Should be road legal ideally...Currently debating a Suzuki DRZ400E what are the alternatives? I'm not massively up to speed on motorbikes.
Cheers
whatever makes it most difficult for cyclists who want to ride the same stuff afterwards I guess?
go for a 4stroke, with elecki start.
yam - wr426 /400, suzzi - dr400, ktm exc 450
or a kx500 for a laugh... having said that I had a KTM 200 exc for a few years... nice bike...
a fella in southerndownhill has a drz for sale at the mo.
I'd just go for the most powerful, noisy thing you can lay your hands on. I believe the trick is to ride round slowly (because you can't really ride worth a wa*k) until you see someone else, at that point rev the thing as hard as you can, wheelspin and cover everyone in sh1te and or rocks ... the added bonus is that you'll also rip the trail up, making it a total mess for you and everyone else!
Loosing the ability to read a map and distinguish what are and aren't legal rights of way will also be an advantage.
OHHHHHHHhhhhhh some harsh comments from the green eyed monsters :-p
If you're going to race, a ktm 200 exc would be the ideal bike. If you want to potter around green lanes and do the odd Trail Bike Enduro Club event then a DRZ would do nicely.
If you're an unskilled you'll want a bike you can foot (ie depending on your height check seat height/width so you can get a foot down to push/support etc and the more a bike is over the more it weighs) so this restricts choice - I'm very short, I loved dt175,Xr200/Beta Alp/serows aka xt225- low, underpowered, very high functionality, I loved my kdx200 then kdx220 was brilliant, much,much quicker, but I could only get one tiptoe down by sitting on edge of seat.
4st may be more beginner friendly (flatter power curve), a hot 4st can be an arse to start, (esp when knackered and I can assure you that dirt bike riding is harder then mountain biking)-ie leccy start
It is worth checking maps/ROW as it's now closed down to such an extent that I'd suggest it unviable in many areas.
Honda Xr, Yam WR, Suz DR350/DRZ. crm250 2t (also papmera 2t - trails)
Have fun - and you will on a dirt (motor) bike
Not done any green laneing for about 5 years, so can only give my opinion from then.........1st bike, KLX 250 = underpowered, unreliable, uninspiring to ride. 2nd bike = Yam WR400, Overpowered, Poor (ba5tard to get it right) starting, bit heavy, stalled very easy when going slow, decent handling. 3rd bike, KTM EXC 520, Bloody Hell What a Beast, everything good appart from TOOOO MUCH POWER. 4th bike KTM EXC 400, WOW Perfect, Easy starting, both electric and kick, Power and delivery spot-on, 6spd which make a huge difference on the road bits, light for a 400, never stalled, could also do 90+ on forest tracks :wink:. Last bike, Honda CRF 250X, Very light, great handling, BUT..only 5 gears, no torque &and stalled too easy..............KTM EXC 400 By far the best.
crikey, some hostile responses from wwaswas and still s8tannorm! Are you guys (tools) OK if I drive my car to work or fly to go on holiday?
Maybe I should point out that I'm currently trying to help the cops in South Wales pick off the illegal scramblers and 4x4ers who wreck the FC land and DH tracks here.
Anyway, I appreciate the useful feedback, I used to do a fair bit when I was younger growing up in West Wales so I hope I'm reasonably competent already! Good point about the leccy start, last thing I want is a kick start in 2 foot of mud I guess!
I'll check out all the recommendations...mmmm KTM...
Some people just don't get it do they? A green lane is a legal vehicular access so why shouldn't someone ride a motorbike there?
Go ride your bike on a motorway and cry at all the fast cars 🙄
sorry, I thought this thread on an MTB site was a troll so decided to see if I could 'out troll' the OP. It appears to have worked!
Anyway, seems I overestimated you MintyJim, please accept my apologies.
My view on green laning;
Just because you can ride a motorbike/bicycle/whatever somewhere doesn't mean you should. If it doesn't cause the next person along any problems then fine but my experience is that everywhere that 4x4's and motorbikes go offroad becomes imapssable to all other subsequent users.
My view on green laning;Just because you can ride a motorbike/bicycle/whatever somewhere doesn't mean you should.
Same could be said for riding a bike - it annoys walkers you know?
Can't help but be surprised that any MTBers should be [i]for[/i] "green laning", whether its cars or motorbikes. They f*&k up the trails, are noisy and shit for the environment. But then again STW should [i]never[/i] surprise me!
I think people need to remember that some people like to ride bikes for their own reasons and not everyone shares a common view on the environment.
Yes I like riding an MTB
Yes I like riding a road bike
Yes I like fast cars
Yes I like pratting around with motorbikes and 4x4s on green lanes
No I don't expect everyone else to feel the same as me
m_f - I was referrign to damage to the actual scenery, not peoples feelings.
If someone wants to ride around the countryside on a motorbike then fair play to them.
If they churn up everywhere they ride so that it becomes impossible for all other user to follow then that's not good.
Same applies to horses, mtb's and cross bikes.
There's areas near me I avoid in the winter because I know that they get churned up by mtb's (and others).
As I said above - I had assumed it was a troll post and responded accrodingly. Anyway, I'm off to a ramblers forum to ask what mtb I should buy.
[i]Anyway, I'm off to a ramblers forum to ask what mtb I should buy.[/i]
EXACTLY what I was thinking !
m_f - I was referrign to damage to the actual scenery, not peoples feelings.
But the point is that a green lane is a vehicular access so damage will be expected. There are many more bridleways MTBers can use if they don't like the damage. And where damage gets too severe the access is closed down anyway (like on Mastiles Lane for example).
Riding in the NY Dales and Moors I often come across rutted lanes and I either ride around them or treat them as just another trail obstacle.
I think we're not going to agree on the 'damage is to be expected and if it becomes impassable to everyone it gets shut' argument.
For that reason I'm out.
Of course you're right M_F, but that doesn't mean we should approve of it.
For that reason...
'damage is to be expected and if it becomes impassable to everyone it gets shut'
You twisted words there. Well done.
not twisted, just summarised;
[i]the point is that a green lane is a vehicular access so damage will be expected ... where damage gets too severe the access is closed down anyway (like on Mastiles Lane for example). [/i]
Sorry was I not clear enough? The VEHICULAR access is closed down. So the damage can naturally repair.
It never becomes impassable to everyone (I said when damage becomes too severe) - have you ever not been able to get past a few ruts?
get a Honda Xr or Suzi Dr. I ride my 990Adv on the occasional lane, but it's a bit of a beast if you drop it or need to push it.
wwaswas - "Anyway, seems I overestimated you MintyJim" oh thanks! Shouldn't it be 'underestimated'?? Ah, whatever. I accept your apology!
In my defence I did post on the Chat Forum for advice.
Again, in my defence I only ever went on legal fireroads, greenlanes that are so full of mud and water that you cannot possibly cycle an MTB down them. I have been a mountain biker for 19 years or so I'm not riding a motorbike to **** it up for anyone else.
I don't really get the anger.
Now I know 4x4 & MX bikes knacker green lanes but there are so few lanes they are able to go on now that it's half to be expected and if you don't like it avoid lanes and stick to bridleways.
Same goes for walkers, if you don't like the way bike and horses cock up bridleways stick to footpaths where you won't be sharing.
Live and let live
Live and let live
Well said and pretty much sums it up in my view.
listen here legal but more often than not antisocial
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As in every walk (or ride) of life, you get those who don't respect others. Your point being?
As in every walk (or ride) of life, you get those who don't respect others. Your point being?
might be true but doesn't mean that it is acceptable
live and let live i guess means be tolerant of antisocial behaviour
and what is the point of that?
live and let live i guess means be tolerant of antisocial behaviour
What is anti-social about people enjoying getting out and doing something they enjoy in a legal manner.
It is only anti-social in your eyes because you don't like it. Just like the walkers who don't like you riding your bike where they are walking - to them YOU are anti-social.
Now had your point been about motorcyclists using bridleways or trail centres I would agree with you entirely, but they are riding in a 100% legal manner.
wwaswas, still s8tannorm, antigee, DezB - 🙁
so its fine for you lot to ride your bikes, but others cant... the argument goes both ways.. everyone who uses the countryside damages it...
there are only 5000 odd miles of legal lanes left for greenlaners...
yes there are guys on MX'rs out there.. but there are inconsiderate MTB'ers too... i am not saying 2 wrongs make a right, just we all are out there having fun, legally.
antigee: live and let live i guess means be tolerant of antisocial behaviour
and what is the point of that?
unreal... such a blinkerd view.
What is anti-social about people enjoying getting out and doing something they enjoy in a legal manner
answer = noise level and excessive erosion
i keep being told that responsible offroaders hover silently in the countryside whilst doing ad hoc track maintenance but have yet to witness these angels of the lanes
as to making any comparison with mountain biking thats the same mistake that many landowners and objectors to mountain biking make - i suspect that those mountain bikers that feel the need to align with motorised off roaders are probably at the less responsible end of the spectrum
i am amazed this isn't a troll
not even the winter part of the OP? come on! isn't?
so its fine for you lot to ride your bikes, but others cant
fine without a motor
unreal... such a blinkerd view
not sure - take for example sychronised swimming - i don't understand it, i think people that do it enjoy the challenge - but ultimately it harms no one elses day out
listening to off roaders gunning it along green lanes and causing considerable erosion has a negative impact on other peoples enjoyment of the countryside - thats not a blinkered view
i suspect that those mountain bikers that feel the need to align with motorised off roaders are probably at the less responsible end of the spectrum
so now your saying if we like bikes and 4x4's we are irresponsible...
let me put this into context... I have been riding MTB's and racing for years... I have put a lot of time and effort into building and maintaining trails wherever I have lived... I have helped run clubs and events...
yer... really irresponsible...
I guess you have never ridden on a footpath...
answer = noise level and excessive erosion
But they are entitled to be there in their motorised vehicles - so why shouldn't they make noise and dig it up a bit as they pass? If you don't like the noise, ride somewhere they can't legally go - you have much more choice then they do.
I think it is a very selfish view to ride an MTB in open countryside but then say someone else shouldn't have the same liberties. Do you have the same view about people on horses digging up bridleways?
so now your saying if we like bikes and 4x4's we are irresponsible...
ok [i]some[/i] of them but i'm still suspicious that those that think some bad lawmaking from the fifties that allows noise and erosion in the middle of national parks is a jolly good thing may not be always the best people to show how responsible mountain bikers can be
yes i ride footpaths - same problem bit of legislation - i stop and smile at dog walkers and always ride thru puddles and use slick tyres and never pedal hard and fart very quietly
legal vehicles driven responsibly cause little issue. Its the illegal ones that cause problems.
I think it is a very selfish view to ride an MTB in open countryside but then say someone else shouldn't have the same liberties.
am quite happy for anyone that rides/drives a motorised offroad bike/car to ride an MTB - see that was easy but i don't see why someone should have a legal right based around a bit of poor legislation to allow an antisocial leisure activity which spoils other peoples enjoyment of the countryside
[i]churning up[/i]? not really, can ride thru it - not seen any 2or 3ft deep ruts caused by horses and i'm sure i've never heard one coming from 1/2 mile awayDo you have the same view about people on horses digging up bridleways?
a bit of poor legislation to allow an antisocial leisure activity which spoils other peoples enjoyment of the countryside
It spoils yours. It doesn't spoil most peoples'. For one I happily ride trails and get past by bikers (and usually wish I was on one at that point). As said before, don't ride green lanes if you don't like it - simple as really.
can ride thru it - not seen any 2or 3ft deep ruts caused by horses and i'm sure i've never heard one coming from 1/2 mile away
It is easy to ride through most bike ruts and if you can't, you ride around them. If you can't ride around them, pick your bike up. It isn't difficult.
I think you are arguing for the sake of it - as said before, if it is such a problem to you, just don't ride the green lanes in the first place - there isn't exactly many anyway!
TandemJeremy - Memberlegal vehicles driven responsibly cause little issue. Its the illegal ones that cause problems.
The man speaks sense, some of these guys repair lanes, cut back hedges and keep the access open. They bumble along at 5mph and enjoy it and I think they are the majority. They realise just as we MTB lot should that being anti social only gets you bad press and ultimately banned by the all powerfull bobble hats.
Unfortunately a small few will ruin it for everybody and they are the ones who people remember and therefore a harmless bunch enjoying a day out get stigmatised.
Ramblers don't like us either you know.
Therefore Live and Let live doesn't mean be tolerant of antisocial behaviour but rather don't stigmatise an entire group of people who arn't that dissimilar to us.
There's a shed load of countryside out there, I've ridden for whole days and seen nobody. Lets not be too quick to get rid of people who don't share our hobby because we don't like it when it happens to us.
What if you can't walk or cycle or ride a horse? Should you never be allowed off tarmac?
What was it Martin Niemöller said.....
Get a copy of TBM (trail bike magazine) and maybe look at enduronews.com. As an alternative to KTM etc TBM had a couple of low(er) powered (and cheap) spanish bikes from Rieju and AJP in the last couple of months, they sound ideal for trail riding although build quality may leave something to be desired.
I think it depends on whether you are ever going to take it racing, I'm still learning to ride my 250F and can't imagine needing more power or suspension any time soon, even when racing on a closed course.
In fact here we go
First the Bobble Hats Red Socks brigade came… [i](see what I did there)[/i]
First they came for the Trial bikers, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a Trial biker;
Then they came for the 4x4 lot, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a 4x4 driver;
Then they came for the Horse riders, and I did not speak out —
because I was not a Horse rider;
Then they came for Mountain Bikers—
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
(and yes we have moved into Godwin's law, sort of)
Well put Tiger. There's an awful lot of NIMBYs on here, sadly, with fully functioning blinkers. 🙁
It spoils yours. It doesn't spoil most peoples'
are you sure? who is being blinkered here?
from the peak park document that explains their policy on off roading - of course they might have just rung a couple of blinkered NIMBYS and used that as a basis for opinion
The noise intrusion affects other users’ enjoyment of the National Park. The physical impact of the vehicles can damage wildlife, habitats and valued cultural heritage features. Motorbikes however often have equal rights of access and the challenge is to accommodate legal use without damaging the special qualities of the National Park, or other people’s enjoyment of of the special qualities
personally i think the MTB's next argument is only valid if those that ride MTB choose to align with offroaders - need to align with walkers as the non motorised users who enjoy the peace and quiet of the countryside and look for obtaining equal rights under CROW
with the non - motorised being the decider - I'm sure plenty of landowners that have land open under CROW would say allow MTB's then what will we get next
Tiger, that was perfect! A great end to the thread in my opinion.
Austen, cheers for the recommendation, I will definitely take a look at those cheaper, quieter options
The noise intrusion affects other users’ enjoyment of the National Park. The physical impact of the vehicles can damage wildlife, habitats and valued cultural heritage features. Motorbikes however often have equal rights of access and the challenge is to accommodate legal use without damaging the special qualities of the National Park, or other people’s enjoyment of of the special qualities
And what came first? The green lane or the national park?
🙄
Those Jets that fly over when I'm cycling around Wales are quite noisey aswell
Ban Them!!!!!
Can't wait for future versions of the electric KTM's. Powered access to the countryside without the noise that everyone seems to hate so much = happiness for all (most?).
Some people are never happy.
If you are concerned about the noise stick to a 2-stroke, the noise is higher pitched and doesn't travel nearly as far. Don't believe me? Speak to any MX track owner about noise...
BTW the bikes out there riding the green lanes are enduro/trail bikes not motoX bikes.
Where will these new fangled electric mountain bikes sit in all this?
Are they okay?
I am not allowed to join in this argument - I did once, on a different forum, and I was called all sorts of names because I happened to express an opinion that didn't fit with the opinion of certain others.
Apparently it's okay to climb on 'banned' crags or ride your bike on a 'cheeky' footpaths but it isn't okay to ride a road legal motorbike responsibly on a legal right of way (or god forbid join a group who help maintain/repair trails).
This argument brings out the worst in people who do not see that there are bad apples in every outdoor pursuit, people who break the rules,are inconsiderate to others, mess it up for everyone else - people who always take and never give anything back. What about live and let live eh? What about trying to educate the minority?
PS: my friend is a screamer - when she's riding her mtb down something scary she does tend to scream a bit. Should she be hung drawn and quartered for spoiling peoples right to quiet enjoyment of the outdoors? (I have found in fact that most walkers just laugh at her and then say 'well at least we could hear her' as I pass by afterwards, shaking my head...)
PPS: the opinions expressed here are those of the author and no one else.
Can't wait for future versions of the electric KTM's. Powered access to the countryside without the noise
unfortunately think that more powered bikes albeit quite electric ones will re enforce the position of anti mountain biking walkers and landowners
What about live and let live eh? What about trying to educate the minority?
this live and let live thing sure has me confused - aren't these opposite arguments?
Just buy your trail bike and get on with it while this lot debate the issue. I recomend and have a drz400. You can't please everyone so sod 'em. Keep it quiet and legal and have fun.
Back OT, I'd go with a '96 on Honda XR250R, leccy start kit if you must. Lightweight (unlike the DR350, very important when you just binned it in the sticky UK mud), super reliable, no fuss 4-stroke.
Mind you, I can't leave without mentioning that it beggars belief that a pastime that often suffers due to the intolerance of others, could have supporters who stoop to the same low levels of narrow minded intolerance themselves. Incomprehensible.
There's a shed load of countryside out there, I've ridden for whole days and seen nobody
You're lucky. Not everyone has access to that.
Personally I don't care what other people as long as it doesn't bugger the trails for everyone else. I suspect that's the real problem people have. As for 'riding around' it, that's just not always possible. Sometimes it's thick undergrowth all around except for a narrow trail that's been trashed.
So many straw men on here it's ridiculous. It's like you WANT to have an argument, so you choose the most extreme interpretation of everyone's arguments.
If you're thinking of buying a new 2 stroke (as mentioned above much more pleasing to other users ears despite equal decibel levels) take a look at [url= http://www.tmukonline.net/Page/101/tm-250-en.html ]TM[/url]. They do a couple test days where you can try before you buy and watch some of their pros show you how it should be done. Plus with the price hike of Japanese bikes, and the fact most of them no longer make two strokes, TM's are no longer more expensive and the come with a bundle of goodies stock.
Iain
my god there is some whinging twits on here. I see the fun police are out in force.
back to the original question...
KTM ftw
You're lucky. Not everyone has access to that.Personally I don't care what other people as long as it doesn't bugger the trails for everyone else. I suspect that's the real problem people have. As for 'riding around' it, that's just not always possible. Sometimes it's thick undergrowth all around except for a narrow trail that's been trashed.
So many straw men on here it's ridiculous. It's like you WANT to have an argument, so you choose the most extreme interpretation of everyone's arguments.
What's stopping you getting at it? No trains, no time? You live in Wales FFS bit short of countryside is it?
I'm not out for an argument at all, just a realistic view on use of our open spaces.
Green lanes are very few and far between and should be very easy to avoid if you don't like the motorised vehicles that use them.
I'm just not out for a witch hunt, ban them 'cos they are different and spoil my enjoyment and all that. I just think they are pretty retricted as it is so you should be able to avoid 'em.
It's a bit like saying.
"Well I tried to cycle across a ploughed field and it was all muddy and rutted up and there was a tractor making noise, ban farmers! ban tractors!"
What's stopping you getting at it? No trains, no time?
Well if you live in London, you've got a good few hours drive to get to these places you can ride all day and not see anyone.
What do you mean specifically by green lanes anyway? There are old roads near me that see motorbikes and get churned up in the process - but I dunno if they qualify for green lane status.
Wot DezB says.
I shall refrain from having a rantette.
Personally I don't care what other people as long as it doesn't bugger the trails for everyone else. I suspect that's the real problem people have. As for 'riding around' it, that's just not always possible. Sometimes it's thick undergrowth all around except for a narrow trail that's been trashed.
+1
So it is said again - ride on bridleways and avoid the very few green lanes that remain then. It really is that simple.
Stick to the point1 2 pages of junk. anyway.
Get a 4 stroke unless you want to prat about with oils. get something quiet if you are in an official capacity. Don't go too big. 525 KTMs are really penis substitutes for many. Mostly ex road riders who soon swap for something smaller. Seriously look at CRF230's. Mine did 80mph trail riding. Maybe the DRZ but a CCM 404 is the same engine with much better handling et. Consider that South Wales has a rep for theived kit. Just check the bikes history. (sorry to sound judgemental but thats where lots of bikes round here (FoD)end up. An enduro bike will have better suspension and more power but to ou need that. They will be fussier and more exspensive to run. How tall are you? Short arses need Alps or 230's. don't buy any small CCm except the 230. They are complete shite and this come from some one who has sold them and loves his CCM's Get a 604 if you want a monster. Get a Gasgas Pampera if you want the best hill climber ever but be prepared to fettle it. Where are you? If you are near the border come along to our m/c club meeting. 1st and 3rd Monday. Look at www,wgdfmcc.org.uk for details. matt, club sec.
here is a guy doing a spot of super slow green lanin' for you all...
[url=
I swear by my husky. Awesome bikes, they are all you want for a green laner. The 250 2ts have some beans and the 4ts are very nice to ride. They have decent spec and parts aren't as bad to get hold of as people make out. Husky sport are the importers and are really great guys.