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My mum's thinking of replacing her gas boiler. It's fairly old and located in a small room [off the kitchen] that has no external walls but is 'open' to the kitchen which itself connects to the dining room and the lounge - there are no doors between the rooms. The existing flue is verticle up through the roof.
There is a cellar below the existing boiler room into which condensate can be drained if required.
Previously she has been told that she cannot have a boiler in this location unless a big ventilation hole is put in the kitchen wall which I think is unneccesary. She has also been told that if a new boiler is fitted it has to be on an outide wall in the kitchen, but this would a) look rubbish and b) be difficult to do as all the heating pipes obviously run to the existing boiler location. Overall I'm worried that she's being taken advantage of - she's 82!
So can someone knowledgable tell me if it's possible to replace an existing [open flue?] boiler in a room with no external walls? Do fan assisted flues work in this situation?
modern boilers dont need ventilation
condense waste could be ok if there is mains drainage in the cellar
outside wall is usually preferred for siting the boiler for simplicity of flueing but not the only option most flues can be extended horizontally/ vertically/ change direction to terminate through an outside wall or through the roof
difficult to be more specific without knowing the layout
hmm...Sounds like your mum's being spun a yarn there.
We had a Worcester Bosch boiler fitted by one of their approved fitters about 6 months ago. The boiler is inside a cupboard and is attached to an internal wall and the flue goes up vertically and through the roof. The fitter plumbed the condensate into a hopper that takes the waste from the bathroom, oh, and there's a small pressure relief/emergency blow off pipe that he's taken out through an external wall (I gather this 'blow off' pipe has to exit somewhere where there's no risk of anyone getting scalded - as only a relatively small amount of water is ejected, I guess your cellar might be ok).
FWIW, we ended up getting 5 different CH fitters in to give quotes and 3 out of the 5 told us that we couldn't have a vertical flue. The fella that fitted it said that a lot of fitters are either inexperienced or lazy and just go with what's easiest and cheapest for them to fit. So, my advice would be to get at least 3 fitters to have a look and quote.
Best of luck and hope you get it sorted.
there are a lot of options on fluing these days, but be aware, as there is need for inspection panels if you box a flue in.
A lot of the faults I see in new properties are poor fluing arrangements, some of which are downright lethal, and another case of if you do get lots of quotes and end up with the cheapest ask yourself how come he can do it for much less than everyone else. It is usually because they cut a corner somewhere.
If you are in the South East anywhere happy to look and give you some advice.
mail me at timATj-twren.eclipse.co.uk
Thanks for the info guys, I'll certainly be taking control if a new boiler is sought, but I'm working on the 'if it aint broke' theory.
Popped in to see her today as she phoned to say the boiler had stopped (this is one reason why she's thinking of changing it) - turns out her handyman had switched the boiler electrics off when looking for the lightswitch!
She's now a happy bunny and not looking for a new boiler!
I am angry with the guy who serviced it last October though as he told her it was 'at risk' due to ther not being enough ventilation. This boiler has been installed for about 20 years and was installed correctly (dad was an architect and was very particular about stuff being done right). The ventilation to the boiler has not changed in that time and is therefore not at 'below 90% manuafacturers recommended ventilation' - so it's perfectly alright.
Strangely the same chap serviced it the year before and never mentioned anything about the ventilation. Now he's going on about fitting a new boiler and knocking holes inthe wall to ventilate it.
Next time he's there I'll be there too asking a few questions.
WHat about the old boiler government scheme-can she use that too?
no expert but before going in too hard, there have been changes to the rules. Last year my boiler was 'not to current standard' in terms of ventilation, but by the time it was serviced this year that had changed to being inadequate and if I hadn't been told about it the year before and fitted new airbricks to increase the ventilation it could have been declared unsafe.
If there are no doors between the room the boiler is in and the kitchen, living and dining rooms are all open plan off it, there will be more than sufficient adventitious ventilation in those rooms, as far as i am aware.
However, I deal with the bit before it gets to the boiler, the meters, mains and services, so as I'm not Corgi registered, I may be talking out my arse
EDIT: The regs are for open flued boilers, and the ventilation requirements HAVE AND DID NOT CHANGE. The way the level of ventilation is classified has changed since 1st June 2008, and anything less than 90% of the manu's recommendation would be deemed "at risk" (less than 39% it is switched off). If the ventilation was correct and you say your dad was a stickler, so it probably is, then as long as no airbricks are blocked, or vents obscured (and that is any vents in the volume of the cupboard, kitchen dining and living rooms if they are not subdivided by doors) then the ventilation will be fine.
Our new boiler is on an external wall but it has no ventilation other than the pipes the gas man put in, and they could be run any distance to the outer wall.
P.S. Phone Corgi for advice, CORGI (0870 4012300, www.corgi-gas-safety.com).
TOJ:
by the time it was serviced this year that had changed to being inadequate and if I hadn't been told about it the year before and fitted new airbricks to increase the ventilation it could have been declared unsafe.
Another person lead astray by the boiler-man. As andyl46 says, the regulations have [b]NOT[/b] changed. Unless your boiler was originally fitted incorrectly, or you have reduced the ventilation, you did [b]not[/b] have to fit any airbricks.
This [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertyadvice/jeffhowell/3351376/On-the-level-does-my-boiler-really-need-to-be-replaced.html ]Telegraph[/url] article is interesting. It does seem that some companies are using this ventilation categorisation as a means to boost their work.