[Closed] Ramadan Fasting

Have a cheeky doughnut while no-one's looking ?

On a hot day, if someone really annoyed you, I doubt you'd be able to summon up the required volume of liquid to give their moccasins more than a light sprinkle

there was a Muslim officer on one of those police progs a while back who had to give up on a foot chase because it was Ramadan and he had no energy to keep running.

As a west London boy; an area with huge Asian/Muslim content I can assure you that there's a big difference as to what the spell book says and what's actually done.

For members of the Muslim community who may be fasting during the holy month of Ramadan, it’s important to balance food and fluid intake between fasts and especially to drink enough water. During hot weather, dehydration is a common and serious risk.

Dr Lise Llewellyn, strategic director of public health, said: “Please drink lots of water or other fluids in this hot weather. Also make sure to check on others in your community who may be at greater risk.

"If you are fasting and you start to feel unwell, disoriented or confused, or collapse or faint, you should stop fasting and have a drink of water or other fluid. This is especially important for older adults, those with poorly controlled medical conditions such as low/high blood pressure, diabetes and those who are receiving dialysis treatment. The Muslim Council of Britain has confirmed that breaking fast in such conditions is allowable under Islamic law.”

from my local council website 🙂

I thought it said "ramadan fisting". Wondered if I was missing something...

I seed a Catholic eatin' a sausage on a Friday once.

I met a Bangladeshi man in St Ives who was worried about the effects of Ramadan fasting on the NHS.

I think it depends massively where you are. I worked in Morocco for a few months some years ago & not one of my Moroccan colleagues would even dream of breaking the fast before time.

tbh if it was me I'd struggle to get to work in the morning, what with being awake from 10-3 each night, scoffing anything within arms length.

Not a religionist, but fair play to those that manage it.

Why don't they do it in the winter? Muslim at the north pole is currently well and truly ****ed.

ivornardon2 - Member
As a west London boy; an area with huge Asian/Muslim content I can assure you that there's a big difference as to what the spell book says and what's actually done.

You mean not every muslim is devout and that not every asian is a muslim? 😯

@zippykona
They do do it in Winter. Ramadan is determined on a lunar basis, so it shifts throughout the year.

Lifer. Its shocking innit? I've known one or two of those Islamic types who.... and you best brace yourself for this .... are partial to the odd beer too. 😯

*faints*

I've always wondered what a muslim living up by the Arctic circle would do when Ramadan is in June/July, apart from migrate south!

I met a Bangladeshi man in St Ives who was worried about the effects of Ramadan fasting on the NHS.

Chuckles at Dave 😉

binners - no! that's not right. Everyone knows they are all jihad nutcases with a fondness for exploding backpacks!

They also all look the same as well

some of the above is trolling

You mean not every muslim is devout and that not every asian is a muslim?

Its shocking innit? I've known one or two of those Islamic types who.... and you best brace yourself for this .... are partial to the odd beer too.

This news has just hit the offices of the daily fail....

[img] [/img]

In other news, I skipped breakfast this morning and now I'm ravenous, guess I'm not cut out for this religion lark 🙁

They're all it it though. Bloody hypocrites! Look!! Just look at this!!!

[img] [/img]

A Jewish bloke and his accomplices making off with a job lot of sausage rolls!

Almighty Allah has promised great reward for those who fast, whilst severe punishment is in store for those who do NOT fast.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8200000/8200019.stm

I have also known muslims who smoke tabs and drink beer. I wonder what punishment they're in for? being a muslim seems punishment enough.

Dunno that it answers any of your specific questions OP, but the below was circulated round our place and provides what I thought was some interesting general stuff about ramadan and fasting, and impacts in the workplace:

Ramadan for non-Muslims
In the next few weeks, you may come into work and find your co-worker taking a power nap at 9:30am. At break time, you’ll notice she is missing in the discussion about Harry Potter over at the water cooler. At the staff meeting, you will be shocked when she is offered coffee and cookies and refuses ! By lunch time, your concern about her missing at the water cooler compels you to investigate the situation.

Then you remember what she had mentioned last week over a delicious Sushi lunch. Flooded with relief, you go up to her desk, and proclaim with much gusto, “Ramadan Mubarak (Moo-baa-rak)!” Ramadan’s Blessings to you!

The month of Ramadan is a happy occasion; it is the month that the Muslim holy book, the Koran, was revealed to our Prophet Muhammad. Muslims are called by their religion to celebrate the month by coming together in worship, fasting each day for thirty days from dawn until sunset.

While this may seem like a tremendous feat, consider this: Fasting while working is an even greater endeavor. Make it a little easier on your Muslim colleague by following a couple of simple rules:

The Greeting

The next time you find yourself in line for the copier with your Muslim colleague, feel free to wish him or her “Ramadan Mubarak” or “Ramadan Kareem” or simply “Happy Ramadan.” We absolutely love it when people acknowledge Ramadan and are happy about it.

Positive Reinforcement

Keep in mind that we’re fasting voluntarily and, actually, pretty joyously (despite the tired, sad look on our face). We’re not forced to fast. In fact, we wait for this month the whole year, so you don’t have to feel sorry for us. We are not trying to be rescued (other than by that ticking clock taking us closer to sunset!).

The Lunch Meeting

Most of us understand that life goes on, and so do lunch meetings, and if we are participating in them while fasting, don’t worry about eating in front of us. This is just part of the test. We appreciate your acknowledging our fast, but don’t feel the need to discuss it every time you show up in our line of sight holding food.

Just try not to eat smelly foods. . . and please ignore our stomach when it growls at your sandwich.

No Water

It’s true — we can’t drink water either. Again, this is part of the Ramadan test and our exercise of spiritual discipline. This is probably why you may not find your friend at the water cooler. Try switching the break time conversation to another location in the office. You should probably also let them skip their turn for the coffee run this time.

Halitosis

While God may tell us that the breath of the one fasting is like “fragrant musk” to Him, we know that you might not experience the same. Understand why we’re standing a good foot away from you when speaking or simply using sign language to communicate.

Iftar Dinner

Consider holding a Ramadan Iftar dinner . Iftar is the Arabic word for the meal served at sunset when we break the fast (it’s literally our ‘breakfast’). This will be a nice gesture for Muslim co-workers and will give others the opportunity to learn about and partake in Ramadan festivities. Although there is no specific type of meal designated for iftars, it is tradition to break the fast with a sweet and refreshing date before moving to a full-on dinner

Fasting is not an excuse

Although energy levels might be low, the point of fasting is not to slack off from our other duties and responsibilities. We believe that we are rewarded for continuing to work and produce during our fasts. Fasting is not a reason to push meetings, clear schedules, or take a lighter load on projects.

That said – we don’t mind if you help work in a nap time for us!

Ramadan is a time for community and charity. There are iftar dinners held at mosques every night (you are welcome to join the fun – even if you’re not fasting!) and night time prayer vigils throughout the month. We give charity in abundance and make an extra effort to partake in community service. Throughout it all, we maintain an ambiance of joy and gratitude for all that God has blessed us with, and reflect on those in this world who have been given much less. This is a time for all of us–not just Muslims–to renew our spiritual intentions, increase our knowledge, and change ourselves for the better.

I've not really read this thread just the title but as it contains religious content I'm going to declare you all dail mail reading bigots and leave in a huff saying I'm offended at the racism.

@zippykona
They do do it in Winter. Ramadan is determined on a lunar basis, so it shifts throughout the year.

Not sure if some joke is going over my head here, but that's nonsense. It's ramadan now, including in the arctic circle. Depending on how you interpret things, you can argue to fast following Mecca time, nearest "muslim country" time, or just go for a hardcore 23 hours fasting if you're up really north in Kiruna, Tromsø or wherever. Even 18 or 19 hours fasting in the UK must be pretty harsh, I don't think I could cope with that.

bajsyckel are you having a go at a religion for not being logical?

I was on a Neilson windsurf holiday in Turkey in Jul/Aug and one of the advanced instructors was a Muslim.

He practised fasting to the extent he wouldn't even swallow his own spit (not that he could summon much) , was on the water most of the day, and it didn't seem to slow him down much.

It's perfectly possible to function normally and observe the fast tbh- it mostly sounds daft because we're so used to food and drink on hand but humans are rigged for long days and gaps between food and drink. Not everyone can do it easily, mind some folks adapt better than others... My colleague in the office takes it as a holiday just because she knows it affects her work (and turns her into a horrible maniac) but then she is a constant all-day snacker fueled entirely by caffeine.

ocrider - Member

I've always wondered what a muslim living up by the Arctic circle would do when Ramadan is in June/July, apart from migrate south!

Answer from one of our arctic project chaps- it's not really covered in the book or hadith for obvious reasons, and there's all manner of conflicting advice so he just applied logic and observes a Mecca day cycle. I think he's ready to argue the point with the almighty if need be, possibly with powerpoint presentations.

Young chap at our place is devout and does the fast thing properly. He loses shed loads of weight and gets a bit tired towards the end. Have asked him loads of the daft questions and found his answers very interesting (similar to above), he has my respect given his take on Ramadan. Made me consider that a little fasting and personal introspection would not be to bad a thing, having said that I'm a coward.

the op could come and work a shift with me if he thinks that nhs types can't make it thru a 12hr shift and more without eating or drinking and don't do so on a regular basis.

I've gone along with the Ramadan thing a couple of times - either geography or solidarity with mates - and I've it both interesting and not at all burdensome. plus, as the token non-muslim I got extra special end of day food in all cases.

bajsyckel - Member

@zippykona
They do do it in Winter. Ramadan is determined on a lunar basis, so it shifts throughout the year.

Not sure if some joke is going over my head here, but that's nonsense. It's ramadan now, including in the arctic circle. Depending on how you interpret things, you can argue to fast following Mecca time, nearest "muslim country" time, or just go for a hardcore 23 hours fasting if you're up really north in Kiruna, Tromsø or wherever. Even 18 or 19 hours fasting in the UK must be pretty harsh, I don't think I could cope with that.

I wasn't responding to the 'Ramadan in the Arctic Circle' comment; I was responding to the 'Ramadan in winter' comment. What I said stands. As far as the Arctic goes, I have no idea.

bajsyckel are you having a go at a religion for not being logical?

Edit- OK, Saxon Rider, sorry for misinterpreting. As you say it shifts each year. So this year is pretty tough for muslims in the north. Conversely, I suppose you could argue that years in which ramadan falls from Nov-Jan they can get away with having a slightly early/late lunch.

Answer from one of our arctic project chaps- it's not really covered in the book or hadith for obvious reasons, and there's all manner of conflicting advice so he just applied logic and observes a Mecca day cycle.

I did wonder if the common sense solution would be applied by anyone, which begs the question why all of the muslim world outside of the tropics don't do this?

Seems crazy to me. Why not do it at night? Crack half of it out during sleep. Be much easier...

I've gone along with the Ramadan thing a couple of times - either geography or solidarity with mates -

One thing that experience has taught me is that if you're out in the Middle East during Ramadan, the half hour or so before sunset is *not* a nice time to go out for a drive

Seems crazy to me. Why not do it at night? Crack half of it out during sleep. Be much easier

I think that would defeat the object somewhat - the whole point is that it isn't easy...

which begs the question why all of the muslim world outside of the tropics don't do this?

Coming from Muslamic world I can assure you that life carry on as normal because that is their faith. Most of the time we/I simply eat in front of them even when they are fasting because I need to eat. However, that does not mean I do not respect what they do except that I would apologise before I eat out of respect for my friends (close friends by the way).

However, having said that when I was younger that is a different story as I would dangle and to tempt my mates with food (I can assure you that we would try our best to trick them) in front of their face. Yes, like pretending to describe how the food tastes to other mates. Then we would "accidentally" ask them to try if the food is alright by tasting ... Those are the scenarios amongst the boys ...

For older generations we simply avoid eating in front of them out of respect, as my parents would tell us off for not respecting older generation. But my father's mates usually don't mind if we eat in front of them. Well, it's a matter of testing their will power ... 😆

Not all people should fast ... such as kids (until 15 year old but depending), people with medical condition and very old people who needs to eat to survive. As for others they should starve ... or fast.

In the UK you are just being PC and you are not even in Muslamic world ... 🙄 Only in UK they make a big deal out of nothing ...

p/s: Muslamic calender is I think 350 days or something like that so sometimes Ramada is in Winter ...

I think that would defeat the object somewhat - the whole point is that it isn't easy...

Ah, I forgot the smileys. Schoolboy error.

*takes a deep breath* Ummmm... *exhales* Nah.

This year it coincides with the 24 hour daylight in far northern Sweden. There has been much debate about what dawn to dusk means in this setting - use dawn and dusk times for mecca?, move further south? The advice from the devout is apparently "stick to the rules - no sunset, no food." (I may be paraphrasing)
Amazing to think that an originally low latitude, desert superstition from the late dark ages has rules not readily applicable across a modern world...

Cf loans, status of women, genital mutilation of infants, ritual slaughter, etc

the below was circulated round our place

Muslim at the north pole is currently well and truly ****.

From twitter

Wyre Davies ?@WyreDavies 16h

#Cardiff market fruit seller; "Try before you buy!" .. Asian customer; "You're only saying that because it's Ramadan!" #cardiffbanter

There is a mosque in Inuvik perhaps you could email them as I'd guess it it the northerly most Mosque in the world. Interesting story, I've been to the arctic circle with a friend who was muslim. Sadly it wasn't Ramadan so I can't give you a definitive answer on the subject. He did however get free board and lodging at said mosque while we camped which is why I know it is there.

However, with the prayer bit they are supposed to pray at dawn and dusk amongst other times. Now my friend, to my annoyance followed this (religiously) letting plagues of mosquitos into the tent when I was asleep. He later found out that it was common practice in the arctic to synchronise yourself with a nearby metropolitan area with a more suitable timing. I think in this case it was Edmonton.

I guess that this would be the case for Ramadam as well. I should really meet up with him next time I'm in London...

Eskimos

The racism in this thread goes from bad to worse. 😉 I think the more PC term is Inuit...

50% useful, 50% presumptive twaddle.

Americanisms such as "water cooler breaks" apart, it is pretty close to various discussions I have had with Muslim colleagues.

neil the wheel - Member

A throwaway joke that actually strikes right at the heart of religion.
You see, it proves that such texts are not the word of God, but the inventions of men who knew nothing of North Poles, equinoxes etc.

Not in the slightest. As I wrote up the page; God is allseeing, his prophets are but men. Taking minutes and data entry are no fun at all, hard enough if He keeps to the job in hand but if He stops and says "Oh, take a note Mohammed, this won't make any sense to you but believe it or not, in 2000 years people will be living at the top of the world where it never gets dark! Mad eh? Anyway, this is what [i]they[/i] should do in Ramadan...", then you're never going to get anything done.

wwaswas - Member
there was a Muslim officer on one of those police progs a while back who had to give up on a foot chase because it was Ramadan and he had no energy to keep running.

POSTED 3 HOURS AGO #

There was another officer too, who had to give up on a foot chase 'cos he was so bloated from his midday bag of doughnuts.

50% useful, 50% presumptive twaddle.

Mark et al: I think we've inadvertently found a great strapline for the forum...

edlong - Member

[s]50[/s] 10% useful, [s]50[/s] 90% presumptive twaddle.

Mark et al: I think we've inadvertently found a great strapline for the forum...

FTFY

Yeah, I thought the ratio might get reviewed....

Northwind: As I wrote up the page; God is allseeing

Bit like a creepy cosmic voyeur.

Do think about that next time you're on the toilet or knocking out a quick one, won't you?

Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic calendar; Muslims worldwide observe this as a month of fasting. This annual observance is regarded as one of the Five Pillars of Islam. The month lasts 29–30 days based on the visual sightings of the crescent moon. Fasting is obligatory for adult Muslims, except those who are ill, travelling, pregnant, diabetic or going through menstrual bleeding.

While fasting from dawn until sunset, Muslims refrain from consuming food, drinking liquids, smoking, and engaging in sexual relations; in some interpretations they also refrain from swearing.

Ramadan is a time of spiritual reflection, improvement and increased devotion and worship. Muslims are expected to put more effort into following the teachings of Islam. The fast (sawm) begins at dawn and ends at sunset. In addition to abstaining from eating and drinking, Muslims also increase restraint, such as abstaining from sexual relations and generally sinful speech and behaviour.

The act of fasting is to redirect the heart away from worldly activities, its purpose being to cleanse the soul by freeing it from harmful impurities. Ramadan also teaches Muslims how to better practice self-discipline, self-control, sacrifice, and empathy for those who are less fortunate; thus encouraging actions of generosity and compulsory charity.

It becomes compulsory for Muslims to start fasting when they reach puberty, so long as they are healthy, sane and have no disabilities or illnesses. Many children endeavour to complete as many fasts as possible as practice for later life.

Exemptions to fasting are travel, menstruation, severe illness, pregnancy, and breast-feeding. However, many Muslims with medical conditions insist on fasting to satisfy their spiritual needs, although it’s not recommended by the hadith. Those who are unable to fast still must make up the days missed later.

Charity is very important in Islam, and even more so during Ramadan. Zak?t, often translated as "the poor-rate", is obligatory as one of the pillars of Islam; a fixed percentage is required to be given to the poor of the person's savings. Sadaqah is voluntary charity in given above and beyond what is required from the obligation of Zak?t. In Islam all good deeds are more handsomely rewarded in Ramadan than in any other month of the year. Consequently, many will choose this time to give a larger portion, if not all, of the Zak?t for which they are obligated to give. In addition, many will also use this time to give a larger portion of Sadaqah in order to maximize the reward that will await them at the Last Judgment.

In many Muslim countries, it is a common sight to see people giving more food to the poor and the homeless, and even to see large public areas for the poor to come and break their fast.

I’m a Muslim and am fasting….does it affect my day to day routine in the workplace?
No, I still manage to function as normal...
Does it stop me from doing the things I would normally do outside of work like ride the bike etc?
No, I’m still getting the miles in where I can...I just go a bit slower and don’t take the camelbak with me...
Do I get offended if people eat/drink in front of me?
No, just because I can’t eat does not mean they should not…

Of course as the month progresses it becomes tougher physically and mentally but like many other Muslims, I’ve been conditioned from a young age to be able to do this…but what I tell myself is this…there are many people around the world for whom a typical day during Ramadan is an everyday occurrence…the hardship I suffer is nothing compared to what they go through…at least I have the benefit of a nice meal at the end of the day to look forward to…this is where the charity bit comes in as we are encouraged to do more for the less fortunate, the increased prayers during Ramadan also contribute towards this as we ask god for his forgiveness for any sins we have committed and for the suffering of the less fortunate are eased….this compassion is not just for other Muslims but for all people…you have to remember that Muslims are regarded as people of the book in the same way as Jews and Christians…we are taught to treat each human being as a fellow human and nothing less.

Obviously there are some tosspots in beards who distort and manipulate the teachings of the Quran so that it fits in with their own warped religious ideology….there are people who shame every religion…I mean just look at the priests who like to touch young boys for example…

Unfortunately there are some Muslims who do not observe the month of Ramadan or at least pretend to do so…there are also those who like to do things they’re not supposed to do…whatever they are doing wrong its not for any other Muslim to judge them by as they will have to answer for those actions once they’re in the grave…by no means am I a perfect Muslim…I’ve done some naughty things when I was younger but thankfully those days are behind me

I’ve never had a problem with explaining Ramadan to anyone who is curious about it and in order to maintain my spiritual state I will not allow myself to be dragged to the levels of the trolls on this thread…

Religion doesn't need any help to look shameful.

Many thanks Gonzy for a sensible reply.

Religions are an effective way of changing people's behaviour. Bad people use them to do bad things. Good people use them to do good. Sadly, the good don't always run them.

I’ve been conditioned from a young age

There you go.

easy on Mr woppit, he gave a full & mature reply, no need to berate him for his choice. Thanks for your reply gonzy, it must be tough not being able to drink all day, I think if it was me and I was not allowed to drink anything, once my mouth became parched my mind would fixate and I would cave in, how do you manage?

Exemptions to fasting are travel,

That may cover the North Pole thing eh?

Woppit - did you read Gonzy's post? How exactly is this shameful?

but what I tell myself is this…there are many people around the world for whom a typical day during Ramadan is an everyday occurrence…the hardship I suffer is nothing compared to what they go through

I will not allow myself to be dragged to the levels of the trolls on this thread…

Won't stop them trying though.

Woppit, rein it in for once, hey? You might not agree with religion - I don't either - but that doesn't mean we can't have an interesting discussion about it.

I’ve been conditioned from a young age
There you go.

maybe i should have been a bit clearer in this bit...the 5 pillars of islam consist of:

1. Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith
2. Salat: performing ritual prayers in the proper way five times each day
3. Zakat: paying an alms (or charity) tax to benefit the poor and the needy
4. Sawm: fasting during the month of Ramadan
5. Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca

the shahada is the first thing i heard when i was born, as every born muslim is read the call to prayer which contains the shahada...as a born muslim i am therefore gong to follow in the footsteps of my parents...you would do the same if your parents practiced their religious belief...
whilst growing up i was also taught how to perform the salat...i am a long way off from saying that i know and understand all aspects of this but one day i'll get there...
i never did the zakat thing as a child as i did not have an income, but i've always been encouraged to compensate for this with charitable acts...
the fasting bit was the bit i always wanted to do ever since i was in primary school...i saw my family do it every year and i wanted to have a go...my parents refused to let me fast but every now and then they would let me do a couple of hours on a weekend...as i got older they would extend the time...i was 10 when i kept my first fast, but i was about 12 when i started to fast regularly...this is where the conditioning comes into play...you start early and soon you get used to it
as for the Hajj...pilgrimage is something i will be looking to do with the wife and kids when they are old enough...

Religion doesn't need any help to look shameful.

Mate of mine answered some questions I had about musliming.

If you'e in the Arctic circle then for Ramadan you take the nearest Muslim area (like if you're near Norway a mosque there).

Apparently if you're in Mecca you pray pointing towards your own temple or group.

neither do you.....

Bit personal. I thought you were supposed to be getting all perfect and holy and that? I expect you'll just forgive me though.

As we're conversing (and whilst I'm "winding it in") - here's a couple of things that'll inform you as to why your piety is not universally welcome, without me going over the whole tedious thing yet again and besides, much more eloquently than I have time for:

From the late, great Hitch -

[img] [/img]

And a resource from your own neck of the woods, lest you think it's just nasty western atheists having a go:

http://ex-muslim.org.uk/

Enjoy, and have a happy ramadan. 8)

I think if it was me and I was not allowed to drink anything, once my mouth became parched my mind would fixate and I would cave in, how do you manage?

its not easy but with practice from an early age it becomes manageable...that's what i mean about the conditioning...kind of like the same way a karate expert conditions them self to be able to punch through bricks without breaking their hand...
food and water are banned and also any saliva that builds in the mouth cannot be swallowed...you also have to keep your mind pure so no bad thoughts or words should be used...
there are other variables that can make it more difficult...i'm a smoker so on the odd occasion i start to rattle...but this is part of the test that i have to overcome...

Bit personal

no it wasnt....i'm not the only one who noticed that your comments were verging on islamophobia...and they were in response to what i had written so i think i have a right to give you a mild telling off for what i saw as shameful behaviour from you....

I thought you were supposed to be getting all perfect and holy and that? I expect you'll just forgive me though.

i never said i was perfect nor am i 100% pious...nobody is...but i'm trying to get as close to that as i possibly can...and yes you're forgiven....

as for your link...i'll have a look at that either tonight or tomorrow...gotta leave the office now

I have the greatest respect for any Muslim who can fast properly through Ramadan - I know one of my colleagues will be very tetchy in a couple of weeks time!

I have no religion of my own, but I'm prepared to admire the efforts that some people put into theirs

Religions are an effective way of changing people's behaviour.

Of course, that's why we invented them.

gonzy, do you properly gorge yourself in the evenings?
I wouldn't go to bed. Just get some fried chickan and eat and eat and eat. It's beyond me, I'm rubbish if I have to skip breakfast!

Woppit, rein it in for once, hey?

Well he tried ...sort of ...he is certainly trying

lest you think it's just nasty western atheists having a go:

There is nothing wrong with your message but you present it in the style of a hate preacher for atheism.

Mr Woppit - Member

Bit like a creepy cosmic voyeur.

Do think about that next time you're on the toilet or knocking out a quick one, won't you?

I do! Gives it an extra thrill.

But also- why assume that everyone that is tolerant of, or knows anything about, religion must be religious?

i'm not the only one who noticed that your comments were verging on islamophobia...

Hang on, that's not the case either. To give Woppit his dues, he's not Islamaphobic; he treats all religions with equal contempt.

In a thread which is discussing, say, the relative merits of theism vs atheism, then his views are fair comment. On a thread like this where it's discussing how a particular aspect of a religion works in practice, irrespective of whether you agree with those views, wading in going 'your religion is shameful and not welcome' isn't particularly constructive. It doesn't progress the discussion, it derails it. Hence my polite request to knock it off. I can do that formally if you'd prefer? (-:

That's cougars way of saying "I've shown it to you, if you carry on; I'm putting it in"

On a flight during Ramadan last year I noticed a number of Muslims partaking of the usual fodder that airlines serve up. I thought this was a bit strange, queried it with a colleague and apparently there is dispensation from fasting when travelling. So if you're a Muslim observing Ramadan it seems as long as you're eating and drinking on your bike you're OK. However, he went on to stress that it was written at a time when travelling meant covering vast distances across deserts on the back of a Camel and not intended to apply to those traveling in 'relative' comfort of an aircraft, but it seems that some Muslims are happy to take this particular dispensation on face value.

contains the shahada...as a born muslim i am therefore gong to follow in the footsteps of my parents...you would do the same if your parents practiced their religious belief...

My parents are devout catholics, church every Sunday, confession, lent holy days. They are Eucharistic ministers, do the readings and are members of the st Vincent de Paul society.they sent my little sister to lourdes when she had leukemia. We don't often discuss religion any more as it seldom ends well. How we laughed when someone bought up the topic of gay marriage. Just because your parents follow a religion doesn't mean you should. What if they got the wrong one?

On my previous job I used to work with few muslims. I was curious what ramadan was all about. Did fast with them together. 2 years succesufully and 3rd year didnt complete and abandoned it at half. Went on all inclusive holidays so it didnt make sense to me. I still have translated quaran etc and find it purer than a bible but I ve been raised as christian orthodox so don't see any need for conversion as in principle its same thing.

Now for more practical things:

We had an incident tied to this...
Company had won 2 new contracts to operate bus routes.
Struggling driver has lost concetration and totalled his brand new bus (90k worth) into another brand new one (190k double decker). Luckily passengers and passers by werent hurt but it was a nasty one.

There are many muslim drivers to follow it this year, and it looks like weather will get even hotter. Unfortunately company cant and wont listen to good reasons and give holidays to people, maybe they will change their minds but i hope nothing serious will happen.

Or in this climate, they might ignore any future employment with said religous group.

This is purely from my experience in transport industry.

I did ask guys if -travellers rule- could exempt them from struggles, but they just laughed at me.

2 Muslims were arrsted last week for crashing a boat into the Thames Barrier. Apparently it was the start of Ramadam 😆

The forces have policies in place for any serving Muslims who want to take part in Ramadam.

I respect it but It affects our staff - the late nights, almost no sleep nicotine and caffeine withdrawal, sugar rush etc. one of them ended up in hospital last year. It also doesn't improve the driving out here either...

If they work in the NHS they'll be just like everyone else and not get time to eat.

I seed that binners eatin' a vegitable once.

I think it's probably about time God popped down and update the rules? They could get a twitter account, or send an email to everyone, easy. If they could add a bit about cheap bikes for everyone, that'd be great.

contains the shahada...as a born muslim i am therefore gong to follow in the footsteps of my parents...you would do the same if your parents practiced their religious belief...

I seed that molgrips thinking about eatin' some cheese on toast once.