[Closed] Red or white poppy?

The PPU don't say they are a charity, they say they are an organisation.

km79 - Member
The PPU don't say they are a charity, they say they are an organisation.

Cougar - the peace pledge union is a charity

Not trying to be contentious, just trying to understand how they work.

Looks like you are right piemonster

TJ isn't alone in his thoughts, Craig. And these guys have both experienced war and lost people to it: [url= http://noglory.org/index.php/articles/359-never-again-anti-war-veterans-to-carry-white-poppy-wreath-on-remembrance-day ]Anti-war veterans[/url]

Craig, your comments are exactly why some people prefer the white poppy to the red. To attack people with such venom because they don't support "our boys" going to fight in a war they aren't forced to go to, having signed up to an army they weren't forced to join, to fight a non existent cause and more likely than not kill innocent people amongst the bad guys shows total disrespect for those innocent bystanders who lose their lives to a war they had nothing to do with.

The fact that some people prefer the idea of remembering everyone, forces and innocent, and promoting the idea of an end to all fighting does not make them pond life but decent, caring, compassionate people. Not aggressive rude people who go for people's throats on the internet.

craigxxl - I suggest you read my post again as that is not what I said in any way.

None of my immediate family have been killed in conflict is true. I have however nursed veterans and seen what it meant to them especially on the 60th anniversay of VE day and I have paid my respects on the beaches of Normandy, in Flanders fields and at the memorial to the Arctic convoys. I have stood and wept at the senseless waste of life. I remember a woman in her 90s who had a photo of her fiancee beside her bed. He went off to war and never came home.

I will never forget. Tears are close just thinking of these people

I must live a sheltered life. I had no idea white poppies were a thing.

[quote=slowoldman ]I must live a sheltered life. I had no idea white poppies were a thing.

They are if you want to make a fuss about not wanting to wear a red poppy.

I haven't attacked anyone for not wearing a red poppy or if they wear a white one. It the linking of red poppies to glorifying war ****s me off.
Munro, please quote me for when I attacked anyone for not supporting "our boys". I did join up. I did go to war and I have helped a lot more people than I've hurt rather than just talk about it on the internet.
Educator, I am anti war. I was very against the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions as were lots of other that I served with only to see mates come back physically and mentally injured. Again read my post and tell me where I object to anyone wanting peace.

craig - you ripped into me for something I did not say

Enough - I did not mean to start a row. Having had some hateful abuse on other social media over this I hoped for some mature discussion and to raise the profile of the white poppy a little.

It was a mistake to post it. for that I apologise

I ripped into you because you stated that the red poppy glorifies war. Never once have I looked at a red poppy, whilst laying a wreath or raising money for the RBL thought what a glorious war. I have thought about friends lost or injuried, wishing they had been but glad I'm able to help in raising funds to help them and and their families.

White Poppys are worn by self aggrandising, contrary, delusional fantasists who, thanks to the efforts of our brave soldiers, have created a country where they are able to spout their horse shite nonsense and yet still have the benefit of the selfless soldiers to protect them should they need it. Giving a few quid to help those who have suffered as a result and wearing a red poppy is the least people should do. It'd be nice to live in a world where everyone was nice to everyone else all the time but we don't so grow the **** up.

Never heard of White Poppys until now but I am sticking to Red Poppys.

deev - Member

White Poppys are worn by self aggrandising, contrary, delusional fantasists who, thanks to the efforts of our brave soldiers, have created a country where they are able to spout their horse shite nonsense and yet still have the benefit of the selfless soldiers to protect them should they need it.

Both my grandads used to wear the white poppy- one was in the siege of Malta, the other was on the arctic convoys. Moments like this, I really wish the forum rules didn't ban insulting people, because you deeply deserve some insulting.

Wear what you like, many died to allow you that freedom of choice, it would be nice if we could just respect each others choice. I've served for 20 years, I still have four to go, I've deployed to Bosnia, NI, Iraq and Afghanistan. In these places I've seen humanity at it's worst and at it's very best.

I've watched as men and women carry out the most selfless of tasks to protect the innocent, I've seen medics breakdown when they've failed to resuscitate a young child after stepping on an IED. Watched the fallout as a young man realises that a civilian was just killed in an exchange of gunfire and he may have been responsible. I've attended too many remembrance services for those being flown home for the last time, listened as their friends spoke fondly of the mate they will never sink a pint with again.

I've seen war, I've lived it, its shadow permanently left on my psyche. Only the naive and uninitiated glorify war; the rest of us see it for what it is evil, hateful and destructive, a maelstrom of confusion and violence that destroys lives, whose reach goes beyond the comprehension of those who sit at home waxing lyrical on their moral high ground.

This bullshit debate happens every year and it's as bad as politicians highjacking the appeal for their own ends. The poppy appeal is there to help all those who have served and their families when they need it, it's that simple. The act of remembrance is personal, remember who you like, how you like, just do so with decorum and respect. For some it is a deeply personal day, many stood amongst you will have personal demons come visit, it will be a deeply painful and emotional day.

Stop the debate and just be mindful of your words and actions.

That. ^

Craigxxl

Will you please read my post again. You ripped into me for something I did not say.

I observe remembrance and understand its true meaning far more than many.

I object to the hijacking of remembrance by politicians for their own reasons. I object to warmongering wearing red poppies. I object to the pressure put on people in the public eye to wear a red poppy.

I want to remember all the dead of all wars civilian and military.

Red poppy here.
"lest we forget" and what moose said.

It's not the poppy's fault, but like the English flag it's been hijacked by the nationalists, the bigots and the racists. Stuff like this:

[img] [/img]

What can be done about this? I don't know. But it's one reason why I don't wear a poppy.

moose has said all that needs to be said on this, everybody else should just walk away from the thread.

Excellent words from moose, thank you.

Can I suggest that after moose's post this thread is closed again?

there really isn't anything more to say, it's all bickering from now on.

I ripped into you because you stated that the red poppy glorifies war.

Of course it glorifies war. It doesn't have to, but that's how it has been used by Westminster politicians and the UK media.

It has become a propoganda device to promote a nasty strain of British nationalism, one which harks back to days of empire; which glorifies and promtes the military and has utter disdain for anything non-British/English.

The poppy has become a way to publicly endorse the values of the Daily Mail.

[url= https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/the-annual-rant-about-poppies/ ]This blog post[/url] nails it I think.

Shut the post? That's a bit totalitarian, isn't it?

Thank you moose.

[i]Shut the post? That's a bit totalitarian, isn't it? [/i]

it was shut last night?

No idea why it was resurrected, tbh.

Keep it shut, don't need 'kin hand wringing wind up merchants talking shite!

There are many reasons for and against wearing a poppy but in my opinion only 1 or 2 reasons are justified. I wear one to remember ex colleagues and donate to a charity that supports them but a great uncle refused to because he thought lessons weren't learned.

The right try and use it as a patriotic symbol (don't get me started) and the left try and vilify it as glorifying war (deliberately missing the point to suit their ideals).

Wear, it don't wear it, I really couldn't give a flying monkeys, but the minute you start looking down on someone for their choice, you wouldn't get a pint off of me post night ride.

What moose said.

Keep it shut, don't need 'kin hand wringing wind up merchants talking shite!

You must be new, they could run into hundreds of pages doing just this.

it was shut last night?

No idea why it was resurrected, tbh.

I reopened it as I felt it was a topic which needed discussing. We don't gain anything, or learn anything, by pretending a problem doesn't exist.

Thanks for opening it up again. Well worth discussing.

"Keep it shut, don't need 'kin hand wringing wind up merchants talking shite!"

It's confusing; apparently those who died in WWs 1 and 2 did so to ensure we retained the freedom to debate issues. I would have thought demanding that freedom be removed to be somewhat contradictory to this, and disrespectful to those who sacrificed.

The whole Red Poppy thing has become highly politicised; newsreaders being lambasted in the national press for not wearing one is an example of this. Which needlessly detracts from the whole point of wearing poppies, which I feel has become somewhat anachronistic anyway. Personally, I feel it is a disgrace that those injured in war aren't afforded all the help they need without having to rely on charity.

As for 'glorifying' war; the picture posted by Bencooper of the jet with poppies on it, is doing exactly that.

"Can I just check, is that the same Peace Pledge Union who supported The British Union of Fascists, and said that Hitler would be regarded as one of the great men of his time?"

I'd be interested in learning more about this. Do you have any links to information? I can't find anything myself, that supports your statement.

The whole Red Poppy thing has become highly politicised; newsreaders being lambasted in the national press for not wearing one is an example of this

TBH, that's not the fault of the poppy, it's the fault of the gutter press using any means possible to throw stones at people they don't like. Which seems to be anyone who isn't a fascist spunkbubble these days.

I can't wait for next years poppy thread.

You must be new, they could run into hundreds of pages doing just this.

er, not really....this sums it up!

I can't wait for next years poppy thread.

Just keep this one running.

Wear, it don't wear it, I really couldn't give a flying monkeys, but the minute you start looking down on someone for their choice, you wouldn't get a pint off of me post night ride.

What moose said.

This. (I'll even forgive the "off of", it's "from"!. Grrr 😉 )

Moving words from Moose

The hijacking of poppy wearing by politicians and the media judgements on those who choose not to wear one do a dis-service to ex-soldiers.

"TBH, that's not the fault of the poppy, it's the fault of the gutter press using any means possible to throw stones at people they don't like. Which seems to be anyone who isn't a fascist spunkbubble these days."

But it has become politicised. There's no escaping that.

As such, I think the decision by FIFA to not allow the displaying of poppies on British nations in football matches is correct. But then, this actually exposes the hypocrisy of FIFA's own rules regarding 'religious symbols'; many nations have crosses or other religious symbols as part of their team badges. So whilst I agree with the FIFA decision (these are, after all, the rules), I do think that it should be up to individual players to chose whether or not to wear the symbol. In the context of the England v Scotland game, I see no issue with players wearing poppies. But regarding the Wales V Serbia game; the poppy is a symbol of remembrance of British war victims, so I don't think it's appropriate to wear it at that game. I have no issue at all with it being worn in club sports here. Or by supermarket workers, or council office staff, to indeed anybody. It should be a matter of personal choice.

Salutes Moose. Red poppy and the money to support the work of the British Legion.

But it has become politicised. There's no escaping that.

Isn't wearing a white poppy as a symbol calling for peace a deliberate act of politicising remembrance?

the poppy is a symbol of remembrance of British war victims,

Are you sure about that?

You might want to tell the other countries that wear them in case they hadn't realised.

As an ex-soldier, although only of 5 years service, i can fully support what Moose says, there is no glory in conflict at all and i can honestly state that i never met anyone serving in the UK military that i would ever have deemed a warmonger.

What the wearing of a red poppy symbolises to me is those men and women, who did not have a choice whether they wanted to fight, but who died in their droves in WW1 and WW2 and who came home to no or little support, often with terrible injuries and to who people like the British Legion were a lifeline. My nan lives in a British Legion supported bungalow. They did not have a choice and those two generations of lives and the world itself was changed forever.

Whether you wear a red poppy, a white poppy (which i personally feel is just seeking to be political and there are places you could direct your money and your effort to, such as Bikebouys donation to Red Cross), i don't really care, just do not make a mockery of what generation after generation of men went through.

There are still young men and young women coming home today, who did not choose where they were deployed, but did not question it, who have terrible physical and psychological injuries who deserve our support. They don't want political slogans or forum arguments, they want treatment, support and help to get back on their feet, that is what charities like the British Legion provide .

/\ and that

I wouldn't promote the wearing of a red or white poppy, both are nonsense.

I'd rather advocate people read a history book or 5, at anytime throughout the year, rather than take part in pointless "remembrance" once a year.