But we're not just discussing annoying ads here. We're talking about redirects and attacks that should have no place in any advertising stream. The FOS might just be a pipedream at the moment but surely shutting off these ad engines should be an instant response while problems are resolved? I pay a whole £15 per year in support of the forum and so it could be argued that I have no skin in the game but not taking the nuclear option with ad feeds does smack of lack of consideration for the users.2) Relating to 1), the more often you use the site, the more likely it is that you'll churn through the 'good' adverts and start hitting the backfill.
[b]£15 per year[/b]
Doesn't seem much given how often many of the complainers are on here. Barely buys a bag of coffee....
STW is a commercial endeavour.
Is the key. I use other forums and they don't have this issue - but they are only trying to cover forum costs not pay staff wages
That's an assertion rather than a known fact though (unless Mark has said so)? I doubt it's absolutely possible to distinguish as much of the content is shared between print and web.the main issue is that this forum has to make money as its the only part of STW that does
surely shutting off these ad engines should be an instant response while problems are resolved?
And I expect that's exactly what will happen as soon as they get back to work on Monday. (-:
My point is that it should be configurable - something that can be done at the weekend by interested volunteers 😉
That's an assertion rather than a known fact though (unless Mark has said so)? I doubt it's absolutely possible to distinguish as much of the content is shared between print and web.
I've no idea how that's broken down. I do know that they're not all sitting there like Smaug on their piles of gold, and I also know that relatively minor changes to the site / forum can have a vast impact on its revenue (I've seen some of the analytics).
There is no "can't you just" with the STW forum, despite appearances it's a massively complex beast.
My point is that it should be configurable - something that can be done at the weekend by interested volunteers
It's a nice idea but see my previous comment. Even if we were entrusted with the keys to that, there is no way in hell I'd agree to it. A little click here, a little click there, and Mark can come in on Monday to work out who he needs to lay off this month.
Maybe my definition of configurable is different from yours. I'd be surprised/shocked if stopping an ad feed for two days had such an effect on overall revenue - and even then it should be weighed up against pissing off regular users (the same folk advertisers pay to reach).
Anyway... [b]£15 For a whole year of ad free browsing[/b]
Used to get this problem all the time, don’t have a ‘P’, just don’t use Google; I use DuckDuckGo as my preferred search engine through Safari. Simple.
None of which explains why STW is the only ONLY website I use that suffers from this nonsense. Couldn't report this last night due to rapidity of redirects.
I'm off to Mumsnet to ask about Centreparcs
£15 a year.
Fix the forum, mobile especially, and I would happily give them £15.
And I expect that's exactly what will happen as soon as they get back to work on Monday. (-:
Would someone, related to IT, not be ready to leap into action at the weekends/outside of the 9-5?
None of which explains why STW is the only ONLY website [b]I use[/b]
As above, both road.cc and Pistonheads have the same problem.
Chicken and egg?Jamie - Member
£15 a year.
Fix the forum, mobile especially, and I would happily give them £15.
I'd be surprised/shocked if stopping an ad feed for two days had such an effect on overall revenue
I have no idea, but I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest. It's kinda like the butterfly effect.
- and even then it should be weighed up against pissing off regular users (the same folk advertisers pay to reach).
And believe you me, any change is weighed up very carefully indeed.
One of the reasons for me visiting STW towers was to offer to help more with the technical side of the site. To which the answer was essentially "no you can't, and here's why."
Is the key. I use other forums and they don't have this issue - but they are only trying to cover forum costs not pay staff wagesSTW is a commercial endeavour.
There's nothing wrong with this: it's a business. On that note, I would have thought that the so called backfill class of ads in which the redirects etc. are hidden would be ideal for groups of fora and websites to combine together when selling ad space, since they are presumably fairly generic and unrelated to the nature of the forum. In other words STW sells primary ad space to CRC, Merlin etc. and Pistonheads to BMW etc., but I imagine both sell space to the same or similar 'backfill' ad space purchasers.
If so, even if it is impossible to get those ad space purchasers to weed out the redirects themselves, it would make sense for multiple fora to combine together when selling space to those purchasers, since the greater collective bargaining power should enable them to drive a harder bargain and get more money for the same amount of ads (or the same amount of money as currently but for fewer ads). Moreover, if multiple fora have sold space to the same provider, then their combined IT staff being able to compare notes with each other about problem ads will collectively give them all much greater resources when it comes to identifying those problem ads.
An attitude that the hordes of IT consultants on this site will have seen/dealt with countless times 🙂One of the reasons for me visiting STW towers was to offer to help more with the technical side of the site. To which the answer was essentially "no you can't, and here's why."
None of which explains why STW is the only ONLY website I use that suffers from this nonsense.
Aside from my post from less than an hour ago where I tried to explaine it, you mean?
Would someone, related to IT, not be ready to leap into action at the weekends/outside of the 9-5?
Dunno. I'd assume that would have to be a commercial decision. If you were part of Tech@STW, how much extra money would you want to be on standby every weekend? Meanwhile, let's turn off a revenue stream, it probably won't matter.
I'm not disagreeing with you BTW, just that simple solutions aren't always as simple as they appear.
slowster - I agree nothing wrong with that - its just a reason why this site is more prone that say the rugby forum I am on which only needs to cover hosting costs.
Scotroutes - IIRC it is what mark said in a similar discussion yonks ago.
part of
One guy innit?
Give the guys a break; STW is a small operation and to continue with their current business model requires revenue generation.
The model has been explained several times - see this thread and others.
If you want a guaranteed ad/pop-up free browsing experience, pay to become a P and turn the ads off.
By all means comment if you have problems but stop going on and on and....
How many additional Premier subscribers would STW need to remove their reliance on digital ads/pop-ups?
Frank. Serious talk now. Who is saying we need to get rid of the adverts? Most are perfectly happy with supporting the site through adverts. It's the redirects and browser hijacking people are not happy about.
It's all explained in the first post, and throughout the thread if it helps.
To which the answer was essentially "no you can't, and here's why."
What was the why?
How many additional Premier subscribers would STW need to remove their reliance on digital ads/pop-ups?
It's catch-22 isn't it. As Jamie said, [i]"Fix the forum, mobile especially, and I would happily give them £15."[/i] People (understandably) don't want to subscribe because they perceive issues with the forum, yet without more people subscribing there's less resource to improve the site and somewhat perversely a heavier reliance on advertising revenue.
What was the why?
Read back, I've already explained this, albeit briefly. TL;DR, "it's complicated."
Do any premier subscribers have the problems referred to throughout this thread?
"It's complicated" is a either reason for simplifying it or it's dogma.
And with that I'll bow out as I'm obviously upsetting Frank by "going on and on".
You are a touch virulent on the subscribe topic though 🙂
And with that I'll bow out as I'm obviously upsetting Frank
If the government ever taught us anything, it's to talk to Frank.
Give the guys a break
Do any premier subscribers have the problems referred to throughout this thread?
frankconway, I suspect that you might be missing the bigger picture. STW needs - and I am sure wants - to know about these issues and also the extent to which they are affecting users, and how users are reacting. Nothing would be worse for STW than for users and ad hits to disappear or fall off a cliff and [i]not to know the reason why and so not know how to fix the problem[/i]. Many other types of businesses, e.g. manufacturing or retail, would consider the sort of user feedback that threads like this provide to STW to be priceless.
With regard to Premier vs non-Premier users, I suspect it's far more complicated. It was stated on a previous thread (by Cougar I think) that the STW website attracts a very large number of visitors, presumably very many more than the number who have accounts. That is presumably because of the content that forum users provide, which I've occasionally noted can appear surprisingly high up in google searches about subjects not directly related to cycling. STW has to strike what is probably an extremely difficult balance between the nature and amount of ads it accepts vs. making the forum user friendly, given that it is the users themselves who create the content which brings people to the forum.
Scotroutes - suggest you re-read my post; no, you're not upsetting me - must try harder to achieve that 🙂
Bear - not 'virulent' about subscribing or anything else; you should know that the government never taught us anything 😉
Many other types of businesses, e.g. manufacturing or retail, would consider the sort of user feedback that threads like this provide to STW to be priceless.
Oh, absolutely.
Personally I get a bit frustrated with feedback of the "wah wah it's all bollocks" variety, simply because it's not constructive (but then I'm a grumpy git). Feeding back [i]why[/i] you think it's bollocks, that's helpful, unless it's the same thing fifteen other people have already said.
In the case of the rogue advert issues here, knowing where they're coming from is half the battle I believe, which is why screenshots and URLs are useful.
The flipside to that coin, is that despite submitting/reporting when things go sideways, nothing comes back. Which I guess can lead some to just vent frustration rather than detailed bug/event logs.
For example, the thread on the forum changes asking for feedback just got unstickied and ignored.
For example, the thread on the forum changes asking for feedback just got unstickied and ignored.
Maybe just maybe it wasn't ignored.
With regard to Premier vs non-Premier users, I suspect it's far more complicated. It was stated on a previous thread (by Cougar I think) that the STW website attracts a very large number of visitors, presumably very many more than the number who have accounts.
Exactly. I remember seeing a work mate looking at a STW thread about coffee machines. He'd never heard of this place before.
Really, as soon as you log in the ads should be removed (whether you're a P user or not).
Really, as soon as you log in the ads should be removed (whether you're a P user or not).
And stw closes for lack of revenue?
Cougar - ModeratorAside from my post from less than an hour ago where I tried to explaine it, you mean?
I didn't read it.
But what's the use of a forum you can't read due to redirects happening as soon as you open the forum? Google even throws up a "Whoa! Are you sure you want to go there?" Message. It's spammy crap, advertise with a better class to match the wood burning, coffee snob level of user.
Do any premier subscribers have the problems referred to throughout this thread?
I don’t, and I haven’t been a Premium, or any other sort of subscriber for years, and neither do I use any sort of ad-blocking system, I still get regular adverts.
I’m using my iPad Pro now, with iOS 11, at home, on wi-fi, and I’m just not getting these issues.
I [i]used[/i] to, and as I point out every time this topic comes up, I used to complain about redirects, or those equally irritating whole-page ads that used to block out the entire page, and couldn’t be got rid of, then I just changed to default browser in Safari from Google to DuckDuckGo, and I’ve never had a problem since.
Seems like a simple solution, Cougar has commented when I’ve mentioned it that he doesn’t understand why it works, but it does, at least in my experience over the last eighteen months-two years.
I'm not a premier subscriber and don't see any of the problems noted. Very rarely access the site on my iPhone but do so daily on my iPad (using Safari). Both devices have fairly old OSs as they can't deal with the latest versions of IOS. I get fairly regular "This operation could not be completed" dialogs when an ad fails to load or it's been coded badly.
I am not a P and although I have had the redirects / prony stuff etc in the past both on my desktop and phone ( firefox desktop, android / chrome on the phone, google as default search engine on both) this time around I have had none. given that I use a lot of pirate streaming sites to watch sport which are riddled with these sort of things I doubt the link to previous browsing history ( but ain't techy enough to really know)
Clean your history, delete cookies and stop looking at pron’.
My antivirus is always detecting stuff on sports webpages from dodgy flash pop ups.
To be honest the best hackers are not detected and have been surfing your stuff for years without notice.
CountZero - MemberI’m using my iPad Pro now, with iOS 11, at home, on wi-fi, and I’m just not getting these issues.
I'm not sure nipping out and spanking >£600 on an Apple product is an ideal solution though...
Yeah. I mean, that's a Premier sub for the next 40 years.
My antivirus is always detecting stuff on sports webpages from dodgy flash pop ups.
If it's "always" doing it then that probably speaks more about your AV TBH. Either that or your definition of "sports webpages" is not what it first appears.
To be honest the best hackers are not detected and have been surfing your stuff for years without notice.
Huh? How do you mean?
I've stopped getting redirects I think, I know how this works as I work as a desktop engineer. Someone rings up and I try to help with an email issue with them thinking I can just fix it, but it doesn't work that way when other parties are involved too, wherever has been done it seems to have worked so nice one!!
Our will I get a redirect when I try to post this hahaha
Maybe just maybe it wasn't ignored.
Explain.
Yeah. I mean, that's a Premier sub for the next 40 years.
I wonder if there would be a new forum in that timeframe?
Redirects seem to have stopped on iPhone 6 running latest OS...
Explain
Could be they’ve actually taken some of the feedback. 2007 is almost upon us.
