Anyone else here read about these two? If ever anyone needed naming and shaming into paying up its them:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9vx0jrnmejo.amp?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=other
Saw that story, disgusting behaviour.
Scum, end of
That really is crappy. Might have to go chuck Wasdale a few quid this afternoon.
Is there some sort of donation option to fund flying them back to the summit in atrocious conditions and leaving them there?
On the plus side, Wasdale MRT has apparently raised more in donations as a result of this, than they've lost on the hotel bill and half-inched head torches front.
I read this and was disgusted, so that's great to hear BWD, but they are absolute shit heads for doing either of those thing. I would love for them to named and shamed, not to make them pay it back, but just to show friends and family what kind of arseholes they are.
"Disappointingly, in the morning they offered no thanks for the efforts of the hotel, asked for further reductions to the cost, pushed hard for a breakfast and asked if they could arrange transport to get them out of the valley."
Seem like a right pair of charmers.
Seem like a right pair of charmers.
Hopefully they'll be too ashamed to go anywhere near the Lakes again although I agree that they absolutely should be named and shamed (I assume someone involved in the rescue or at the hotel knows their names but seeing as they obviously left a fake phone number at the hotel, maybe they also gave false names?).
Anyway I've just chucked a few quid into Wasdale MRT, their website with donation link via JustGiving is here: https://www.wmrt.org.uk/
Seem like a right pair of charmers.
Quite possibly up there for the Insta likes without the kit, the knowledge or the common sense to not go when the weather wasn't suitable. Wouldn't be the first group with that issue.
From the article comment from the MRT...
"We also would like to return their hospital crutch left in our vehicle that one of them with a previous leg injury had used on the ascent but again, sadly no replies to date."
So it seems in foul weather they went up Scafell Pike with one of them carrying an injury that demanded a walking aid. What does (fail to) go through people's heads?
I'm also curious as to how they left their "money" in a tent on top. Having called for mountain rescue they somehow left their phone and wallet behind, both of them? 🤔
I recall that a bunch were rescued off Yr Wyddfa in weather they were totally unprepared for / shouldn't have been out in But they're far from alone. This BBC article was just a few days before the incident in the OP.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5q7zx27v1o
Seem like a right pair of charmers.
Seem like a right pair of Charlies. FFS. It's prompted me to drop a few quid to the MRT too
So it seems in foul weather they went up Scafell Pike with one of them carrying an injury that demanded a walking aid. What does (fail to) go through people's heads?
That, sadly, is a large part of the problem - they look at pictures of British mountains, and compare them with mountains in Europe and America, and think, hey, they’re just big hills, we can be up and back in a day, no problem!
They have no comprehension or understanding of just how energy sapping climbs like those are, or the speed the weather can change which will turn a scramble into a life or death situation in minutes.
Those three in the photo who were involved in the Yr Wyddfa have smug overconfidence plastered all over their stupid faces, one hopes they might have some sense knocked into them now.
I have far too much sense than to go up into anything like a mountain these days - I know I’m really not physically capable of doing those sort of steep slopes any more, and even when I was, friends showed me photos they’d taken of Striding Edge, and just the thought makes me queasy, they happily went across it. 🫨
Whilst the Scafell pair inspire nothing but contempt, reading about Nathan and friends I didn't think they came over badly. They acknowledged their errors (mainly not looking at the weather forecast), expressed gratitude, and were happy to collaborate with mountain rescue and the BBC on the cautionary article. Their problems started when one of them got "leg pain", so something they couldn't/didn't foresee. They had some equipment but with hindsight not enough. They called the rescue rather than fall off the mountain, stuck together once they had called the rescue. It really came down to a lack of experience and people have to get expereince somewhere. Anyhow, I'd happily go mountain walking with them, they seem like a nice bunch, and now they've got some expereince they'll be better prepared and equiped.
Edukator, my thoughts exactly, what those three lads did is probably the same as half the call outs for mountain rescue, and is not comparable in any way to the two scum bags in the original post.
Starting with a crutch? Someone must know these ****s.
Will also donate.
Those three in the photo who were involved in the Yr Wyddfa have smug overconfidence plastered all over their stupid faces,
Just look like three happy guys to me. They made a mistake. Over on the bike forum there’s a whole thread about people making mistakes in underestimating what they were doing.
Yeah, I read the article about the guys on Yr Wyddfa a whle ago and thought they came across as good guys having a go at something, but realising they got it slightly wrong. They wanted to warn others of the potential dangers of being over confident.
They're basically saying, we ****ed up, don't **** up the same way we did and be more prepared.
As for the 2 not paying their bill, can't the police get involved. Surely someone knows their names?
Yeah, my issue here is not numpties needing rescuing (We all learn, we all make mistakes, sh*t happens, this is why MRT exist etc).
My issue is how they have shown utter contempt for a local business who was trying to help them out. I suspect there was some antsy with the Team, although they would never speak to the press about that.
What a pair of toss pots. I have 2 friends in mrts. They have to put up with quite a lot these days (but always keep quiet about the idiots that they sometimes have to rescue).
Due to social media there are far too many idiots going out to remote beauty spots, leaving their (let's be polite and call it debris) 'stuff'' behind, causing hazards to wildlife and the environment in general, not caring for their surroundings or people who give up their time, such at the mrt when they get into difficulty. Locals patience is wearing thin.
That, sadly, is a large part of the problem - they look at pictures of British mountains, and compare them with mountains in Europe and America, and think, hey, they’re just big hills, we can be up and back in a day, no problem!
Back in my university days, I had a great example of this. A group of German students taking the piss out of us and our prep for a lakes trip because they aren't proper mountains and they're used to the Alps, and UK hills will be easy walking. To their credit, they apologised after the weekend, having seen what the UK can throw at an unwary walker! 🤪
Social media is painting a very rosy picture of the great outdoors. Too many youngsters going out with very little clothing, taking photos etc. The weather in the hills changes fast. I remember doing a solo MTB ride out of Hayfield, over to Edale, then up onto Mam Tor. Day started lovely, but by the time I reached Mam-Tor is was getting cold and windy - fine for me (plenty of kit), but there were too many families up there with just t-shirts and shorts, no rucksacks with gear. By the time I got to south Head it was blowing a gale. Perfectly fine back in Hayfield.
There's been a spate of Wild Campers™ being pulled off the Lakes fells recently. It's entirely attributable to social media 'monkey see, monkey do.' Poor old Helvellyn (and thus the Patterdale team) gets more than its fair share of these. It's kind of getting to the stage that if you want a night out on the tops, as well as considering the usual factors (wind direction, water source, etc) you also have to plan out numpties or well meaning gatekeepers tapping on your flysheet.
I think this was the callout - so not their tent, but somebody else's...
https://cumbriacrack.com/2025/12/31/lost-lake-district-walkers-helped-by-wild-camper/
Its not just youngsters, have a look at the no bag thread, so people are very like arrogant ostriches.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/bike-forum/no-bag/#post-13689826
A rare moment of agreement with Edukator for me. I think the three guys in the BBC article got caught out by the weather and a lack of prep, but they weren't wildly irresponsible. They all seem pretty fit, the main guy quoted had done 3 Peaks before, and they were pretty candid about being overconfident and underprepared.
The guys are from London. Don't we want people from cities to explore the outdoors more? Do we want to scare people off with "locals are sick of you lot"...?
Yeah, my issue here is not numpties needing rescuing (We all learn, we all make mistakes, sh*t happens, this is why MRT exist etc).
My issue is how they have shown utter contempt for a local business who was trying to help them out. I suspect there was some antsy with the Team, although they would never speak to the press about that.
Yes, there's something that's not quite being said here. If you have a customer who doesn't pay its not the MRT's responsibility to cover that liability. Failing to pay for hospitality is a police matter, which given the close working relationship between police and MRT's feels like it might actually have been given more priority than a typical fail to pay (although those are prosecuted). Going off with the MRT's headtorches is rude, but presumably there's an element of the MRT forgetting to ask for them back when they dropped them at the accommodation. The police must have the 999 caller's phone number.
I am 100% not trying to defend them here, but having never been rescued (never mind in those circumstances) I wonder if you end up in a bit of a Hobson's choice scenario. If your plan was to wild camp because you have no/very little money and call in the rescue service, and get brought back to somewhere that's not your tent, with a very helpful "offer" to put you in the local pub/inn. You arrive and discover the discounted rate is £130/night. Of course, you shouldn't defraud the inn owner, and I wouldn't, believe my children wouldn't etc - and if I didn't have the money, would make some embarrassed phone calls to get someone else to pay on my behalf BUT that's easy from my middle-class, relatively affluent position. I know plenty of people who could lend me £130 and pay by c/card over the phone - not everyone does. Everyone should have access to the hills and if you are on JSA or similar benefits - that's the best part of two weeks income: were they clearly told what the options were, or was there just an assumption that everyone who is rescued is so grateful that £130 for a warm, dry bed is a great deal. I think both the Wasdale MRT and the Wasdale Head Inn are skating a very precarious PR line. Its not clear why the rescuers said they felt "obliged to reimburse" them to be able to rely on their support in the future - does that mean someone implied there would be a difficulty bringing future casualties? the Inn has the MRT on its front page and charges a (removable) £1 per person donation to all its guests. I'm not suggesting there is actually anything untoward going on here, but from the casualties' point of view - they call for help, help arrives and then takes them to "the only option" which costs them £130 and which happens to be the pub that has some sort of special arrangement with the team. From time to time on these pages there is discussion about whether rescue teams should charge - and the conclusion from teams themselves is almost always "no we don't want anyone hesitating to call for help for financial reasons and making the situation worse". But you could look at this as an "indirect" charge - you don't pay for the rescue but they take you to a place in the middle of nowhere which does charge you for accommodation! I don't have any easy answers for that, and think the vast majority of people who have been rescued would be delighted with that arrangement, but some will be thinking FFS I called the police on 999 and have just got a £130 bill.
If I ran the Inn there's no way I'd have allowed the team to cover the cost - a late night arrival wasn't an opportunity cost, its a room clean, some sheets and some snacks. Their true "loss" was probably <£30 - likely less than two decent headtorches! The right PR story and the Inn are heroes, a few words different in how it's reported and they are the villains.
The MRT website log of the incident does not contain any reference to the payment problem, the crutch, or headtorches.
i bet they strava'd / Trailforke'd it - cant someone go do some digging? Love a good witch hunt me..
I think you're being very charitable Poly. They could afford the fuel etc to get to the Lakes and the time to go. They also (according to the report) had the capacity to bargain and haggle on pricing/freebies etc. I'd be much more more inclined to be as charitable if the story was; 'They were taken to the Wasdale Head but explained were unable to meet the bill so left/sat outside/were offered complimentary accommodation/something else etc'.
Sounds like they got caught out (could happen to us all) then behaved badly after the event.
Whilst the Scafell pair inspire nothing but contempt, reading about Nathan and friends I didn't think they came over badly. They acknowledged their errors (mainly not looking at the weather forecast), expressed gratitude, and were happy to collaborate with mountain rescue and the BBC on the cautionary article. Their problems started when one of them got "leg pain", so something they couldn't/didn't foresee. They had some equipment but with hindsight not enough. They called the rescue rather than fall off the mountain, stuck together once they had called the rescue. It really came down to a lack of experience and people have to get expereince somewhere. Anyhow, I'd happily go mountain walking with them, they seem like a nice bunch, and now they've got some expereince they'll be better prepared and equiped.
Having just read that, I’m happy to admit to judging them harshly, and I’m glad they realised they messed up and fessed up, so good for them.
The other two, however, are featuring on BBC national news tonight, maybe that might flush them out.
At least there's been some good news come out of this whole debacle - the Wasdale MRT is better off to the tune of about £5K.
Thousands donated to Wasdale Mountain Rescue Team after unpaid bill - BBC News
Having just read that, I’m happy to admit to judging them harshly, and I’m glad they realised they messed up and fessed up, so good for them.
I think the fitness influencer guys on Snowdon have actually come out of it quite well and someone in that position could probably be more educational to more people than any amount of preaching from the local tourist board about "being prepared".
Hold your hands up on your channel, say "look what we did, weren't we stupid?!" and it comes across as something you can laugh about in hindsight but which you can also warn others about, you can big up MRT, encourage some donations (or donate some of the profits off your own channel) and all is well.
The two idiots on Scafell though...
At least there's been some good news come out of this whole debacle - the Wasdale MRT is better off to the tune of about £5K.
Thousands donated to Wasdale Mountain Rescue Team after unpaid bill - BBC News
Yeah, that’s fantastic, and does restore faith in humans, so some good has come out of the situation.
It may, possibly, serve to point out to folks who fancy going to some of our lumpier landscapes and go for a bit of a walk, that things can rapidly go to Sheol in a handcart resulting in the real possibility of themselves and friends getting hurt, or at the very least a whole bunch of people being called in to rescue them, and being put at risk themselves.
Somehow, I feel my belief, is going to be sadly misplaced, but I live in eternal hope!
I'm reminded of the time, many years ago, at Easter. Mrs BigJohn and I woke up in a snow covered tent in Langdale, packed up well with stove and soup, wearing many layers and set off to Ambleside. We thought we were being proper hardy when coming the other way was a couple, she wearing denim jacket, mini-dress and platform shoes (I told you it was many years ago) asked "is this the way to Grasmere?"
I think you're being very charitable Poly. They could afford the fuel etc to get to the Lakes and the time to go. They also (according to the report) had the capacity to bargain and haggle on pricing/freebies etc. I'd be much more more inclined to be as charitable if the story was; 'They were taken to the Wasdale Head but explained were unable to meet the bill so left/sat outside/were offered complimentary accommodation/something else etc'.
Sounds like they got caught out (could happen to us all) then behaved badly after the event.
At least there's been some good news come out of this whole debacle - the Wasdale MRT is better off to the tune of about £5K.
I wonder idly, if the rescuers had been a for-profit business, what the cost would have been privately for a seven hour rescue. Anyone have any insights? It must be in the low thousands surely.
they have recorded it as 57 rescuer hours. If the team were paid even living wage you would basically be 4 figures, without counting equipment, mileage, training and other overheads.At least there's been some good news come out of this whole debacle - the Wasdale MRT is better off to the tune of about £5K.
I wonder idly, if the rescuers had been a for-profit business, what the cost would have been privately for a seven hour rescue. Anyone have any insights? It must be in the low thousands surely.
Now consider the cost to society of more common things such as over eating, driving, flying, using fossil fuels, unsafe buildings, alcohol, football matches... .
On a much better note, From Cumbrian Crack -
Two teenagers who helped rescue five people and a dog who had got into difficulty on Helvellyn have visited a Lake District mountain team’s base.
Rowan Kay, 15, and Caelan Blades, of Yorkshire, are experienced climbers and they came across the unprepared group on Striding Edge on January 10.
Despite snow, the people were wearing trainers and had no climbing kit with them.
The teens helped guide them down Helvellyn with two other people.
Saw them interviewed on BBC Breakfast this morning, it was lovely to see how well prepared and aware they were
Lake District rescue team donations top £38k after unpaid bill - BBC News https://share.google/8SScbbMdcxFOwNVEV
Impressive!
I’m conflicted on this one in that we’ve no idea whether the 2 chaps had the means to pay the bill and got landed with it unexpectedly. Now they could have explained at the time but not everyone is socially mature in this sort of circumstances.
Hotel owner charging £130 for accommodating the rescued pair doesn’t sit well with me as it’s not as if they planned to stay or the hotel owner incurred that level of expense.
Good outcome anyway with £38k of donations and raises awareness of the excelled job mountain rescue do.
I might have agreed with you but for the fact that the two apparently negotiated themselves a free breakfast; I would like to think that had I been feeling somewhat humbled out possibly out of my depth finance-wise I would have drawn the line at that point.
but for the fact that the two apparently negotiated themselves a free breakfast
that’s not actually what the hearsay BBC article says.
Hotel owner charging £130 for accommodating the rescued pair doesn’t sit well with me as it’s not as if they planned to stay or the hotel owner incurred that level of expense.
I was thinking the same. A bunch of volunteers who risk their lives are adamant that rescues should be free. The hotel was trying to turn a profit from it.
The hotel was trying to turn a profit from it.
The original article (in the OP) states that the rescue happened late at night on 29th December. The hotel is already seriously remote and it's also fairly high end. So you can imagine that late at night on 29th December there are minimal staff available, someone has had to get up, prep a room, re-jig food requirements for breakfast (noting that you can't just nip to Tesco's and get some extra bits), then clean and service the room afterwards.
Fine if that's booked weeks in advance, much more problematic when Mountain Rescue turn up at your door at 11pm saying "these two are half dead, can you look after them?"
From the article:
The rescue team said: "Disappointingly, in the morning they offered no thanks for the efforts of the hotel, asked for further reductions to the cost, pushed hard for a breakfast and asked if they could arrange transport to get them out of the valley."
OK, they may have been very embarrassed about it. They may quite legitimately have had no money on them - I don't imagine many people take a bank card or a load of cash up Scafell... So saying " we can't pay you now but we'll send the money" seems fair enough. You'd imagine that most people would feel morally obliged to pay at least something. Even if they'd have said "look, we're really poor students, can we pay a bit every month until the debt is paid?" then that'd still be better than them going "yeah, our money is in the tent, see ya" and then going no-contact.
The hotel has definitely incurred costs, it's not unreasonable that those costs are recouped. The individuals concerned didn't set off for their camping weekend expecting to have to pay £130, I get that. But there's surely some sort of moral obligation on them to do the right thing following their misfortune?
It was the walkers' **** up that got them in the position of having to be rescued and taken to the hotel.
Absolutely fair for the hotel to expect to be paid!
OK, they may have been very embarrassed about it. They may quite legitimately have had no money on them - I don't imagine many people take a bank card or a load of cash up Scafell..
I'd be more inclined to believe that when you're away from home you are more likely to have your wallet / cards / apple pay on you. I think the hotel are perfectly justified in asking for a payment to cover their costs.
When skint (and sometimes not skint at all) I've spent the night in police cells, church porches, under bridges, in bus shelters, raliway stations, the metro, toilets, football stadiums, covered areas in sports grounds, under a balcony, closed campsite shelters... in all sorts of weather. I can't say I slept in all of them and keep fit exercises at regular intervals were often necessary to stay warm. They could have asked where the members of the rescue team were going and to be dropped off at the toilets, campsite, bus shelter or anywhere dry. But I wouldn't have stayed in a hotel I didn't intend to pay for.
That said I won't be staying in that hotel as they don't come out of this well either.
They claimed to have left their cash in the tent. Yeah, right. They didn't even offer any thanks.
Not sure why the hotel should be expected to provide a room for free.
They had chance to pay, chose not to, and now it's come back to bite them on the arse.
That said I won't be staying in that hotel as they don't come out of this well either.
I seriously doubt you'd be staying at the Wasdale Head with or without this incident.
From the story, the hotel did what it does and provided accommodation etc and it's not unreasonable to expect to be paid for this UNLESS the two agreed otherwise before staying there. It doesn't sound like they did this and then to cap it off, they did a runner.
If you can't afford to stay somewhere, don't stay there (or agree alternatives in advance). Or do we all now eat in restaurants and stay in hotels etc then decide we can't afford to after the event?
That said I won't be staying in that hotel as they don't come out of this well either.
I think the money is almost incidental. From the sound of things (and I admit I'm getting all this from the BBC article), the rescued walkers were just knobs.
You'd offer the hotel *something*. Even if you were unable to pay £130 (and I get that, I've been poor enough to afford a weekend away in the Lakes in a tent but absolutely unable to add on £130), you'd still explain yourself, apologise, thank the hotel and offer to pay it back somehow.
To not even thank them and to behave the way they did is the main issue, not the money (although yes, the hotel will certainly have incurred costs that they weren't expecting). If they offered the stay as a freebie and word got out, I think it could quite easily result in all sorts of folk knocking on at 10pm claiming to be stranded / lost / hurt and could they please stay the night oh and they have no money, is that OK. I bet there's a strong element of preventing future pisstaking going on as well.
Yes we'll help anyone in distress but yes, you'll be expected to pay for it. It'd be different if you just got chucked in the corner of a haybarn for the night but a freebie in a 4* hotel when every other guest has paid £150+ isn't practical.
You'd offer the hotel *something*. Even if you were unable to pay £130
They did try to negotiate the price according to the article.
We didn't need to know about all this, it's just not news. I don't know how the BBC got wind of it. Was it the mountain rescue? In which case I'm a little disappointed in them. Was it the hotel?
So someone is making a story of it of which we don't have the version of those concerned.
Overall none of those involved have come out of it well. If we believe the story then the walkers' behaviour was comtemptible. However the attitude of mountain rescue and the hotel making a big story of it doesn't impress either. People who impress me help people in need without needing to glorify it or vilify the people who needed help. I have never stayed in a hotel that cost £139 in today's money and I've stayed in some nice places.
It's an interesting comparison with the attitude of the Gendarmes (the local mountain resue) who wouldn't leave people out in the cold or force them off onto a hotel. They'd be left at the hospital, dropped off at a safe dry place or looked after till the morning and they wouldn't get a bill despite what some on other threads claim.
So:
contemptible walkers
profiteering hotel
rescue team abandonning victims to a fate they couldn't afford.
No winners.
Hotel owner charging £130 for accommodating the rescued pair doesn’t sit well with me as it’s not as if they planned to stay or the hotel owner incurred that level of expense.
I doubt they make a vast profit.
Yes the actual opportunity cost to them of selling the room was probably £10 (20 minutes labour and a few pence electricity to do the laundry?), but that's not the cost of doing business, they've still got to run the business and pay all the overheads 365 days a year, whether all 9 rooms are full, or completely empty. £130 is what they've settled on to make a viable living out of it whether that's attracting customers booking months in advance, or a couple of desperate people caught out by the weather / their car boke down / whatever. That £60* "profit" then has to heat the room and pay wages until it's next used, which in a wet and miserable January might be a while.
*obviously just an estimate after deducting VAT and tax
It's an interesting comparison with the attitude of the Gendarmes (the local mountain resue) who wouldn't leave people out in the cold or force them off onto a hotel.
They weren't forced into a hotel, they're adults not trafficked victims. The gendarmes would be doing the job they are paid to do, completely different to a volunteer MTR team.
I have never stayed in a hotel that cost £139 in today's money and I've stayed in some nice places.
Thanks for sharing that slightly random morcel probably explains why you've slept in so many bus shelters, wheelie bins and doorways. £139 for a room is pretty reasonable and if it was £139 for two that's cheap.
I think its quite plausible that was a lot of money for them even tho its cheap for a highland hotel
Personally I suspect a lot of miscommunication at the heart of this
Personally I suspect a lot of miscommunication at the heart of this
I think you're right. Somehow it doesn't pass the smell test. Taken at face value, maybe the hotel has the "right" to charge full room rate, especially in order to respect guests already there who are paying that rate, but I do think there is an element of "karma" - if they showed some generosity now they'd be rewarded later 🙂
I think you're being very charitable Poly. They could afford the fuel etc to get to the Lakes and the time to go. They also (according to the report) had the capacity to bargain and haggle on pricing/freebies etc. I'd be much more more inclined to be as charitable if the story was; 'They were taken to the Wasdale Head but explained were unable to meet the bill so left/sat outside/were offered complimentary accommodation/something else etc'.
Sounds like they got caught out (could happen to us all) then behaved badly after the event.
Agree with this. Extenuating circumstances are of course always possible, but I reckon 99.9% of the time these things are exactly what they look like and there's no need to go reaching for excuses for the people involved. It's not like over the last few years there haven't been plenty of jaw-dropping examples of really pi$$ poor behaviour in the outdoors so in this case I'm happy to go with IMO the overwhelmingly most likely explanation.
The hotel aren't obliged to hand out freebies to idiots who are under prepared. The fact they tried to get a free breakfast out of the hotel when they clearly had zero intention to pay tells you all you need to know about this pair
I have never stayed in a hotel that cost £139 in today's money and I've stayed in some nice places.
Perhaps nicer than your usual toilets and bus shelters, but 130 quid for a decent hotel in scotland for 2 folks is more than reasonable.
Personally I suspect a lot of miscommunication at the heart of this
I think you're right. Somehow it doesn't pass the smell test. Taken at face value, maybe the hotel has the "right" to charge full room rate, especially in order to respect guests already there who are paying that rate, but I do think there is an element of "karma" - if they showed some generosity now they'd be rewarded later 🙂
Thats not what I meant - the hotel is perfectly within their rights to charge what is a cheap rate. I do wonder if the blokes tired, late at night clearly understood they would have to pay.
Its well possible they did not have the money to pay
I do wonder if the blokes tired, late at night clearly understood they would have to pay.
Its well possible they did not have the money to pay
Both entirely possible.
In that situation would you wake up in the morning and push for a breakfast?
You cock up in the mountains in France and they get you to a place of safety, it's not charity that gets you down, it's someone who is charging you a few hundred unless you've taken out insurance.
Why are people on here giving the MRT a hard time for this instance - very poor show. MRT worked on their own time to save these 2 chancers, and got zero thanks, arranged a place of safety and shelter, and the chancers took the pi$$. I am sure all of us on here - we'd all be pretty grateful for having our lives saved and make it clear we were thankful, and not run off like dine and dash.
Personally I suspect a lot of miscommunication at the heart of this
Absolutely. We're basically getting a lot of hearsay and trying to judge folk on incomplete information. I don't know how common it is for MRT to leave folk at that (or any) hotel, I don't know what state the walkers were in, I don't know what appropriate facilities the hotel could have offered in those circumstances. It might have been as simple as "you can wait in the bar until morning" or it could have been "would you like a twin room, a hot shower, bathrobes and breakfast"
At the moment, the two walkers don't come out of it well, but neither does the hotel.
Generally speaking MRT callout reports tend to end with "casualty taken to hospital" or "party returned to their vehicle" so I'm wondering how these two arrived for their walk.
I don't imagine many people take a bank card up Scafell..
They claimed to have left their cash in the tent.
My wallet, cards and iPhone are in waterproof bag in my sac.
Generally speaking MRT callout reports tend to end with "casualty taken to hospital" or "party returned to their vehicle" so I'm wondering how these two arrived for their walk.
I don't imagine many people take a bank card up Scafell..
They claimed to have left their cash in the tent.
My wallet, cards and iPhone are in waterproof bag in my sac.
Of course they are (as are mine) and if you were dragged off something and then needed overnight accommodation, I'm sure you'd stump up - as most right minded/sane citizens would. These two chancers sound like they wanted it all - for free.
there's some more actual detail here: grough — Lake District team saddled with hotel bill after rescued walkers fail to pay
remember it was on the 29th December and Wasdale is pretty busy at that time of year.
“When they were safely returned to the valley bottom, wet and hungry in the early hours of the next day, Steve the bar manager at the Wasdale Head Inn kindly agreed to stay up, provide some snacks and let the two men stay in one of the unoccupied apartments at a significant 35 per cent reduced rate.
In summary:
* Hotel owner stayed up until the walkers were off the mountain
* Hotel offered and they agreed to pay for a room at a discounted rate
* walkers wandered off with the head torches and the hotel offered to re-imburse mountain rescue.
I'm not seeing that the hotel were anything but accommodating.
I don't imagine many people take a bank card up Scafell.
I wouldn't go anywhere without a bank card. And i wouldn't go into the hills without a spare note or two in case of emergency.
I find it odd that people are saying "well, we don't have the walkers' side of the story." This is true, but an obvious solution presents itself.
They may quite legitimately have had no money on them - I don't imagine many people take a bank card or a load of cash up Scafell...
Really? Seriously, you can’t imagine, in this day and age, that someone would be wandering around without a credit card/debit card/phone with Apple Pay or equivalent? Cash, yes, while I actually have £30 in cash in my wallet at the moment, that’s most unusual, I rarely carry cash, I rely on my bank debit card in my wallet, or more often a payment system on my phone, Apple Pay in my case. For many people it’s via a smart watch. But to say you can’t imagine someone traveling some distance without any payment app or equivalent is stretching the bounds of possibility to breaking point.
How the actual **** did they manage to get there in the first place? Stow away in a delivery truck? Hitch a ride?
Really! *rollseyes*
My wallet, cards and iPhone are in waterproof bag in my sac.
My iPhone, and my wallet are both rated to IP67 waterproof, so unless I ended up in Windermere or Derwent Water, in which case I’m really in a world of trouble, it’s probably not going to be an issue being able to pay.
Those two are idiots who went out into the hills totally unprepared, then happily expected other people to help them out for free.
Sadly, the world is full of freeloaders who don’t expect to have to pay for their mistakes, but will expect others to be out of pocket on their behalf.
I'm not seeing that the hotel were anything but accommodating.
I’ve no gripe with that - the hotel did what hotels do: provide paid for accommodation. However the hotel do make a big marketing push out of their relationship with the team and charge every guest £1 as a voluntary donation to the team. I’m not sure how many of their guests would look kindly on them charging the MRT for the bad antics of their casualties. Had I been running the hotel I’d have refused the MRTs offer of payment but asked the cops (who called the MRT out) to track them down and either get payment or prosecute.
As it happens the two “chancers” have probably inadvertently raised more money for the team than any individual will this year!
I don’t think “what we would have done” is necessarily the right benchmark. Nobody here is going to have no money or not be able to borrow money from friend/family to repay. There are people who really don’t have £130 (the MRT report said they were on the bus and camping; and frankly the sort of person who goes up hills in the lakes in December with a crutch might be a clue!). Rational people with no money have sensible discussions with the rescuers or the hotel about their predicament. But if you think the alternative is being thrown out in the cold or causing the rescue team more hassle at 2am then perhaps you don’t act rationally. I would not be surprising to me if the MRT went into autopilot and arranged the hotel manager to stay up before actually asking the casualties if they had any money. Once you are down in the valley and someone has organised a hotel it’s even more embarrassing to explain you don’t have money. You’re cold, you’re tired and you have problem with an easy but morally wrong solution. Who knows what the conversation was in the morning, the quote in slackboys link is at least 2nd hand information but if you were being generous to the casualties by this point the hotel knew the money was not getting paid immediately and perhaps weren’t that nice to their new “customers”. Again mature people with enough money to buy nice bikes still send them the cash but depending on the attitude of the hotelier I can see some “guests” saying - **** him, be only had 6hrs sleep and didn’t include breakfast. If like Edukator you’ve never spent £130 a night on a hotel you might feel a bit pissed off.
if I then found myself as “the story” on the BBC I’d have quietly anonymously donated the £130 - because nothing good can come of being outed! Although I’m actually a little surprised they’ve not energed for their 15 minutes of fame to tell their side of the story!
This quote from slackboy’s link sounds to me like the MRT and hotel actually knew when they arrived that payment might be a problem:
”However, as we had promised to cover any loss if the walkers failed pay, we do still feel obliged to reimburse the hotel from our own funds”
Now I can imagine that was a conversation that took place in front of the walkers - precisely because they could sense these two were chancers and/or broke and by saying the MRT will be on the hook if they don’t pay they expected more moral pressure than if it was just the hotel losing out. MRTs are made up of nice people - perhaps they are a bit naive though if they were genuinely surprised that they needed to have this conversation with the hotel and then it turned out the very scenario they discussed happened.
We're basically getting a lot of hearsay and trying to judge folk on incomplete information.
That could be easily fixed. This story has been in the news for a week and the fact that the other side of the story has not been told suggests to me there isn't very much of an other side.
...or just that they don't want to engage with a virtual pitchfork-waving mob calling them scammers, idiots, scumbags without knowing the full story?
They're already being labelled as scumbags, if they feel they dont deserve the label then I think they'd want to say why.
...or just that they don't want to engage with a virtual pitchfork-waving mob calling them scammers, idiots, scumbags without knowing the full story?
My thought was "why would you even bother coming forward now?"
To sell your exclusive story and come out of this a few thousand in pocket 😉
There are people who really don’t have £130 (the MRT report said they were on the bus and camping; and frankly the sort of person who goes up hills in the lakes in December with a crutch might be a clue!). Rational people with no money have sensible discussions with the rescuers or the hotel about their predicament. But if you think the alternative is being thrown out in the cold or causing the rescue team more hassle at 2am then perhaps you don’t act rationally.
That's more or less what I was trying to say ^^ when I said that I could imagine a scenario where they didn't have an immediate means of payment (not everyone has Google / Apple Pay, not everyone takes a bank card up a mountain although apparently I'm alone in thinking that!) and not everyone has £130 available to drop at a moment's notice on an unexpected bill (again, I seem to be in a minority on that view but clearly everyone on here is more than wealthy enough...)
And to everyone saying that of course you have a means of payment on you at all times - well if they did and they lied about it to avoid paying their bill, that's even worse, surely?
The room was empty.
The people who were rescued could have been upfront if they couldn't afford to stay.
If it was my hotel I would have let them stay given them breakfast and suggested they could donate a suitable amount to the mrt if they could afford it.
Lots of other ways for this to play out.
not everyone has £130 available to drop at a moment's notice on an unexpected bill (again, I seem to be in a minority on that view but clearly everyone on here is more than wealthy enough...)
We can't be certain of course, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that someone travelling halfway across the country from the richest city in the UK probably isn't on the breadline.