Here here, long sentencing doesn't work - look at the US.
I think it was originally introduced in the Criminal Justice Act 1991, since superceded by the 2003 Act.
Well if we stop punishing people for crime, I'm giving up work and buying some plants. Maybe set up a meth lab (I've watched all of breaking bad so should be OK).
I was told it was Michael Howard's work as Home Secretary, happy to be corrected.
The Parole Board for England and Wales was established in 1968 under the Criminal Justice Act 1967. It became an independent Executive Non-Departmental Public Body (NDPB) on 1 July 1996 under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. The Parole Board's role is to make risk assessments about prisoners to decide who may safely be released into the community.
Well if we stop punishing people for crime, I'm giving up work and buying some plants. Maybe set up a meth lab (I've watched all of breaking bad so should be OK).
Wrecker i am not saying don't punish, just saying that punishments are not a solution to the problem. We really need to look at why the crime is happening and do something about it. Going the route of gated communities, private security, etc. doesn't help either.
I'm giving up work and buying some plants. Maybe set up a meth lab (I've watched all of breaking bad so should be OK).
As noted above, you can be charged and convicted for internet postings without actually following through on the actions. Be careful. 😉
Godd box-set though, and most cells should have dvd players soon.
perhaps we have to ask ourselves exactly what it is that makes this socially and economically impoverished, [i]free-thinking[/i] sector of the community feel so disenfranchised from those of us with disposable income and reactionary opinions...
The sentence loadin didn't even exclusively target rioters (and inciters) - read an article somewhere (almost certainly the guardian) of some young bloke who was done for some "minor" breaking-and-entering type thing that was the kind of deal that would normally have got a minor, non-custodial sentence but he had the misfortune to be in court when the rioters were being done, and got a hefty term.
I'm not making a value judgement as to what sentencing should or shouldn't be for different offences, the point is the guy got a much heavier sentence simply because of the timing of his offence / court date.
Sorry no linky, might go and have a browse for it..
We really need to look at why the crime is happening and do something about it.
I can't speak for anyone else, but it might appeal to me for a number of reasons; No boss, no job, less hours, wear jeans, lots of easy money. Couple this with the lack of punishment and it's a WIN. (HYPOTHETICALLY OBVIOUSLY I AM NOT GOING TO DO A CRIME, OFFICER)
I'm not making a value judgement as to what sentencing should or shouldn't be for different offences, the point is the guy got a much heavier sentence simply because of the timing of his offence / court date.
Do you think he'd still have committed the crime if he knew what penalty he was going to get?
Do you think he'd still have committed the crime if he knew what penalty he was going to get?
Yes, do you think he committed the crime thinking i am going to get caught.
If you don't believe that you will get caught then why wouldn't you commit the crime? ( if your that way inclined.)
We all know that people get killed riding bikes, does that stop people riding bikes, no, because it probably won't happen. Look at the number of bikes that get stolen, do bike thieves believe they will get caught before they nick the bike?
Maybe we need to look at how we get 100% convicition rates, if you break the law then you will be punished, not sure how you could do that without tagging and monitoring the entire population.
Yes, do you think he committed the crime thinking i am going to get caught.
No but he's done a risk calculation. He knows the likely penalty [i]if[/i] he gets caught. Hence people take bigger risks for bigger rewards.
If people are excluded from mainstream society and faced with a life without hope what do you expect them to do? The wonder is that it took this long to happen and hasn't happened again.
How was he identified on the store's CCTV when everything got burned in the fire?
No but he's done a risk calculation. He knows the likely penalty if he gets caught. Hence people take bigger risks for bigger rewards.
I don't think the punishment comes in at all, simply i want, i do, and maybe a passing thought about whether the police will catch him, which if you believe the Mail is very unlikely.
If nicking bikes attracted a 10 year custodial, nobody would nick bikes because they could earn the same or more with a lesser punishment (if caught) by doing something else. Risk vs Reward. Not all criminals are stupid and instinctive; some make a living out of it.
At the time we were told that this was all unconnected, mindless vandalism but then the sentences were handed out as if a rebelion had occured. Perhaps "Marcus Dowe" (according to the BBC) had a point.
If nicking bikes attracted a 10 year custodial, nobody would nick bikes because they could earn the same or more with a lesser punishment (if caught) by doing something else. Risk vs Reward. Not all criminals are stupid and instinctive; some make a living out of it.
And if you don't think you will be caught the punishment is irrelevant, you can award any punishment you like but if the chance of being caught is small why worry about it. Drivers know that speeding and using the phone are illegal, but what are the chances of getting caught? People still rob garages, jewellers, banks, etc. the punishments are harsh but the risks are small. And yes if your clever you pick your targets you ensure that you minimize the risks still further. Why expose your face, your hands etc where pictures or finger prints may increase your chance of being caught.
As far as i see it the solution is to make people feel that this is their society and to ensure that kids are educated in what is expected of them as members of that society, i believe that most crime is commited before the age of 25? Think of it as a shift from rights to responsibilities. Yes you have rights as a member of this society but you also have responsibilities within it.
How was he identified on the store's CCTV when everything got burned in the fire?
dunno, maybe it recorded to a remote location/cloud server?
Drivers know that speeding and using the phone are illegal, but what are the chances of getting caught?
And if I am caught, what's the likely outcome?
I honestly think everyone considers this, the likelyhood of getting caught is one part of the risk, the potential punishment the other.
wrecker, i'll have to differ on this, you seem to believe that the sentence is what matters as a deterence, whereas i believe the chance of being caught is what matters, and the sentence is almost irrelevant.
I say almost, having seen how some kids treat asbos and cautions knowing that they are effectively above the law. being caught is irrelevant because there is no punishment even if they are caught.
you seem to believe that the sentence is what matters as a deterence, whereas i believe the chance of being caught is what matters,
No mrmo, I know that most criminals consider both and make a risk judgement based on potential gain. To say that the severity of potential punishment is not considered by criminals is not correct.
Did anyone see Our Crime: Riot on one of the BBC channels the other night? It was filmed using footage recorded by bystanders during the riots and it gives a whole host of viewpoints on what happened.
If anyone wants to watch it, it's on iPlayer.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00pj0m7/Our_Crime_Riot/ ]Linky[/url]
In the programme a girl gets a ten year sentence for stealing a pair of shoes from a shop, or rather walking out with an odd pair after picking them up before discarding them.
When you think of the length of other sentences handed out for relatively petty crimes during the riots, 11.5 years for burning down a business hardly seems long enough IMO.
Dobbo - Member
The Parole Board for England and Wales was established in 1968 under the Criminal Justice Act 1967. It became an independent Executive Non-Departmental Public Body (NDPB) on 1 July 1996 under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. The Parole Board's role is to make risk assessments about prisoners to decide who may safely be released into the community.
I was referring to offenders etting out in 50% of their sentence as a general principle.
To say that the severity of potential punishment is not considered by criminals is not correct.
no it's not correct.. I had a misspent youth and flirted with petty crime..
sometimes, if you want to succeed, you have to work out your hourly rate while you're in chokey..
If you're crime is likely to get you a ten stretch then you need to be clearing about £880 000 to get a return of £10 per hour..
nicking trainers just wouldn't cut the mustard IMHO
Same old same old crime and punishment debate.
Simple Truths
1) You don't get punished for breaking the law, you only ever get punished for getting caught.
2) Locking people up demonstrably doesn't work.
3) Repeating something that doesn't work expecting a different outcome is mental.
By that logic, investing more in detection, less in punishment, and more in correction could well be the way forward. Unfortunately however, to get elected it is necessary to persuade half wits to vote for you, therefore the chances of positive change appear very slim in the foreseeable future. Sad but true.
So because they don't agree with you, people are half wits? 🙄
Should be 11.5 years hard labour to boost the economy i.e. pay him (or them) below far east wage or put him/them to hard labour until they pay back all the money ...
I rather like the idea of enslaving and putting people to hard labour North Korean style.
😈
So because they don't agree with you, people are half wits?
Obviously...
To be fair it does make sense. For Berm Bandit to consider those who disagree with him as more intelligent would makes no sense at all.
Mind you I'm only agreeing with BB because I don't want to be labeled as a halfwit.
Hmm does make sense now you point it out.
