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bullshitcrummond, FFS man give it a ****ing rest.
just stop overthinking it all, and take a leap of faith.
what is the worst that can go wrong, seriously mate, chill.
I take it that you haven't read the link - it's got nothing to do with what I have posted previously and there's lots of biking mentioned as a benefit of retirement, from someone that's taken the leap.
I read it. It seemed well intentioned, but was just a bit too trite, repetitive and basically devoid of any really art or substance.
BUT. I'm fully prepared to admit that may be exasperated (sic) by the fact that I've got manflu (sick) and haven't been out biking for 2 weeks despite the glorious weather.
So basically, sorry.
You posted someone advertising garbage.
Advertising garbage ?
Such as ?
There's more garbage ads on this page...
you posted something pretending not to be about investment.
try to understand this, Some people do NOT want to invest. some people are happy NOT making money.
The content of that page wasn't about investment, it was about him contrasting his activities and state of mind before retiring and after retiring, which I thought people wanted more of in this thread.
He's not selling anything himself - the site carries adverts to offset his hosting costs, as does this one, but it doesn't shove them down your throat, like this one does.
Not sure what you are complaining about.
We are comnplaining about you spamming with advertising for a highly dubious investment scheme.
Understand now?
It's not an investment scheme, it is just a guys blog about his saving for retiring and then retiring.
I think it is you that is not understanding.
Point me to something on his site that is selling this highly dubious investment scheme, to back up your claim.
The FIRE industry seems to be full of people who haven't achieved FI but plan to make money (in order to achieve FI), by selling advice on how to FIRE.
I find that quite amusing. People who have failed at the one thing they want to achieve then thinking they can make money advising others on how to also fail to achieve it.
And no I haven't read that specific link, read enough of them already.
I'm with bullshot on this one. A simple list of the benefits of free time against the frustrations of a 9 to 5 job.
But I never look at adverts.
I find it objectionable because it's full of crap about "life post FIRE" when it could just relate to being retired. Why bring FIRE into it if you're not a part of the whole snake oil selling clique.
thats the point
FIRE is 4 letters whereas retirement is 10...
And also maybe because he has retired early, courtesy of some diligent financial management that he partly details on his website, in order to help other people so that they too might manage to do the same - seems pretty altruistic to me.
thats the point
what's the point? - you still haven't shown me where he is selling a highly dubious investment scheme.
Retiring early was one of the points of this thread, wasn't it? That's the RE.
In order to retire early you need to be financially independant - don't you ? Even if you are partly counting on the government to enable it. That's the FI.
Otherwise it is semi-retirement.
Best route to FIRE is FINDER-
Financially Independent, No Dependants- Early Retirement.
Best route to FIRE
Be born in the 60s/70s, buy a house for peanuts and work for an employer with a Final Salary pension scheme. Tick the early retirement box, get a slightly reduced final salary pension and you're done.
Financially Independent, No Dependants- Early Retirement.
Getting the dependents off the payroll would be the single most efficient means to my retirement. How much for two adult sons? Anyone? Two degrees and counting for one. Possible discount global travel upside from the other 🙂
Am considering the 20% reduction in final salary pension for the five years and ability to do something else at subsidy rates for 10 years.
“Experts” say £10,900 a year needed to retire
I love their idea of 'comfortable'. £34K a year after tax, and effectively 'after' mortgage and pension contributions. So, equivalent to about £70-75K for an earner with a mortgage and pension contributions. What's that, top 5% of earners?
Yep, that sounds pretty bloody 'comfortable' to me!
Be born in the 60s/70s, buy a house for peanuts and work for an employer with a Final Salary pension scheme. Tick the early retirement box, get a slightly reduced final salary pension and you’re done.
And don't have kids.
“Experts” say £10,900 a year needed to retire
Won't get many Rapha tops for "£460 per person for clothing and footwear each year"!!!
Decent pension calculator here
Put in minimum, moderate or comfortable income, your pot as it stand, age now and at retirement
Cross your fingers, close your eyes and press calculate to see how much you should be putting away next month
The FIRE industry seems to be full of people who haven’t achieved FI but plan to make money (in order to achieve FI), by selling advice on how to FIRE.
I find that quite amusing. People who have failed at the one thing they want to achieve then thinking they can make money advising others on how to also fail to achieve it.
And no I haven’t read that specific link, read enough of them already.
So the same business model as life coaches then 😉
I retired at the end of last year at 56 and I have two young kids (12 &7). Great to be able to spend more time with them and do the school runs etc. So the no dependants is not a must.
That BBC article is such ****. "Experts" (who just so happen to work for the trade association of pension advisors and pension companies) predict you need a pension of £33.6k/yr to have a 'comfortable' retirement. Hmm - in whose interest could it possibly be for lots of people to worry about building up huge pots, while someone creams off 0.7%/yr in fees?
It's much worse than that Monevator article discussed above. If you dig around on that site you can actually find how much the author has saved up and when he retired; he's not just making stuff up to sell some investment product.
That BBC article is such ****. “Experts” (who just so happen to work for the trade association of pension advisors and pension companies) predict you need a pension of £33.6k/yr to have a ‘comfortable’ retirement. Hmm – in whose interest could it possibly be for lots of people to worry about building up huge pots, while someone creams off 0.7%/yr in fees?
I had a look round that web site and it all seems very sensible to me, they explain their assumptions for each scenario so you can understand how they got their numbers. There was one broken link to a PDF which didn't seem to work.
I also think it is quite helpful to give target pension numbers as otherwise how do you know how much you need?
I can't really see what is so wrong with lots of peopel building up huge pots? Surely better than lots of people getting to retirement and going 'oh shit, no pension...'?
You don't see the vested interest that pension companies and pension advisors - many of whom charge people large annual fees - have in ensuring people spend more time working and saving, and less time retired?
There's a big difference between making sure people save enough, and trying to scare them into thinking they need a pot big enough to give them an after-tax income of £33.6k to be 'comfortable'. As doris5000 points out above, that amount of after-tax income would put you in the top 16% of earners in the UK: ( https://ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in)
According to [url= https://www.legalandgeneral.com/retirement/retirement-income-calculator/ ]Legal & General[/url], a pension pot of £750,000 would only buy me an annuity of £29k/year if I was age 60 today.
and I have two young kids (12 &7)
You wait... Mine got a LOT more expensive as they got older.
predict you need a pension of £33.6k/yr to have a ‘comfortable’ retirement.
Oh dear - I have around a quarter of that and that is more than my annual salary ever was.
someone talking bolloxs?
spent the morning at playgroup with the grandkids, bloody awesome.
i was unable to do this with my own kids, as i was too busy earning cash......for my pension.
There’s a big difference between making sure people save enough, and trying to scare them into thinking they need a pot big enough to give them an after-tax income of £33.6k to be ‘comfortable’.
there is, but I don't see the problem here. The original article and the website both show exactly what they mean by comfortable - for many the items they show in moderate would not be equivilent to a 'comfortable' lifestyle. I'm perfectly happy to run a 13 year old car, others are not.
there may be a conflict of interest, as there often is in this kinda thing (as otherwise no-one wants to pay for it) - but I don't think the numbers are way off whats reasonable.
You don’t see the vested interest that pension companies and pension advisors – many of whom charge people large annual fees – have in ensuring people spend more time working and saving, and less time retired?
A vested interest isn't necessarily a bad thing. We have a big problem with financial illiteracy in the UK and anything which helps people better understand and plan for retirement is a good thing (IMHO).
As for pension companies making money providing a service - name a product or service provider who doesn't charge for their wares....
People are still free to make their own decisions about much money they need to retire. Having some nice and clear worked examples as a baseline will make that process even easier.
Yes but when the numbers given are obvious nonsense then its best ignored and goes nowhere towards helping people be financially literate
that £33000 PA income in retirement to be "comfortable" is out of the reach of the vast majority of the population
me and the good lady are doing very well on 20k between us. we had 60k between us when working. so how much money were we wasting ffs.
Serious question, do people really spend...
£460 per person for clothing and footwear each year
Its not a huge ammount, but a lot of my clothes last several years, I'd expect at least 5 years out of a pair of boxer shorts...so 460 per year per, per person seems a bit exessive, no?
Yes but when the numbers given are obvious nonsense then its best ignored and goes nowhere towards helping people be financially literate
Define nonsense, it clearly breaks down how they came to that figure.
You may disagree with their definition of 'comfortable' but that doesn't make it nonsense.
The UK has £6.1 trillion in pension savings as of March 2018 (ONS figures), so there is a lot of pension wealth out there, just not very evenly allocated. EDIT: And I suspect that figure ignores 'unfinanced' DB pensions eg Civil servants etc which just come out of HM Treasury when they become due.
so 460 per year per, per person seems a bit exessive, no?
£875 per household according to ONS stats for 2018
Serious question, do people really spend…
I have to confess I've spent more than that with Rapha this month just updating my winter riding wardrobe...
I find those pension calculators misleading. They often get you to type in how much you want in retirement then tell you how much you need to save to get that, failing to take into account any state pension you may get so it looks like you need to invest way more to achieve your goal. They also tend to show that your fund will give you x based on pretty low annuity rates with no mention of other option (draw down etc) so again you think you need to invest more.
The great con...
What's the state pension currently, about 6k per year? Whatever it is, it's not going to rise in real terms.
What’s the state pension currently, about 6k per year?
£7,155.2 (£137.60 per week) at the moment.
Rising at higher of
Average earnings
Prices, as measured by the Consumer Prices Index (CPI)
2.5 per cent
until they change the rules eg this year they'll probably ignore earnings as it's an anomolous figure due to CV-19.
It’s all designed to keep us all working for far too long.
Run rabbit run,
Dig that hole,
forget the sun,
and when at last,
the work is done,
don’t sit down,
It’s time to dig another one,
long you’ll live and far you’ll fly
but only if you ride the tide,
And balanced on the biggest wave,
You race towards an early grave
I have to confess I’ve spent more than that with Rapha this month just updating my winter riding wardrobe…
In good humour, I'd suspect you are not the demographic we are talking about.
It partly depends on whether you like good stuff. But also what you do.
I always see numbers like that, and figure I don't spend anywhere near. But then I remember that I had to buy a decent waterproof for walking that cost £100. And then my wife bought me a jumper which should be counted against my account really. Oh, and my slippers were worn out and needed replacing... It always comes out to more than I think!
Define nonsense, it clearly breaks down how they came to that figure.
When they say to be comfortable in retirement you need above the average wage and the figure they quote is totally beyond possibility for the vast majority of the people of this country - then its nonsense
total pie in the sky stupidity nonsense
What they mean is if you want to continue your upper middle class lifestyle
The UK average salary is something like £31k, isn't it?
That's before tax, so £24720 after tax.
Remove travelling costs, etc.
So they are saying that you need the UK average salary to retire comfortably, for a single person.