Poor comparison is there a lot more dedicated atheism or humanist slots
I'm not convinced that's fair. Atheism is the absence of belief, as we've argued at length here previously; so b; extension the "atheist slot" on the radio is the other 99% of Radio 4's output which doesn't mention religion, n'est-ce pas?
...it must be possible to remain a committed atheist and nevertheless find regions sporadically useful,
Clutch those straws baby, clutch them!
I was going to say that I thought this was a bit weaselly; it essentially says "ok, we realise that we're not going to convince you about that messy 'god' thing, but can you do what we say and reinforce our organisation anyway please?" But then Crikey made what is perhaps a better point there.
Don't jump to conclusions IR, that is very close-minded. My view is much closer to de Botton's and I find much of value from different religions and secular notions - i do not believe in the exclusivity of either. Hence TFT, or isn't is called (more provocatively 😉 ) Prayer for the Day, is often worth listening to. Today's version proves this point exactly IMO.
To coin a dreadful Americanism, I was grateful for the heads-up or reminder to listen to the replay today.
Cougar, don't forget that those words come from an atheist! The subtitle of the book is "A non-believer's guide to the uses of religion."
Oh, and,
and be curious as to the possibilities of importing certain ideas and practices into the secular realm
... implies a theistic monopoly on 'certain ideas'. I'd love to know what these certain ideas are which are wholly exclusive to religion and ignored by atheists. The only ones I can think of offhand, we ignore for a reason.
But then I would appear to be a lot more open closed minded than much of STW, going by these threads!
Ooooohhhh...
Philosopher, my arse.
Touche!
One word of 'god' on stw then molgrips and teamhurtmore are on it like the religious police
Thought police, please.
Cougar, you can satisfy you "love to know" for £6.98 on Amazon!
And big leap from "CURIOUS to the POSSIBILITES.." to ideas of theist monopolies. Still I will leave you to choose whether to read what he says!
One word of 'god' on stw then molgrips and teamhurtmore are on it like the religious police
Thought police, please.
Lol 🙂
There is much of value in religions, largely because historically, religions have been the vehicle by which morality has been expressed and codified. Religions have also played an enormous part in creating and regulating the societies and cultures we live in.
But from those beginnings as a method of tribal identification and control, we now live in a different world, and should be able to view religion in a different way, recognising it as a social construct, recognising the way it has shaped our societies, and not accepting it without criticism.
Thought for The Day is an anachronism as long as it only accepts religious viewpoints, and the defence of such an anachronism is itself indefensible.
See? I can do this stuff as well as Alain (without reference to any "his last name is Bottom!" juvenility'...
Crickey, don't be silly, I am not a kid. Bottom was due to bloody auto-correct and edited Immediately when spotted and before your post.
Crickey, don't be silly, I am not a kid. Bottom was due to bloody auto-correct and edited when spotted. Thank you.
I didn't notice what you'd written... He always make me chuckle because of his faux seriousness and his name!
Cougar, don't forget that those words come from an atheist! The subtitle of the book is "A non-believer's guide to the uses of religion."
It doesn't really matter what the author believes, I could publish a book called "a Christian's guide to Islam" if I liked.
Nevertheless. Without reading the book I'm not really equipped to comment on its content, so I can only really respond to quotes as presented.
Cougar, you can satisfy you "love to know" for £6.98 on Amazon!
I guess when I said "love to know", I really meant "am vaguely curious." (-:
And big leap from "CURIOUS to the POSSIBILITES.." to ideas of theist monopolies.
You misunderstand. He's apparently "curious to the possibilities of importing certain ideas into the secular realm," he's not curious to the possibilities that there might be these "certain ideas" we don't already have, it's implied that this is already fact. (and it'd be a short book if page two was 'sorry, there aren't any. The end.')
That's what I was picking up on, that theism has exclusive claim to certain ideas. What would they be? Being nice to each other? Having a moral compass? Getting together as a community? If he has some blinding insight into what religion-exclusive ideas are missing from a secular existence, I'd [s]love[/s] be mildly interested in an example.
TFTD isn't telling you you should be a Christian though
Your right they have no interest in spreading their message that is why they are national radio telling you about their religion...good point well made
so I will await Norman and his two footed, studs up challenge soon!)
No offence but can you get consistent here you are sarcastic to me at the start of that post but when folk do it to you it is an ad hom or playing the man. Make your mind up please.
And compare that with the quantity of secular messages
What would be the point of a cookery programme mentioning religion - would it matter?
You cannot claim that everything that does not mention god is atheism Why would gardeners question Time mention god or no god in its programme? it is neither secular nor religion but a programme on gardening. You seem to think everything that says nothing about religion is promoting non belief or something. Its a non sequitor
"atheist slot" on the radio is the other 99% of Radio 4's output which doesn't mention religion, n'est-ce pas?
No for the reasons mentioned above or Say the film Die hard is suddenly an atheist film rather than an action movie. As it is set at Christmas perhaps it is religious 😉
Ah you get my point i assume.
I dont agree that everything that says nothing about religion at all is suddenly atheism.
What would be the point of a cookery programme mentioning religion - would it matter?
For crying out loud, not fish sandwiches again! Got any wine?
Say the film Die hard is suddenly an atheist film
Bad example. (-:
What would you say is an atheist film? Something that outwardly criticises religion? That actively mentions how all the characters don't believe in something? Is Dogma an atheist movie, perhaps? What about a movie that doesn't mention religion at all?
You seem to be confusing an absence of a belief in something with a belief in something else. Atheism doesn't necessarily imply militant Atheism. Either I'm misunderstanding your point or we might have to agree to disagree here.
TFTD isn't telling you you should be a Christian though.
It is often sanctimonious and condescending and there is a clear message that morality stems from religious adherence. To say this isnt the case is quite wrong.
Believers are better people, Anne Atkins said so!
Junkyard - lazarus
You cannot claim that everything that does not mention god is atheism
Very true, which is why I dont. BTW, apologies if comments were seen as sarcastic - not intended. If it was the intolerant bit, I do think that this was a genuinely interesting comment - totally straight there. If it was calm down, then that was just your previous post seemed slightly agitated!!
Crikey - fair enough re Bottom stuff! There are times when auto-correct is a pain (how many times does Grum get referred to as Grim on here?). I have only seen de Botton briefly on TV and read his book subsequently. Since it is currently on the shelf alongside Titch Nhat Han (comparing Buddhism and Christainity), Pope JPII (more restrictive), Dawkins, Russell, Nietsche and others, I have a habit of recoiling against accusations of being a religions policeman or of thrusting religions views down others.
You seem to be confusing an absence of a belief in something with a belief in something else.
No I agree with that point I dont believe in anything.
Everyone here seems to be saying if it does not mention god [ on radio 4]it is somehow atheist I am saying it is irrelevant and to claim that makes no sense - it is wrong and illogical. A recipe does not mention god but it is not atheist even if read out on Radio 4
the football report is not atheist because it did not mention god etc
Your right they have no interest in spreading their message that is why they are national radio telling you about their religion
We've done this before. Telling someone about something is not the same as trying to get them to agree with you.
If someone tells me about say Ramadan, I don't think they are trying to convert me to Islam. I'd be interested because it's part of the world in which I live.
surfer - Member
It is often sanctimonious and condescending and there is a clear message that morality stems from religious adherence. To say this [s]isnt the case is quite wrong.[/s] is having an opinion that should be respected and vice versa
Isnt that better?
All this talk of cookery programs suggests that it might be time for lunch. Bon Appetit!
johnhe - MemberI'm a born again Christian and even I absolutely detest thought for the day.
I am a [s]lapsed[/s] massively backslidden hands-aloft Pentecostal, and I love TFTD, especially the ones that are not Christian. You don't have to agree with the Hindu bloke that was on this morning, but surely it is interesting or heaven forbid helpful to have an angle on a contemporary issue that represents the beliefs and values of other non-atheist minorities of the world's population.
THM puts it much more succintly than me.I find much of value from different religions and secular notions
Not really sure if the Humanist or Atheist TFTD on for example, disbility discriminiation or the 'canonisation' of celebrities would differ very much at all from the values/morality that inform the rest of R4's output.
Hey, how's about we have an Atheist and/or Humanist 'thought for the day' thread on here. If it works, lets petition R4 to let them on too. 😀
No because some opinions should only be ridiculed.
No because some opinions should only be ridiculed.
Like that one? 🙂
If only I could get a few minutes on a nationwide radio program to share the joy mm.....
You do see the irony in that dont you Molly
If you rise to become spiritual leader of millions of people worldwide then I'm sure they'll let you on, surfer.
If you rise to become spiritual leader of millions of people worldwide then I'm sure they'll let you on, surfer.
I had no idea that sanctimonious trout Anne Atkins was so popular, are you including Twitter ?
is having an opinion that should be respected
No.
Respecting the right to have an opinion is different from respecting that opinion. Much as it'd like to have us believe, religion does not get an automatic get-out-of-jail free card for its hoary ideas.
If your opinion was that all the darkies and poofters should be rounded up and shot, should we respect that opinion? You're welcome to think it, but if you think it won't be challenged you're very much mistaken.
If you thought the moon was made of cheese, should we respect that opinion? Or would we be justified in ridiculing it? (Which is different from ridiculing the person holding it, of course.)
If you rise to become spiritual leader of millions of people worldwide then I'm sure they'll let you on, surfer.
but only if you are on to not promote your religion in any way shape or form 😉
Telling someone about something is not the same as trying to get them to agree with you.
I said they were spreading their message not trying to get me to agree with them - moving the goalposts somewhat blatantly there molly.
