molgrips - MemberWhy would Westminster always be moving to the right?
There doesn't seem any potential whatsoever for the Tories to move left, and Labour have no interest in being any more than 0.1mm to the left of the tories, since they've given up on the whole being a labour party thing. So where is the drive leftwards going to come from? Some new party? Hardly, the established parties and media have shown how good they are at putting down change.
At present any momentum is in the UKIP direction, and they aren't socialists!
All the better reason for Scotland to break the Westminster stranglehold around its neck. Imagine how you Scots will feel when the austerity axe starts to swing; you had the chance to detach yourself from it, but you were too chicken to take it... Oh well, we're all in this together...
since they've given up on the whole being a labour party thing
Parties change. No reason why the status quo will persist.
So where is the drive leftwards going to come from? Some new party?
No need. Labour drifted right when their voter base wanted it, they'll drift back left again if we want it. That's how democracy works. Funny you mention media being in control, as that's changing faster right now than it ever has. Who knows what changes that will bring even in a few years' time.
What are the bookies odds? They're normally right 😉
Its the class war innit. Always is in this country, and the Independence debate seems more and more to me to be about those that have something to lose against those that don't.
I'm lucky though, as least if I am forced to live in a tiny and underfunded country who can't afford to run public services properly, I can move to one with decent weather !
molgrips - MemberNo need. Labour drifted right when their voter base wanted it, they'll drift back left again if we want it.
I think you have 2 wrong assumptions there tbh. Labour's move right wasn't anything to do with what their voter base wanted- it was about taking over the "middle ground" and winning votes outside their traditional voting bloc. Smart electioneering.
And other than abandoning the party there's nothing the left wing voters can do to bring them back left- and we're not likely to do that, because even a Labour party 1 degree to the left of the Tories is still generally better than the Tories.
Labour's move right wasn't anything to do with what their voter base wanted- it was about taking over the "middle ground" and winning votes outside their traditional voting bloc
It wasn't what their grass roots wanted, no, but ok you make a fair point. It was a move to the right to recapture previous voters who'd drifted right themselves.
And other than abandoning the party there's nothing the left wing voters can do to bring them back left
If proper lefties stop voting at all, and Labour realise why, then they'll move back left. To be honest there's probably a huge section of disaffected voters who'd vote for a proper left wing party, even if it's only out of self interest. Almost everyone resents rich fatcats lining their own pockets (even if they have to imagine them). If that's not a rich seam of voters for Labour to mine I have no idea what is.
molgrips - MemberIt was a move to the right to recapture previous voters who'd drifted right themselves.
I don't think that's right- it was pretty clear that Blair was after new voters, people who were naturally right of labour.
molgrips - MemberIf proper lefties stop voting at all, and Labour realise why, then they'll move back left.
The basic problem with this, is that they're just not likely to do so in numbers, as long as Labour remain fractionally more palatable than the Tories. And remember, the gains on the right are twofold- Labour gains a vote and also takes away a likely tory vote. The losses on the left are singular because they'll never vote tory.
The idea that voting yes avoids future austerity is pure fantasy. Scotland faces similar debt dynamics but one sensible solution to dealing with it and one crazy one. But then again, AS has been trying to tell people that only rUK has been/will be increasing private sector provision of health services. One more fat porky from wee eck.
The closer we get, the bigger the porkies. Still the polls suggest that it's working. Oh, when reality sets in.....snake oil anyone?
THM = YAWN.
