[Closed] Red Arrows

Not a good year for them 🙁

Crash.

Sorry but I'm not a fan.

And you chose to comment why exactly?
A wife and children are without a husband / daddy tonight. Show some respect! FFS

Sad news.

Terrible news. Thoughts with his family.

[i]Sorry but I'm not a fan.[/i]

A 'fan' of what exactly?

esselgruntfuttock - Member
Sorry but I'm not a fan.

A 'fan' of what exactly?

I'm guessing he's not a fan of death.

Any loss is sad.

I do question the need for the Red Arrows in this current climate when we have troops on the front line with shortages of essential kit??

I do question the need for the Red Arrows in this current climate when we have troops on the front line with shortages of essential kit??

Red Arrows are funded almost exclusively through sponsorship. Last time I heard (which admittedly was a good few years ago), it only cost the taxpayer about £3 million a year which, to fund 9 planes and pilots plus the massive amount of logistics alongside it, is nothing.

They consistently pull in far more than that in revenue and they're probably the best recruitment tool the RAF could ever hope for.

Not been a good end of season for them though. RIP 🙁

RIP to another Red Arrow

Crash.

Sorry but I'm not a fan.

What a pathetic inane self obsessed comment. Why even bother posting such crap?

All the pilots flying in the Red Arrows have previously operated at least one tour in fast jets serving their country, most recently in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm sorry to cause offence. Non intended, simple off the cuff comment unlike me.

Hands up. I'm a bit of a cock this evening.

RIP 🙁

How much do the Red Arrows cost to run each year?

The benefits of the Red Arrows far outweigh the cost, promoting British interests and acting as an international ambassador for British industry. Further information relating to budgets should be directed to Royal Air Force 22 Group.

The Ministry of Defence considers that British tax payers should not bear the cost of overseas tours. The Red Arrows overseas tours, representing and demonstrating the very best of British excellence, are largely met by sponsors.

[url= http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/faqs.cfm ]Red Arrows FAQ[/url]

Very sad, & probably another nail in their coffin (no pun intended), but well done to bikebouy for putting his hands up straight away.

Sounds like a horrendous incident. RIP and thoughts to the guys who had to extract him.

RIP

its a dangerous job but still gotta be one of the most coveted

I remember watching a fairly recent program about the Red Arrows, they were visiting the Blue Angels' home base for an airshow. Blue Angels flew their show, came back & watched the Reds. Jaws on floor time from the Blue Angels pilots...

RIP

on a technical note, and not in anyway trying to say this is anything other than a tragedy, i thought most ejector seats were now zero zero, as in zero elevation and zero speed required to make them safe?

when we have troops on the front line with shortages of essential kit??

Who, where and what kit?

I just checked wiki for the same reason, and they do have zero-zero ejector seats apparently.

Tootall perhaps I should say troops, middle east and armored wagons for a start

I am ex RAF and in the 90's the Hercules fleet was suffering a cronic shortage of parts with planes grounded for ages and being "robbed" for parts just to keep other planes flying

Yet millions are spent every year so folk can say coor, ooh and arh etc

wasting your time tootall, cant compete with the daily mail circulation.

i thought most ejector seats were now zero zero, as in zero elevation and zero speed required to make them safe?
.....
I just checked wiki for the same reason, and they do have zero-zero ejector seats apparently

either they dont, or it didnt work correctly according to early speculative reports

didn't another pilot die earlier this year?

I don't understand why he got ejected? why would that happen, why would it happen if the plane was on the ground? I thought it was only in the air you did that?

and what's the pole in the pilot seat for?

very sad

"I don't understand why he got ejected? why would that happen, why would it happen if the plane was on the ground? I thought it was only in the air you did that?"

Absolutely priceless! 🙂

Oh yes ladies and gentlemen... we really are ****ed!

it didnt work correctly according to early speculative reports

That would be my guess

soobalias - Member
wasting your time tootall, cant compete with the daily mail circulation.

yea yea yea and the NHS is in good shape too as well as the education system with the grade going up all the time and not the standards dropping

The Pole is a guide rail for the ejector seat

BTW I read the I newspaper

Chatting to my neighbour, exBA exVirgin exEasyjet pilot, turned out he used to fly for the forerunners of the the Red Arrows, the Pelicans or Sparra's or summit. He was one of first pilots to land/takeoff jets from ships apparently.

People like hime make one feel rather inadequate when compared to these chaps

erm, sorry razor, some of us don't know all about everything, ok? 🙄

if you want to have a discussion about textiles or yarn patterns or denier I'm your girl, but ejection I'm not so hot, soz....

pratt

I thought it was only in the air you did that?

A zero-zero seat will take you out of a stationary aircraft in case of an emergency. It fires the pilot away from the aircraft (which could, for example, be on fire) and high enough so that the parachute can deploy to soften his landing. Obviously only speculation, but since the aircraft showed no sign of damage it's possible the seat could have fired unexpectedly. If the pilot isn't properly secured or not expecting the seat to fire, it's very likely to result in serious injury.

Well said emsz. Ejection seats need to operate even when the plane is on the ground because in the event of an accident (landing, take-off, whatever) there is risk of fire/explosion. Although fatalities are generally associated with a plane being in the air, they can still occur when the plane is on the ground.

EDIT : as detailed by johnners ......

emsz - Member
erm, sorry razor, some of us don't know all about everything, ok?

if you want to have a discussion about textiles or yarn patterns or denier I'm your girl, but ejection I'm not so hot, soz....

pratt

Sorry emsz, but people get quite emotive about these kind of things, if you jump in then you better have either a good reason or a good understanding, it's just the way it is. Too many people these days have little morals & understanding of what it takes to put their life on the line, those that have, have.

Not that I am one, but I do respect it.

right, thanks ernie and johnners, I didn't realise they could do that, but it makes sense.

still nightmare for his family, how sad

The pole is the 'main gun' it usually has a couple of explosive cartridges which, when initiated, release gas and force the telescopic 'pole' (with the seat) clear of the aircraft. This process is assisted by a rocket pack under the seat. At the full extent of the 'pole' the rocket pack continues to fire the seat into the air. It takes quite a lot of force to pull the handle. A very sad loss for the second time this year...

2unfit2ride, so unless someone has a working knowledge of ejector seats for instance, they should just but out of this experts discussion? Nice.

I didn't know they were called zero-zero seats (if indeed they are) but I hope I am still allowed to have sympathy for the pilot. Once they have made it there they must feel on top of the world, those left behind surely can't feel much lower now. Sad.

+1

Tracker1972 - Member
2unfit2ride, so unless someone has a working knowledge of ejector seats for instance, they should just but out of this experts discussion? Nice.

I didn't know they were called zero-zero seats (if indeed they are) but I hope I am still allowed to have sympathy for the pilot. Once they have made it there they must feel on top of the world, those left behind surely can't feel much lower now. Sad.

My point was that people can get quite emotive on the subject of the armed forces & people who are prepared do do more than I for their country, you are free to express your views in anyway you see fit, as is anyone, but that opinion may or not be right.

Cheers.

you are free to express your views in anyway you see fit, as is anyone, but that opinion may or not be right.

For goodness sake, she didn't express any opinion. It was just a simple question asking why ejector seats needed to operate if the aircraft wasn't airborne.

I was in RAF as a weapons technician in the early 90's and just about started working on ejector seats when I was pensioned out. There are thousands of reasons why this could have happened and it looks like a rogue booster has fired within the main lift tube which is enough to send the chair and poor pilot out of the cock pit but the rocket propellors which then fire to send it clear and high from the craft have not.

My guess would be it sent the poor pilot high enough to have suffered injuries as he would have still been detached to the chair and not high enough to get any lift out of the parachute.

RIP another hero gone too soon.

No Ernie, she called someone a prat, no need for it if you just want to show your respect on the thread.

Edit, I was typing before the previous post, I wouldn't of done otherwise.

2unfit, sorry I didn't have an opinion, i was just trying to understand what had happened and there's loads of blokes on here that know all about those things. I'll leave the thread alone

You saw what it was in response to didn't you ? : [i]Absolutely priceless! Oh yes ladies and gentlemen... we really are ****![/i]

Anyway, back on topic. As a kid I always enjoyed seeing the Red Arrows - always impressive stuff. And yes, in part because it was dangerous, so sadly occasional fatalities, whilst always tragic, are I guess, not totally unexpected.

Emsz, don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go per see, but lets just let the thread go the way it should & side step the grips, if we all could just bow our heads & think of his family then we would be doing well.

Love yah.

My haste to make a cup of tea kind of missed the fact that the arsey comment wasn't even made by you 2unfit2ride, god I hate it when people post shit without reading properly, me on this occasion so I should really have directed most of that at razor, not you, sorry.
Still don't think anything razor said was in any way called for though, lack of understanding and asking a question is learning. Ridiculing it is not on but, yes, peoples blood does run a bit hot if they are close enough to any shitty situation. I hope that's the case.

EDIT-great, and now putting the dishwasher on before replying means I miss a bunch more posts. Agreed, this isn't what this is about, apology still stands though. Bed now so no more cross posting.

Tracker, thanks, I really just want to let the thread run as it should but I couldn't let your post go without replying.

Cheers.

Tootall perhaps I should say troops, middle east and armored wagons for a start

Factually incorrect. Current armoured vehicles are world-beating, saving lives on a daily basis and the envy of many other nations.

Next Daily Fail-fuelled inaccuracy?

Rather sad seeing these deaths from plans through my years have entertained me in the sky's

2unfit2ride - Member

I really just want to let the thread run as it should

It's incredibly obvious that you don't.

The TV news is now saying that the parachute didn't open either...

Tootall

alas I feel you have limited knowledge ( and wear rose tinted glasses )on the subject of the armed forces and the kit they have.

Perhaps you listen too much to government spin. Or my forces contact are FOS

Or am I wrong????

Does the canopy release first to allow the seat to clear. It appears that the canopy was still in place which would suggest that the pilot may have been fired through the canopy. Not good if that did happen.

The canopy contains a miniature detonating cord to shatter the canopy as part of the ejection sequence. There a lot of things which have to happen in a specific order during an ejection and the amount of things which could go wrong are many.
A tragic incident and an awful year for the team.