the MTB.

There also tends to be a stretching component in there which is helpful for us cyclist who have horribly tight hamstrings.

obviously any muscle developed may be hidden under a layer of fat

Naturally 🙂 But this more about how I feel than how I look.

they feel slack whilst my back does all the work

I said that's how I felt not what was happening underneath the fat.

I improved my core stability by following this one weird rule....

Alternatively, if you're feeling old and stiff, try swimming. You can go as hard or as easy as you need / are in the mood for, and can really get that "good workout" feel without unduly stressing anything (apart from maybe your sinuses and your family's ability to tolerate the whole water-running-from-your-nose-at-the-table thing).

... or is that just me?

I've swum a fair bit lately.. not very satisfying and doesn't seem to help the stiff feeling. But thanks for calling 🙂

Nah I intend to swim also for calorie-burning reasons and in case I ever enter a triathlon.

You may benefit from watching this, there are lots of other clips by the same instructor and I have studied them carefully.

[url=

Abs - Hanging Leg Raise Exercise[/url]

currently studying my gym course: the following will give you a ripped stomach and abs.

Sit ups
Abdominal curls (1/3rd sit up)
Abdominal twists
Back extensions
Prone fly's
Burpee's

I would also suggest 5kg star jumps (5kg dumbbell in each hand)
Chin ups will work incredibly well.

For best results do reps of 20 and then move on, try to complete 3 sets of these in one go.

Good Luck

[url=

Ripper X Part 1[/url]. Part 2 is out there somewhere.

Just every other day and it's doing me good. Can't see the 6(8?) pack yet, but that's cos I'm still eating like a relative slob. Under the padding, though, there are muscles that didn't use to be there.

Oooh.. me and rock climbing go way back..[snip]..the mates I did manage to go out with being obsessed with leading and refusing to do any top roping

Did a bit of climbing myself lately, just indoors - was good to get back into it after 7 years of not doing any at all. Seems to make a bit of difference to the core body strength, and I see now how much upper/ core body strength I had lost. Swimming keeps me in reasonable shape too when I can be disciplined enough to go...

Does your gym have a powerplate? If so, doing the plank on the powerplate should help. I've been doing that for a couple of months and notice a huge difference, compared to the usual sit ups I do. The powerplate just makes the plank harder. I also like using the bosu ball, use the firm side, hands at each side at bring opposite knee up to elbow. Just standing on the ball is good as well (again on the firm side)

>What I find good about pilates, apart from the increase in strength and balance, is you learn how to use your core, rather than your back, to stabilise yourself. That's why this comment makes me shudder:

Well put 🙂

>>tho' a lot of Pilates is specifically aimed at core >>strength/stability and dealing with muscles imbalance

>True but it does seem highly dependent on the instructor.

IMO that *ought* to be the one consistent thing beteen instructors, since it's (ahem) core to the method.
But certainly a several years ago (I was vaguely thinking about doing an instructors course myself) it was possibly easier/quicker to do some sort of matwork qualification and call yourself a Pilates instructor - or at least the bigger 'schools' - or possibly more accurately, 'brands' - currently seem to have more rigorous training requirements

Dance vs remedial ? - well, I guess there's quite a bit of crossover, and it was initially devised as a remedial method - but I suspect it could be easy to continue going to a class that tends to stick at something around beginners level and not progress.

I've probably been spoilt by the our instructor - she came to it as an injured fitness instructor, swaps things around quite a bit, and is a bit of a taskmaster 😉

BTW - re the bulging stomach that a lot of blokes have, about 20 years ago I noticed a few mate with a similar physique that had the beginnings of one, since then I've always (now unconciously) maintained a little tension in the abs, belly-button-to-spine stylee but not trying too hard. I can't say what the effect would have been if I hadn't, but I don't have the belly bulge...

nedrapier - Member
Obi, if you can do chin ups withour using your abs, I'd be impressed.

You must be pretty easily impressed then.

Either way rectus abdominis is not a core muscle, so why are you talking about it?

ugh, there's so much dogma in the fitness world.

😉

>Either way rectus abdominis is not a core muscle
Well, it is, and provides some stability when you 'zip-up', but it's only part of the picture.

Eh - No it isnt.

The distinction is that it's not a *deep* core muscle, but a core muscle nevertheless.

See above.

Yeah the rectus abdominis does form part of the core musculature.

Nope.

I will mention at this point that I don't care what your top few hits on google tell you about core muscles - they are wrong.

My wife agrees with me as do my colleagues.

See above ?

Ok, put it another way - why exactly do you say it's not part of your core, rather than a simplistic yes/no exchange...

Fair enough Obi, can you explain further?

I could explain further, but will not waste me time telling people something when they will not take it in. Go get a book on the subject instead of looking at wikipedia.

Ugh, I wouldn't have asked if i wasn't willing to listen!

>Fair enough

I might get my colleagues to agree with me, not sure I'd take fitness advice off a bunch of crisp-eating sw engineers tho' 😉

>I could explain further, but will not waste me time telling people something when they will not take it in.

Bit of a cop out - put yer money where yer mouth is 😉

Oh, and reading recommendations, whilst yer at it...

Crunches are brilliant but don't forget your obliques. To see abs, you need a bodyfat %age under 12.

try[url=

Much as I hate to agree with Obi, he's technically correct.
Tranverse Abdominis is the true core muscle, slow twitch (Type I) and directly supports and braces the spine; rectus abdominis is fast twitch (Type II), a "power" muscle which is why doing sit-ups does nothing for core strength.

The problem is that a lot of people (even in gyms) refer to all muscles in the main body/trunk as "core".

Bloody hell IanB, where'd you come from? 🙂

And yes btw I was talking about you 🙂 I must've seen you set up a top rope about once ever. I seem to remember asking once, and you said it was boring...

Btw there's a [url= http://www.bouldersclimbingcentre.co.uk/ ]new climbing wall in Cardiff[/url] - or at least new since you and I last went climbing.. 🙂

Crazy-legs, a much better answer than Obi, ty.

IMO the whole concept of core strength has become conflicting through years of poorly trained PTs giving bad advice. Training the midsection muscles largely in isolation then expecting people to be able to function in multi-joint movements is asking for trouble.

If anyone's still reading...

>Tranverse Abdominis is the true core muscle, slow twitch (Type I) and directly supports and braces the spine; rectus abdominis is fast twitch (Type II), a "power" muscle which is why doing sit-ups does nothing for core strength.

Thanks for that, not exactly difficult to digest 😉 - so is the definition of core primarily 'bracing the spine' ?

>IMO the whole concept of core strength has become conflicting through years of poorly trained PTs giving bad advice.

It's certainly improved in recent years.
Regarding 'core' confusion - I can think of things where the RA certainly appears to provide some significant stability (or at least, appears significantly engaged together with other muscles) - shoulder bridge with one foot raised, for example. The 'zipping up*' you do in Pilates engages everything in the trunk (almost wrote 'core there 😉 ), including the RA, but never aiming at the RA exclusively (if that makes sense)

*Come to think of it, I think the term's usually 'zipping up the midsection',rather than using the c-word.

Whatever the scientific jargon, who has a proper six pack and who can take a roundhouse kick/hook punch to the stomach without flinching? 😉

That's the sign of the "correct" workout, not some dodgy references to core muscle training...

Surf mat you sound like a nob in this thread 🙂

The best results are obtained by maintaining a full range of motion during exercises, e.g. full sit-ups.
Crunches are for strippers, to get a six-pack you need to reduce body fat.

Mens Health is full of tat, myths, and half-facts gathered from the internet.

If you have sufficient strength to use free-weights with a full range of motion and correct form this will strengthen your "core" muscles, or fixers and stabilizers as they should correctly be called.

One of the best exercises to do is the Back Squat. Performed correctly it uses over 250 muscles. As it uses so many muscles it is a good fat burner. Performed incorrectly, it lands you in A&E.

Heath and Fitness is an industry selling products, just like any other industry. Most of it is marketing and pseudo-science.

Mol - who cares? I'm just having a little dig at those who endlessly spout regurgitated and googled drivel about certain fitness stuff when they clearly have no personal experience - i.e. never had a six pack and have no evidence of having strong abs.

I've had a six pack since my teens and have done tonnes of fairly brutal martial arts training involving a lot of impacts to the abs. Also surf a lot (great for core strength/balance) too and therefore maybe, just maybe speak from experience rather than from Google/Wikipedia. And in my experience, simple training and dietry tips are heaps better than advice from some one pack waffler who likes to read Mens Fitness every month.

core strength and a six-pack are not the same thing.
And you'll probably get a stronger core from [i]marital [/i]arts training. 🙂

core strength and a six-pack are not the same thing.
And you'll probably get a stronger core from [b]marital arts training[/b].

I know - hence doing a fair bit of pilates as well as six pack maintenance.

[b]And lol! [/b]

And all ladies should do regualar pelvic floor strengthening too...

Mol - who cares?

Just letting you know, Mat 🙂

'm just having a little dig at those who endlessly spout regurgitated and googled drivel about certain fitness stuff when they clearly have no personal experience

Seems to be some pretty well informed people on this thread.. not sure what you're talking about.

Although, re your post - I am not sure that HAVING good core strength means you automatically know how to train your core specifically... It just means you do sports that are good for your core.

PS the title of this thread is meant to be a joke taking the mick out of teh internets.

For some reason, I was sent a free copy of Men's Fitness last month. And yes, it tells you how to get ripped abs - now there's a surprise...

My core strength and abs were both at their best when I was powerlifting - deadlifts with good form and big weights will work wonders.

My core strength and abs were both at their best when I was powerlifting - deadlifts with good form and big weights will work wonders.

Indeed. If your core strength is pish you'll soon know when squatting reasonable weights! The trouble is most people can't squat for toffee and so its not something easy to recommend over the interwebs.

Introduce overhead squats (taught correctly) and a person can obtain all the core strength and joint mobility they'll ever need in the real world.