OMG!

OMG!

Well they'd already pretty much admitted that hadn't they (the only dispute being over who's idea idea it was). No surprises about the falling on swords - presumably hoping to avoid punishment for the team by removing guilty parties.

Briatore has been happy to cheat, ever since the Schumacher days. Good riddance, Flabbio. Deliberatly putting a driver in danger is very serious so I would expect Renault to be severly punished by the FIA for this.

The transcription of the radio conversation doesn't seem to fit with this outcome.

The transcription of the radio conversation doesn't seem to fit with this outcome

No - it didn't seem to be the smoking gun everyone expected

[b]FIA adviser:[/b] Mr Symonds were you aware that there was going to be crash at Lap 14?

[b]Symonds:[/b] I don't want to answer that question.

Deliberatly putting a driver in danger is very serious so I would expect Renault to be severly punished by the FIA for this.

But the driver did that, not the team. Driver could have been asked to take himself out of the race, that could have been done by getting stuck in a gravel trap, not bouncing off a wall with huge financial costs etc. However to get a safety car out I suppose thats harder to fix.

The transcription of the radio conversation

I was assuming that would be fairly clean though, given they know these transmissions are being monitored nowadays - hence why it needed to be pre-arranged.

Whilst looking I found [url= http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78647 ]this transcript[/url] though, which is pretty damning by omission - especially when he says at the end that he'd expect conclusions to be drawn!

Driver could have been asked to take himself out of the race

The transcription of the radio conversation doesn't seem to fit with this outcome.

Funny that! Its hardly like Flavio's going to shout down the radio "Crash now Nelson!" is he?

The transcription is on planet f1. Can't link to it as i'm browsing with my pikey phone

Briatore has been happy to cheat, ever since the Schumacher days. Good riddance

Good riddance.

In addition, I dont think Piquet or Symmonds should get another job in F1 again. ALL are as bad as each other. Fixing races stinks.

A pundit on one of the F1 sites came up with a plausible MO - given what was already leaked

Alonso is put on low fuel in the hope of something happening & therefore making the most of his - out of position - grid slot & this is obviously discussed at the post qualli debrief
Baby Piquet later suggests to Symonds/Briatore that he could crash deliberately & help the odds a bit
Race day - after much chin rubbing - Piquet is called in & told when & where it would have the best effect

Piquet didn't think it up on his own, tho - the team asked him to crash at a corner where they knew it would cause a safety car incident. The transcripts wouldn't show anything as the whole thing was pre-planned and the team knew they would be monitored. The 'smoking gun' is the telemetry, which shows NP applied throttle harder and earlier on the crash lap and continued to hold it down after the car started to slide.

Hard to argue it really, the telemetry would give it away.

Still, briatore is "retiring" to holidays on the beach with his wife...
[img] [/img]

I'm sure he wont care.

But the driver did that, not the team. Driver could have been asked to take himself out of the race, that could have been done by getting stuck in a gravel trap, not bouncing off a wall with huge financial costs etc. However to get a safety car out I suppose thats harder to fix.

There aren't any gravel traps at Singapore IIRC - it's all Armco & concrete

So, what do you think attracted her to multi millionaire Flavio Briatore?

So, what do you think attracted her to multi millionaire Flavio Briatore?

His cash, that he probably still has...

I think Cheesy was being rhetorical 🙂

I think Cheesy was being rhetorical

😉

I wonder if Flav & Ecclestone will still sit together in the director's box at QPR?

If nothing else, at least something interestings happened in formula 1.

So "overtaking" via pitstop is too exciting for you - you prefer "overtaking" via law court? 🙄

Mad Max is trying to break the Fellowship of the Ring 😆

French team cheats after it becomes clear their motor conveyance is unable to compete with Germanic technology shocker.

This is a bit like Rumfeld's 'the knows we know' speech at the moment

But I guess the big question now is who else knew? - I guess by that I mean did Alonso know? before, after or not until now?

Which Germanic technology is that?

I like the fact that when Bernie was asked if Flavio was a friend he replied "he likes to think so"

I wonder if Ferrari will still want Alonso after this.
'Hello Mr Domenicali, please can you fix it for me to win a race because I haven't won any for a long time.'
Are Massa and Piquet Jr friends? Could make the Ferrari garage a bit tense!

At least it leaves Flavio free to stand for FIA president to replace Max!

I wonder if Ferrari will still want Alonso after this.

We await the Spanish Inquisition

I wonder if Ferrari will still want Alonso after this.

Can you remember Massa's race @ Singapore last year?

He was leading until baby Piquets crash
In the panic to get in & out of the pits under the [Renault manufactured] safety car Massa left whilst still attached to his fuel hose
it would be reasonable to expect him to have carried on & scored good points - probably won if that hadn't of happened

He would therefore have been world champ - had all other races last year still finished as they did

Can't condone cheating, but from a tactical point, it did work!

Which Germanic technology is that?

Merc engines? Probably only the badge but that wasn't the point I was jovially making ...

Which Germanic technology is that?

Must be that technology mainly developed in that part of Germany known as 'The Thames Valley'.

Flav for President?

Well he has juust taken a public spanking 😀

We await the Spanish Inquisition

You expect too much........................

Maybe they should just allow F1 teams to work as a team? I mean it's not like pro tour teams are trying to get a discovery/anasta/confidis/rabobank/etc 1,2,3 are they? They want 1 man on the podium and the rest of them to dutifully tow them to the line.

Can you remember Massa's race @ Singapore last year?

Must be that technology mainly developed in that part of Germany known as 'The Thames Valley'.

Brixwoth Northants. aren't they? - formerly known as Ilmor

What surprises me about this is not so much that they entertained the thought but that they thought it wouldn't come back on them. Involving Piquet was just asking for it to come out sooner or later, so what were they thinking?

Who cares that next year's racing is going to be less interesting without fuel stops

At least next year there won't be any guessing who's carrying what fuel in qualli - they'll all be on empty tanks so we'll see who's outright fastest.

At least next year there won't be any guessing who's carrying what fuel in qualli - they'll all be on empty tanks so we'll see who's outright fastest.

They are still stopping for tyres as this season - just not re-fuelling due to safety concerns.

Isn't a car carrying more fuel more dangereous if it crashes?

I can't remember the last F1 car that 'crashed & burned' - There's been one or two flare ups in the pits though

I did enjoy this last weekend & the fact that some were two stopping & some were on one stop, I even enjoyed the nonsense that says you have to run different tyres, it all spiced it up a bit. Not always like that though

I did enjoy this last weekend & the fact that some were two stopping & some were on one stop

I think the trouble with that this year is you know in advance who's doing what & when their stopping
I preferred it before they had to declare their weights

Even without fuel stops, different cars will have different strategies as each chassis reacts differently to every circuit and track temperature so some will still run with one stop but average slower, whereas others will run two stops for quicker lap times when they are out on track.

I still think that rain is the best bit - I think they should have rain laps on every race - just install mahoosive sprinklers all around the track and randomly switch them on at certain points of the race.

+1 for mahoosive sprinklers!

Funnily enough, Ferrari already have those at its Fiorano test track

Snow blowers too!

Funnily enough, Ferrari already have those at its Fiorano test track

Snow blowers too!

The ice racing is totally mad, that would be something to watch with F1 cars ... I read somewhere that the tyres are doing up to 150mph & the car is doing 70 sideways ... its where the old F1 drivers go anyway

[b]Can you remember Massa's race @ Singapore last year?

He was leading until baby Piquets crash
In the panic to get in & out of the pits under the [Renault manufactured] safety car Massa left whilst still attached to his fuel hose
it would be reasonable to expect him to have carried on & scored good points - probably won if that hadn't of happened

He would therefore have been world champ - had all other races last year still finished as they did[/b]

+1

Why havent the rest of you spotted this?

Def a very important feature of this story will be if Alonso can make it through without too much doo-doo sticking to him. He's still the number one driver in F1, and it would be a shame if he doesn't make into a Ferrari.

+1 for random sprinklers

And a big bag of ball bearings suspended over the chicanes, held together by a rope over a candle flame - will they? won't they?

Actually, I have a long-held view that F1 would be made more interesting by starting each race with the grid in reverse championship order - the quicker you are, the more you've got to overtake to get back up to the front.

Another cheating scandal and there's the Spaniard again!

"It was not mee, it was heem and heeem and heems"

A cheat for sure, and not the great champion he would like everyone to think.

+1 to that! The 'crash' was for Alonso's benefit but he's claiming he knew nothing about it? Lying bull-stabber.

I can't remember, is he a racist? Or did he eventually condemn the Spanish fans blacking up?

Yes it's bad but let's put it into context

Piquet crashed his car into the wall so his team mate could win a GP.

Senna admitted crashing into Prost to win the World Championship and it was also premeditated.

Schumacher crashed into Hill to win the World Championship.

Schumacher crashed into Villeneuve in an attempt to win the World Championship but failed

1994 - Bennetton under the control of Briattore/Brawn tampered with the fuel rig to get faster pit stops resulting in a fire that burnt numerous mechanics

In all but the Piquet Jnr incident other parties were involved in the actual incident. At least Piquet had the good grace to only involve himself - yes there might have been others involved such as marshals if it went wrong but same can be said for the other "accidents".

Oh, and I thought the ban on refuelling was to do with cost cutting and not having to transport all the kit around.

I'd be surprised if Alonso is particularly bothered whether anyone thinks he is a great champion or not.

Fact is, he is. Before Hamilton got the best rookie drive ever (not taking anything away from him, but a unique circumstance nonetheless) Alonso was the youngest ever race winner and WDC. He got the title twice, in a Renault (FFS) against the most successful driver ever.

FA is the best driver out there, and most people who know about F1 agree. He might not be perfect, character-wise, but F1 is a dirty business.

Yoda - I think the distinction is that when one driver collides with another, it is a unilateral decision made by an individual, not a pre-meditated plan by the team.

Also, I strongly believe those sort of incidents are heat of the moment decisions - just the adrenalin and a 'must win' attitude which are part and parcel of this kind of racing.

Just look at Cavendish blocking during the TdF...

glenp- I don't understand your 'in a Renault FFS' comment. Renault swept the world before them when they were an engine supplier to Williams. The Renault team itself was previously Benneton, who were multi Champion winners with the German. Just because they can't screw road cars together for toffee, you can't compare the two.

[i]I'd be surprised if Alonso is particularly bothered whether anyone thinks he is a great champion or not[/i]

I'm sure Alonso thinks his behaviour is all completed justified. That's half the problem. He got away with it last time, he needs slapping down.

I wonder if Flav & Ecclestone will still sit together in the director's box at QPR?

Of course they will, it's business. I wonder however if Flav will fall foul of the Football league regulation stating that a Chairman of a football club has to be "fit and proper" to perform that role.

It might get that egomaniac shifted from QPR.

I wonder however if Flav will fall foul of the Football league regulation stating that a Chairman of a football club has to be "fit and proper" to perform that role

There's certainly talk of that
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5564668,00.html

"We don't want a fault by two people to reflect upon the whole company and the entire Formula 1 team."

reply from bernie

'Is Flavio a good friend of yours?'

'He thinks he is.............'

Renault is not and has never been the top car. Bennetton had success with Schumacher and then became Renault and had success with Alonso - by a big margin the two best drivers of the era. Just look how few other wins that team has had in either guise without one of those two drivers. If the car had been dominant we would have seen multiple 1-2 finishes.

Not sure what you mean by Alonso getting away with it last time. If he was party to this thing then sure, he does deserve punishment.

[i]FA is the best driver out there, and most people who know about F1 agree[/i]

Not at all, I think barring a few notable exceptions, F1 at the moment (and probably more so than at any point in it's history) is full of drivers that could rightly claim that given the right equipment, they could win the championship. Alonso is a good driver, but he's one out of about 10-15 or so that are equally as talented.

Don't think so. True there are a good number that [i]could[/i] win in the right car. But some qualities are very rare.

Always beating your team-mate (true, the Hamilton experience clouds that one, but otherwise Alonso has never been challenged).

Dragging the car further up than it otherwise deserves.

Plus dogged determination. Ability to adapt driving style (Alonso's flair in that regard is virtually unique). Cool tactical head.

Anyway - long and short of it being that FA could walk into any F1 team (even including McLaren). Hamilton might come up to the same level in time, but I can't think of another driver in the same class (since Schumacher retired).

I disagree nick

out of the current bunch Alonso & Hamilton are clearly class acts, just look at how much they beat team mates by - there's not another 10 or 15 like them
In the next tier I'd put Rosberg, Vettel & Massa

If you follow all the rumours with say Rosberg, apparently he's desperate to partner Button next year rather than take the wheel along side Hamilton because he knows he can beat Button in the same machinery

Massa

Not so much Hamilton's talent as McLaren's team management to worry about. They can say what they like, but they are far too controlling to allow a straight fight.

I like Massa, but he is not in that absolute top class.

Vettel will be next big thing (well, he is already).

nah - Massa [along with Kimi]loses points by having a habit of losing interest mid-race if it's not going well

Off the top of my head:

Kubica last year at this point was winning the championship, car's let him down this year
Heidfeld last GP was 25th finish in row, beating a record set by Schumacher
Glock podium in a Toyota last year at Hungary
Massa Should have won last year, certainly had the measure of Hamilton
Riakonnen 2007 champion.

Then there's Vettel and Webber, Rosberg, Trulli, Sutil. put any one of those guys in the Brawn, they'd be on top.

put any one of those guys in the Brawn, they'd be on top.

I agree - but if they were all in Brawns?

nah - Massa [along with Kimi]loses points by having a habit of losing interest mid-race if it's not going well