Apparently, in the 17th century, they used to stuff their Guys with live kittens so there would be realistic screams when burnt.
Imagine the uproar if the BBC tried to show that on TV.
better with baby robins, more authentic cries you see.
My kids love fires and stuff being burnt,
HA! Arsonists in the making, was it them that set fire to that tree in the 'tree burning' thread? Was it, WAS IT?
Anyway, Guy Forks was the only bloke to ever go near parliament with honourable intentions.
honourable intentions
Pretty sure it’s ’honest’...
Anyway, Guy Forks was the only bloke to ever go near parliament with honourable intentions.
a huge number go there with honourable intentions, many like Fawkes fail with their intent. In reality he was the fall guy for the plot and yet another victim of religion and politics getting mixed up.
Anyway, Guy Forks was the only bloke to ever go near parliament with honourable intentions.
Is that a spoonerism?
My Poppy rant was top of the page
I'll post on it to try and bring it back 😀
Well, he was, but he was dead, which wasn't really the point of the punishment.
He was quartered and the parts placed around the UK which is was a warning to others, that’s the point of being quartered and why they still proceeded with it. Apart from that the fact being he was quartered of course.
Being disemboweled and chopped into quarters while still alive is a bit different to when your are dead. They didn't hang you till dead, just strangled you for a while, then on to phase 2 & 3.
Thanks for that insight Neil I’d have thought it would much less painful if you were alive. Live and learn ay.
ransos - MemberNelson Mandela was imprisoned for his 'deeds'.
That's because he was a terrorist. Margaret Thatcher said so.
Posted 40 minutes ago # Report-Post
Aye, put that along side her government's dealings with Pinochet as a legitimate leader of a nation and you begin to see 'problematic' inconsistencies. It's almost like self-interest and ideology often trump what is right..........
Another side to the quartering was then the person could not be laid to rest in accordance with their faith, resulting in damnation of the soul, eternity of purgatory, etc.
I hope there was a 14 day cooling off period between deciding to burn and actually burning him? What would happen if he wanted to change jobs?
Also true Neil witch was another reason they still went ahead, although I’m not sure of that stands for catholics?
I really don't think that the majority of people are celebrating the death of a Roman Catholic when they think of burning the Guy - more about celebrating the death of a traitor.
Not sure the Catholic Church needs or deserves any protection from offence after the number of people they've put to death over the centuries. There cannot be many or any other institution with more blood on their hands.
He was [s]hung[/s] [b]hanged[/b], drawn and quartered.
Meat is hung, people are hanged.
What do I win?
What do I win?
A pendant.
Is that a spoonerism?
No.
'You have hissed all my mystery lessons & tasted half the worm'.
That is. 😆
Some right pedants in today!
hang on a sec, shouldn't it be hung drawn and 'fifths' 2 arms, 2 legs.. and the head, torso? what gives? id Google it but I'm on lunch and don't want to be fired.
Well if we’re being pendantic Guy Fawkes was drawn before he was hanged as it does not just mean having you bowels cut out.
hang on a sec, shouldn't it be hung drawn and 'fifths' 2 arms, 2 legs.. and the head, torso? what gives? id Google it but I'm on lunch and don't want to be fired.
They were cut in 4 in various ways.
we could go back to burning effigies of Thatcher, like what we used to up North back in the day
yet another victim of religion and politics getting mixed up
To be fair, in the seventeenth century there wasn't much difference between the two.
Yeah, but no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition.Not sure the Catholic Church needs or deserves any protection from offence after the number of people they've put to death over the centuries. There cannot be many or any other institution with more blood on their hands.
I may have this wrong but I always thought Guy Fawkes was a foreign mercenary brought in for his knowledge of gunpowder, not because of his religious beliefs, and wasn't actually one of the main movers in the plot. Just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
They were cut in 4 in various ways.
Im not having it. I will report back in the morning with the aid of my child's doll and possibly annotated photographs. Stand by.
I notice all this hanged drawn and quartered bit has been watered down a so as not to offend modern sensibilities.
They always miss out the bit where your gentleman's package is sliced off and burnt before your eyes.
They wouldn't show that on the BBC either.
I may have this wrong but I always thought Guy Fawkes was a foreign mercenary
He was from the foreign lands of Yorkshire, lived on Spain for a bit though.
I may have this wrong but I always thought Guy Fawkes was a foreign mercenary brought in for his knowledge of gunpowder, not because of his religious beliefs, and wasn't actually one of the main movers in the plot.
Yup. He was British but had been a soldier abroad most of his life. He was a bit player in the plot and was specifically chosen to be on site to light the fuse because he was an outsider and wouldn't be recognized. Catesby would have been instantly recognized.
Or that's what current Historians say. No doubt a completely different revision will come out and they'll all sell a load of books claiming Fawkes was a key player who had lived in in London all his life. That's how Historians make a living. 😀
Cheers for that. Don't know why but I was sure he was Dutch.
They always miss out the bit where your gentleman's package is sliced off and burnt before your eyes.They wouldn't show that on the BBC either.
it would fill the GBBO void. Just saying. "Great British Boll*ck Off"
...it writes itself, I for one think its got legs. Unlike GF. Get Nick Knowles on the line will you?
Don't know why but I was sure he was Dutch.
His fancy hat?
Ah! That’s why you don’t know why he was trying to kill the king then, so he could restore a catholic monarch to allowing catholicism to be preached again.
Perhaps. But the point stands that he wasn't killed for his faith but for his deeds. Unless you are going to tell me that the Government at the time went around chopping up and burning thousands of Catholics just for being Catholic?
Didn't they all have fancy hats? Fawkes from York, sold his estate and left to fight for Spain against the Dutch, and adopted the name Guido while there.
He was executed for treason and heresy, no bigger crimes at the time. Although many also received the same punishment just for being Catholic.
Unless you are going to tell me that the Government at the time went around chopping up and burning thousands of Catholics just for being Catholic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_Kingdom
I for one think its got legs. Unlike GF.
😆 😆
johndoh - MemberAh! That’s why you don’t know why he was trying to kill the king then, so he could restore a catholic monarch to allowing catholicism to be preached again.
Perhaps. But the point stands that he wasn't killed for his faith but for his deeds. Unless you are going to tell me that the Government at the time went around chopping up and burning thousands of Catholics just for being Catholic?
Posted 9 minutes ago #
Either brilliant at trolling or very poor at history - I can't make my mind up on this one - so either a tip of the hat to you sir, or a D- for History.
he was an infamous traitor.
He tried to blow up the houses of paedos aka parliament didn't he? I want to know why he isn't heralded as a hero
Either brilliant at trolling or very poor at history - I can't make my mind up on this one - so either a tip of the hat to you sir, or a D- for History.
That'll be the latter.
Perhaps. But the point stands that he wasn't killed for his faith but for his deeds. Unless you are going to tell me that the Government at the time went around chopping up and burning thousands of Catholics just for being Catho
Being Catholic was also seen as treason. The rest I’m sure you do know about, my history is crap but even I know that Catholics had a bit of rough time during the reform.
Turns out the historians have found some CCTV footage from 'back int day' and you can watch what really append:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/group/p05j1bc9
Show your kid that they'll be reet back up to speed on who that bloke sat on the bonfire was
Being Catholic was also seen as treason. The rest I’m sure you do know about, my history is crap but even I know that Catholics had a bit of rough time during the reform.
Fair enough, I hold my hands up, clearly my knowledge of history of the day is dreadful. I blame it on missing that episode of Horrible Histories.
#everydayisaschoolday
Fair enough, I hold my hands up, clearly my knowledge of history of the day is dreadful. I blame it on missing that episode of Horrible Histories.
I went to a COE school as my primary school so some teachers took almost glee in telling us what happened to Guy Fawkes and what a bad man he was.
Being Catholic was also seen as treason. The rest I’m sure you do know about, my history is crap but even I know that Catholics had a bit of rough time during the reform.
Both Catholics and Protestants had a rough time during the reformation, depending on which monarch was in charge. But even then, the government didn't go around burning thousands of people just for being catholic or Protestant.
Buy the time of the Gunpowder plot the reformation was long over and England was firmly Protestant. Catholics were persecuted and occasionally executed (mainly the priests) but in the main the persecution was at the level of debarring them from certain offices etc. And this persecution was more due to the failure to observe the beliefs of the Church of England rather than being catholic per se.
It was the removal of this persecution that in part cause the Glorious revolution in 1688.
The thing about the 17th century was that for most of the time people were shit scared of the Pope and his Jesuits minions over throwing the British Monarchy and imposing the Catholic religion. (Think like the Dail Mail and the Muslim menace hiding behind the Burkha, only worse). The Gunpowder plot was just one of these supposed Popish attempts to overthrow the monarchy.
So when Catholics were executed, it was because of a perceived link with this effort to overthrow the monarchy and hence treason, rather than being Catholic. (but it really does get difficult to separate religion from politics).
Most Stuart Monarchs were rather partial to Catholic beliefs anyway. - Divine right of Kings and all that.
Anyway, academics have written vast tomes on this and nobody has yet come up with a definite answer, so I may be wrong.
Well that’s made it much clearer cheers, I knew it wasn’t thousands but there were many.
Arsonists in the making
Who isn't? We all enjoy a good fire, the sparkly sh*t on bonfire night just makes it more fun. I reckon it's a genetic memory or something from when we were cavemen. If it wasn't Guy Fawkes there'd be some other daft reason for setting fire to things. An annual mock torture and hanging of an effigy wouldn't be nearly as much fun.
(this thread is all over the place BTW)
genetic memory or something
(this thread is all over the place BTW)
So is your understanding of genetics, so you're well at home here, then.
This is why irony is one of my favourite things.
So is your understanding of genetics
I'm not sure this thread can take a tangent into genetic theory, but entertaining your response for a second, are you saying that all behaviour is learnt, rather than inherited?
