[Closed] richard dawkins; faith school menace

I wouldn't - i find his obsessive and preachy brand of atheism just as terrifying as religious extremists.

What's terrifying about it?

It's a waste of a good brain, stating the obvious.

As an unbaptised and unchristned atheist I find his proselytising pretty embarrassing.

i find his obsessive and preachy brand of atheism just as terrifying as religious extremists

Agreed. Almost as scary as the Apple Zealots.

well on this one he has a very good point

The guys an idiot my child went to a faith school and I could not have paid for a better education now he is in one of top grammar schools in the country.

Just to add we are not religious at all and neither was religion forced unto us.

On the widespread practice of pretending to find God - which many parents do every year in order to secure their child a place in faith schools, which are often educationally outstanding - Dawkins, the author of books on evolution, such as The Selfish Gene and Climbing Mount Improbable, showed an unsurprisingly evolutionarily adaptive attitude.
"I don't want to cast any blame on them," he said. "It's hypocrisy that is imposed on them by a ridiculous and unjust system."
Dawkins even said that if he were in the same situation, he might do the same. "Since I have absolutely no belief at all, I wouldn't be betraying anything."

Well up to politician standards then..

super scale how was evolution handled at the school?

Well now I have seen what he said it seems fair enough. I do find him worrying on TV though. He really does come over as just another "religious" zealot.

super scale how was evolution handled at the school?

Well unless his children went to a small town school in the US Bible Belt, how do think it was handled ?

kimbers + 1

Not very demanding of our politicians, are we boys?

how do think it was handled ?

I'd be interested in the answer as oppose to a re-phrasing of the question. Or....

How do you think I think it was handled?

Well unless his children went to a small town
school in the US Bible Belt, how do think it
was handled ?

Well according to The Telegraph:

Two years ago a survey found that one in three
teachers believed creationism is just as valid
as evolution...

And given the push for new academies, where they will not be constrained by a national curriculum, I don't think it is an entirely unfounded worry that creationism may be taught as "science" in some schools.

i genuinely am interested, i have no idea, and my 1st child is on the way
the islamic school just shown handled it by saying we are not apes, which is a lie

Two years ago a survey found that one in three
teachers believed creationism is just as valid
as evolution...

It's irrelevant what teachers believe, creationism isn't taught in place of evolution in British schools.

From the same article : "Rev Prof Michael Reiss lost his job as director of education at the Royal Society after suggesting that creationism should be discussed in science lessons."

I can't comment on home schooling or Islamic education or any other obscure method of teaching though.

Advert for "Worship's Biggest Anthems" during the Richard Dawkins programme, and from HMV who were pushing the God Delusion last time I was in there. Awesome!
There is one God, and his name is Mammon!

Brilliant bit of media buying in the ads "worships biggest anthems". Xtian music, first time I've ever seen it advertised. Still seems to be money in it, do people still pay £11 for CDs?

Can't be doing with religious extremists of any cloth and Dawkins is one of the more extreme preachers I've seen.

You could argue from an academic (not just scientific) point of view that creationism is valid, as it's what some people believe just as firmly as evolution.

Once you start looking at it from a scientific point of view, then creationism looks on much shakier ground. Once creationists start to try and get scientific, then it gets ridiculous.

However, it's ultimately a belief, with reasons behind it - just like anything else. Do you see what I'm getting at? (No)

It's irrelevant what teachers believe, creationism isn't taught in place of evolution in British schools.

Creationism isn't taught as the National Curriculum.

But if we allow "academies" to move away from those constraints then they can teach what they like and what the teacher's believe becomes very important indeed.

Even ignoring that, kids aren't stupid. If a teacher doesn't believe in evolution then they can make that abundantly clear even if they are forced to teach it.

A bit like listening to my old Christian RE teacher, who clearly had a contractual obligation to tell us about other faiths, but made it fairly obvious that they were all just something that the silly foreigners believed and only her invisible skyperson made any sense.

My 'Thought for the day'; atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Given the abject stupidity, ignorance, misogynism and general ****wittery of just about every major religion, Dawkins is pure dead brilliant.

But if we allow "academies" to move away from those constraints then they can teach what they like and what the teacher's believe becomes very important indeed.

I'll remind you what the question was GrahamS : [i]"super scale how was evolution handled at the school?"[/i]

Not : [i]"How will your children be taught in the future"[/i]

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the point is right now faith schools can teach whatever they like in RE lessons and RE is not covered by ofsted

Crikey +1

Dawkins points to another way of understanding society, one without violent, irrational and divisive religion, and that [i]is[/i] something I can believe in.

crikey - Member

My 'Thought for the day'; atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Given the abject stupidity, ignorance, misogynism and general ****wittery of just about every major religion, Dawkins is pure dead brilliant.

Class statement! Crikey +1

faith schools can teach whatever they like in RE lessons

LOL ! And you want to regulate their RE lessons ? ! Their religion ? ! 😀

Of course it isn't ****ing regulated by ofsted. Argue that RE lessons should be scrapped, if you want to, but don't suggest they should be "covered by ofsted", ffs.

Dawkins points to another way of understanding society, one with violent, irrational and divisive atheism, and that is something I can believe in.

Fixed that for you.

where did i say they should be covered by ofsted?
as you say scrapping them would be a great idea or better yet why not follow a national curriculum and leave the fairy storys for parents to tell at bed time?

mumbo jumbo is taking over the world, some of us are not happy about that, Dawkins is very good at expressing this.

Ahwiles - If by mumbo jumbo you mean religion, I think if you look at history you might well find it was slightly more influential in the past.

as you say scrapping them would be a great idea

I didn't say that.

Unlike some intolerant busybodies, I couldn't give a monkeys what other people believe or what they teach their children.

I am much more concerned with people who feel they have a right to interfere in other people's lifes.

We are God die you maggots [b]<--- [/b] :lol:[b] --->[/b] We are science die you maggots.

Just watching on the +1. Kicks of with the shock-doc love of stats and tells us that 1 in 3 schools in the UK are faith schools, then a few minutes later flashes up the finding of their specially commissioned survey that 59% of people want schools to be open people of any or no faith. Now setting aside the limp journalism of telling us the result of a survey without telling us what the question was or the available answers, lets say 59% is roughly 2/3rds.

So two thirds of people would like schools to be non/all/any faith and one third of schools are single faith.

Everybody's happy then

[i]I am much more concerned with people who feel they have a right to interfere in other people's lifes.[/i]

I think you meant 'lives'...

...and the above would appear to be a perfect description of the attitude taken towards non-believers by many believers...

It would be nice if we could get religion out of education all together; I recall drawing a picture of Pontius Pilate in RE, but no one ever told me how to write a cheque, or how to use my tongue while kissing, both of which have occupied far more of my time.

Faith schools are a disgrace though, there is a primary one in the village in which I grew up and I went to for a few years, do you know what they allow to happen now. Church volunteers are actually allowed to run an after school club so working mothers don't need to pay for childcare - how can this be allowed?

ernie, I couldn't give a monkeys what people teach their children either. But I'd rather faith was was left at the school gates. I'm not going to be a shouty atheist...but religion has no place in a school. If parents care that much about the beliefs of the child, let them and their church teach it. State funded schools shouldn't teach any religion at all.

religion is allowing a fixed set of beliefs to determine your identity and the way in which you live your life. In my books, dawkins is religious about his atheism. He believes there is no God, preaches on this topic and trys to share it with the world and convince others to believe it too. Dawkins is religious about his atheism in the same way that anyone who follows one of the main religions is.

surely the only school that would be unreligious would be one that said there are lots of thoughts and any of them may be right.

just my £0.02

[i]dawkins is religious about his atheism[/i]

See above....

Unlike some intolerant busybodies, I couldn't
give a monkeys what other people believe or what they teach their children.

Reeee-he-he-eeealy?

So taken to extremes you'd be quite comfortable for children to be taught that say, black people are inferior? Or that people without faith are agents of the devil? Or that they should gather arms and wait for the signal from the lizard people?

Lizards, now that's my kinda school...

On a slightly lighter note, I'm amazed that anyone thinks teaching religion to kids makes any difference at all; I was so cynical at that age about everything that it's a wonder I learnt anything at all....

I mean, come on, really, I mean really really, does anyone think that anyone actually believes the stuff that comes out in RE lessons or even assemblies?

State funded schools shouldn't teach any religion at all.

Don't think it's quite that black and white. Firstly parents who want their children to taught RE pay their taxes just like anyone else, and therefore are entitled to have an input in deciding what is taught to their children. And secondly, the state does not necessarily completely fund faith schools. Certainly in the case of land and buildings much if not all is provided by respective churches/synagogue/whatever. They also contribute financially in other ways. The price for pointless petty vindictiveness would be less money available for the whole education system, or a much higher bill.