I agree - but if they were all in Brawns?

at least they cheated properly

Very true - but he has a similar skill level to Hamilton.

I take it you missed the 2008 British GP? 😉

Did Symonds get sacked then? - a statement said he'd resigned but Renault's CEO has said

[i]The team's director general, Patrick Pelata, has admitted the loss of Briatore and Symonds is "a hard blow" for the team, confirming the flamboyant Italian did resign.

Pelata told RTL: "The team considered that there was fault, and with fault there is a penalty.

"Piquet had already left and Pat Symonds is gone. Flavio Briatore considered what was his moral responsibility, and he resigned." [/i]

Benneton were very successful before Schumacher and after with Race wins.

Renault won before Alonso and will win after.

Not all results are down to the driver, circumstances make more difference. Just a quick safety car and there you go.

I take it you missed the 2008 British GP?

And you missed Monza last weekend

I thought Hamilton was impressive last weekend even if he did push it too far - but it's hardly a patch on Massa's Silverstone drive when he appeared to be totally out of his depth [ 🙂 ] & humiliated - how many times did he spin?

Agreed Hamilton did have a decent drive last weekend, but to bin it at that point in a race - just what was he thinking? No chance of catching Button, no chance of being caught then do that? 100% lack of concentration. And another 10% stupidity thrown in for good measure.

Yoda - I think the distinction is that when one driver collides with another, it is a unilateral decision made by an individual, not a pre-meditated plan by the team.

Also, I strongly believe those sort of incidents are heat of the moment decisions - just the adrenalin and a 'must win' attitude which are part and parcel of this kind of racing.

Senna's was premeditated - he admitted afterwards that he'd planned to crash into Prost if Prost was in front of him at the first corner. Schumacher v Hill maybe have been heat of the moment. I have no doubt that having got away with it against Hill he planned to do the same against Villeneuve but in that case turned in too late and hit the side pod rather then the front wheel like he did with Hill.

Agreed Hamilton did have a decent drive last weekend, but to bin it at that point in a race - just what was he thinking? No chance of catching Button, no chance of being caught then do that? 100% lack of concentration. And another 10% stupidity thrown in for good measure.

Senna's was premeditated

well, yeh it was but it wasn't via a meeting with maps etc & it had more to to with the [mutual] hatred he had for Prost than anything else
It wasn't the team plotting it all out.

He also once deliberately spun his car at the end of qualli at Magny Cours in order to set the fastest lap - but that was pure brilliance

None of that is anything like what's been done here.

That Twonk Piquet would have crashed by himself anyway... shite driver he was...

Actually I think Piquet was fairly hard done-by in his Renault experience. He was never given the same car as Alonso. His team-mate was Alonso(!). And Flavio just basically used and abused him - even to the extent of requiring him to crash on demand and then accusing him of libel!

In a different team I reckon Piquet could develop into a good driver.

In a different team I reckon Piquet could develop into a good driver.

I see Alonso is claiming he knew nothing about it - as expected

He also said that he didn't question the odd fuel load as he doesn't concern himself with race strategy & leaves that to his race engineer 🙄
I really can't believe that of a man that is so focussed on every aspect of his race

The whole Alonso thing does sound suspicious on balance but there were some legitimate concerns about tyres/etc to make the chosen strategy not completely silly - eg from his low grid slot, he was unlikely to get any points by following a normal strategy. Having a fast car (relatively) with fast tyres and a low fuel load might just have worked and if anyone could have made it work, Alonso's the man...

I agree clubber but him saying he doesn't get involved with the strategy & leaves it to others ❓

Yeah, well that's clearly b*****ks - one of the reasons why everyone says he's one of the best drivers is precisely because he's intelligent and can make calls on strategy.

Do Renault think that by ditching Flabbio and Symonds they're going to get away with it?

Obviously they can't expect to get off completely but do they think they'll get off lightly through human sacrifice?

Depends what you mean by lightly - McLaren got a $100 million fine so I'd expect similar + some points deduction

I think they are trying to avoid getting booted out totally, which I think they'll manage now

Suspect that they don't want to get booted out so that they can sell off the team as it's worth a huge amount less without an F1 entry - Renault have been looking for a way out for years...

In a different team I reckon Piquet could develop into a good driver.

Disagree. Whining little shit.

Disagree if you like, but there's no need to call me that!

LOL! He did have a habit for blaming circumstances, his manager, his kit.

LOL! He did have a habit for blaming circumstances, his manager, his kit.

go on, name one driver that doesn't 😀

At least Hamo says 'I let the team down' or 'we win and lose races together'!

LOL! He did have a habit for blaming circumstances, his manager, his kit.

Don't you think, given the recent revelations, that he might have been onto something about his team manager not being much cop?

Renault have never been able to run two cars equally when Flavio has been at the helm. Look at the Benetton years. Brundle said he had one race when he was close to Schumacher and that was the last time he got equal machinery. Same for Herbert when he drove there. They have a favoured #1 driver and they make sure that one leads the way as it's better for the championship chances. I get the feeling if the #2 is happy playing second fiddle they give them better cars so they can work towards the constructors championship.

Anyway, Renault will get some stonking fine, probably smaller than McLaren's and all will continue.

Cos Brundle and Herbert set the world alight with their electric-talent otherwise? 🙄

Herbert once said he was more talented than Hill. LOL.

Herbert once said he was more talented than Hill. LOL.

He probably was, if not then definitely his equal. Unfortunately he never got to exploit that talent to it's potential due to the massive injuries suffered in his F3000 crash at Brands Hatch.

When did Brundle or Herbert have the machinery to set the world alight?

Herbert once said he was more talented than Hill. LOL.

Hill was mediocre in Forumla 3, never won a race in F3000 and was fortunate to be Williams test driver at the right time when Mansell left. I wouldn't say he was significantly better or worse than Herbert.

The Williams was so much better than the rest in that mid to late 90's era that even Jacques V won the WDC in it.

Herbert was a good driver - I'd rate him just as highly as Hill. That crash was absolutely horrific, with the chassis being mashed into his feet and legs. It was a miracle he ever walked again, let alone raced.

Still think that Piquet Jr has half a point - he was badly treated and used. How Flavio intends going after him for blackmail/libel I have no idea. Put it this way, I think Piquet comes out of this with a better rep than Flavio!

Brundle & Senna were very very close in F3, they never had similar cars in F1

I think Piquet comes out of this with a better rep than Flavio!

I think Piquet comes out of this with a better rep than Flavio!

Flav is still baby Piquet's manager & as such is entitled to 20% of his earnings for the next 15yrs

Now 20% of nothing isn't a lot but it's amusing all the same - in a perverse sort of way 😀

It is going to be interesting to see what punishment Renault get. I think deliberately endangering a drivers life and the others around him, in order to fix a race and therefore a championship should warrant a much bigger punishment than £100 million fine and loss of all constructors points, which IIRC is what McLaren got.
Or will the FIA show they are biased against mclaren once and for all?

The McLaren debacles were partly about the personality clash between Max and Ron, and this story had a similar dimension (Flavio being the chief of the "loonies" in Max's eyes) until Flav bowed out. Who knows what would have happened, but maybe McLaren's spygate penalty would have been less if Ron had fallen on his sword at the time?