Gawd!!! I’m glad i don’t employ many of you lot!!
Why? Do you knowingly take on more work than you have capacity to deliver? If not then your workforce should be able to do their work in their contracted hours. If they're not effective at their job and take 2 hours to deliver something that should be done in 1 then it's on you to sort that out. Issues that arise from an effective employee working according to their contract are not generally the fault of the employee.
Gawd!!! I’m glad i don’t employ many of you lot!!
Then I'm glad I don't work for you.
Gawd!!! I’m glad i don’t employ many of you lot!!
..and we may be glad we aren't employed by you
''Gawd!!! I’m glad i don’t employ many of you lot!!''
How much unpaid overtime do you think people should normally do?
I hate LinkedIn, and one reason is the hustle culture they promote, and this is a healthy reaction. I don't expect it from the people I employ.. if we need to work really hard sometimes, that's good, all the time... not good.
I'd near in mind you don't get good productivity just doing lots of hours as well. Other countries work less hours, and are more productive and profitable, and I like that a bit more
an anti-work, anti-ambition sentiment has been brewing among gen Z for quite some time now
Gawd!!! I’m glad i don’t employ many of you lot!!
I don't think that's entirely fair. Anyone entering the job market 2008< has probably had three or four decades worth of economic turmoil imposed on them in a quarter of the time (financial meltdown, austerity, Brexit, Ukraine), is it any wonder we're a bit jaded by the concept of a career when I can only point to 3 people from both my uni and work cohorts that have stayed in the job they started in. That's 90% of people either getting made redundant (some several times) or deciding the grass is greener elsewhere often in an entirely different job and industry.
Why bust a gut in a faceless corporation for the shareholders when on average we've only ever been 2.5 years from another financial apocalypse where we'll potentially be redundant again.
work is a 2 way relationship. plenty of people work hard every day and enjoy it and make plenty of money for their employer. However when one party in the relationship starts taking the piss, the other party will only take it for so long. (this goes both ways....)
And as said above quiet quitting isn't doing bugger all, its doing what is asked of you, but no more chasing the imaginary carrot of progression by doing extra hours / taking on extra responsibilities etc... and being paid the same.
We seem to be fostering a culture of work above all else in this country. It’s a terrible idea and we should all be working less in my opinion. About 90% of existing jobs are unnecessary bollocks any way. We should bring in a universal basic income for all. Then those that want to work themselves in to an early grave can feel free to do so whilst the rest of us get on living or doing something that is meaningful to us. Keep that money rolling in whilst the world burns.
I mentioned in a work training session that I switch my work phone off after work as it’s family time. Everyone looked at me like I’d just happily shit myself in front of them. Mildly offended would be a good description. I felt sorry for them and their families tbh.
However when one party in the relationship starts taking the piss, the other party will only take it for so long. (this goes both ways….)
It's like the salary scam that many fall for.
"Your salaried so stay as long as it takes"
The following week.
"Why are you leaving early it's only 15:00"
"I've finished my work"
" You're contracted to 17:00"
“How much unpaid overtime do you think people should normally do?”
None.
Anything in excess of your contracted hours is overtime.
This should be on a purely voluntary basis and paid at least time and a half.
There should be no sanction for people sticking to their contacted hours.
MoreCashThanDash
Full MemberIts a fancy term that seems to have more than one definition. I’ve normally seen it used to describe a work to rule/no additional hours or roles scenario.
ie "doing the job"
Couple of people have called it right, it's nothing but a new way of bashing people for not working for free. Sometimes you can choose to do additional work or go above and beyond for your own good reasons and that's fine but we've pretty much normalised coming in early, working late, picking up work that's left undone because people have left or been made redundant. There are entire industries that basically only function because of workers doing extra for nothing and how many people really get anything worthwhile out of it?
I had a boss years ago that asked me if I really wanted to be working there (joinery company) as it didn’t seem like my heart was in it.
I had to admit that I didn’t, so I left.
I had that before I'd even been accepted for a role once. When I was at college I went for a weekend job at Texas Homecare (remember them?). Had an interview, fine and was provisionally accepted. Went to learn how to use the tills - had a bit of a demo (there were 2 or 3 of us there at the same time, all new starters). I was happily having a play and learning how to use the til - scanning stuff in etc and ran up an imaginary bill of about £500k. Supervisor came over and accused me of messing around and asking if I wanted a job. Told them "not here and not for you" and left 😀
Gawd!!! I’m glad i don’t employ many of you lot!!
You have a problem with people fulfilling their contractual obligations?
an anti-work, anti-ambition sentiment has been brewing among gen Z for quite some time now
What a load of shit.
It's doing what you're paid for.
we’ve pretty much normalised coming in early, working late, picking up work that’s left undone because people have left or been made redundant.
I worked at a brilliant gaming company that was then taken of by a big American Corporate firm (of out-and-out bastards) who decided to enforce our contractual obligation to work a 'reasonable' amount of unpaid overtime.
They then repeatedly slashed the lead times on all jobs until it was just completely unattainable. Well... we thought it was unattainable. They didn't, because there interpretation of a 'reasonable' amount of unpaid overtime was 12 hour days, 7 days a week with no holidays. They had actually drawn up work schedules to this effect.
Everyone voted with their feet and left within a couple of months, including an entire department walking out one morning, and after that they just couldn't recruit because all specialist sectors are incestuous and bad news travels fast.
They had bought the market leading company in the field, absolutely destroyed what had been a fantastic working environment in a matter of weeks and then watched their market share plummet as all their highly skilled, experienced staff walked out. Their competitors were absolutely delighted to offer jobs to the evacuees.
Christ only how many millions, or probably billions, they lost with their brilliant new attitude to their staff, but ultimately doing this is just totally counterproductive. Nobody benefits, but unfortunately the desire of some senior management to be Billy Big Bollocks seems to override this
I read an article in the Economist that said UK productivity was the lowest of the G12, excluding Russia (though I read the article last year so things could have changed since then...)
They also mentioned that back in 2000's it was second only to the USA. What's changed in the interim I wonder?
I started full-time employment over 47 years ago and since that time I've seen my fair share of folk who would do the very minimum to ensure their continued employment. There's a massive difference between being at your work and being at work.
When I got pushed into the sales department when I was 18, little did I know that 22 years later I'd still be doing that role. With no qualifications outside of GSCE's and 22 years experience, I often feel I am quiet quitting. This current downturn is really not good, and my motivation and drive are at an all time low. A manager who does not have any empathy, and only talks about targets. We don't have an overtime option, but would be required to work outside the normal 9-5. Doesn't happen often though.
Relying on the manufacturing industries right now, the outlook is not good.
So, locked into a dead end job in an industry that is struggling with no way out to earn similar money in a different industry. I earn just above national average for a technical sales job with over 20 years experience. Maybe I'm being taken for a ride.
our contractual obligation to work a ‘reasonable’ amount of unpaid overtime
I've a pretty firm idea of how much extra work I believe is reasonable for me to do for free!
Indeed. Thats why I've spent most of my career as a freelancer. If I'm working then the meter is running 😀
You wouldn't believe how much it effects your attitude. When you're in a full time job and some bell end wants to change everything at the eleventh hour, to justify their own jobs, there used to be a lot of swearing.
When you're freelance, its just more hours on their invoice
work is a 2 way relationship
This. I am not a robot.
I read an article in the Economist that said UK productivity was the lowest of the G12, excluding Russia (though I read the article last year so things could have changed since then…)
They also mentioned that back in 2000’s it was second only to the USA. What’s changed in the interim I wonder?
We do score top marks for lowest investment by companies in themselves and also by HMG in UK infrastructure!
We have a culture of low skill, low paid employment which discourages making any investment in machines or employees to improved productivity.
When I heard about "Quiet Quitting" a year or so ago, I realised I was way ahead of the curve for once!
I bounced around a bit after Uni before landing at my current company, got a job that I enjoyed and was really good at but then (like others have said) had a change of boss. New boss was to be perfectly honest a bully. Nothing was ever good enough, work late but don't be a second late. Do extra stuff but don't let your core stuff slip. Changing priorities on a daily basis.
Managed to get promoted up and across away from him.
Since then I have had 2 job titles but fundamentally I am a team of 1. My boss (whilst good) also manage a different but related team.
Worked my butt off for a couple of years but after watching people who are fundamentally bad at their jobs but are really good at BSing or stay really late (mainly due to their inefficiency) get promoted, I decided to stop bothering.
Now I work my contracted hours (mainly from home), do my job and nothing more. No one covers for me whilst I'm on holiday so some things tend to grind to a halt but that's not really my problem. The laptop closes at 1700 and I basically don't think about work until 0830 the next day at the earliest. The work phone goes on holiday with me but is turned off and only taken for "I'm stuck in a airport/foreign country" type emergencies.
My work attitude in GIF form:
I read an article in the Economist that said UK productivity was the lowest of the G12
Productivity is a result of the skill of the work force, the systems and the plant that they work with. You can have people working 14hr days peeling potatoes by hand but the productivity would be low. You can have one person operating the magic peeler 5000 with a through put of 5000 potatoes per hour and the productivity is high. Simarly a worker who produces a high quality code ina afternoon is creating capital for a company and hopefully helping their profit. This is highly productive.
yes, no longer have individual performance measures, hence we get the same pay/bonus as the worst performers, well under inflation. many restructures and job losses in recent years to bare bones in many areas,
senior management support is at an all time low 46%,
goodwill is burnt out, i do 37.5 hours a week now, in the past it was mid 40s
I worked in a small department in financial services run by a total ***t of a boss. Being small we knew we had to be a bit more flexible and multi-skilled - at times it made things more interesting. But the boss also used this to handicap those doing well - piling on new tasks which guaranteed mediocrity or failure by the unfortunates who were lumbered. It was perfectly summed up by a junior employee who observed “you don’t get promoted here, you just accumulate more responsibilities “, and quiet quitting is the pushback on that sort of mentality.
Gawd!!! I’m glad i don’t employ many of you lot!!
are you Musk or Bezos?
I was once put on a PIP for not beating SLAs by ‘enough’
I still laugh about it now, having got a huge payout on leaving 😁
(I didn’t leave, directly, because of that but started doing exactly as I was told and nothing more for the duration of the PIP, 2 YEARS, until the line manager quit, and her boss was made redundant. I was offered VR 18 months later, payout was a years salary, bit their arm off.
‘I’m still standing’ is one of my faves of Elton John’s)
This is a salaried thing isn't it?
I've never understood salaries. If you're contracted for 160 hours per month, or whatever, then why has anyone ever regularly gone over that without sorting the problem.
I currently drive a truck on the same route every day on day rate. My finish time varies by about two hours, but my average equivalent hourly rate is acceptable. If I was regularly getting back late, lowering my equivalent hourly rate, I'd renegotiate my day rate.
Why don't people on salary do that?
It's a sort of class/ego/snob thing, isn't it. Day rates are seen as something for the workers, salaries are what management get (although, most salaried staff are simply, in old school terms, white collar workers themselves).
I’d renegotiate my day rate.
Wow, that simple eh? 😉
How much do you get paid on the days where you don’t drive the truck, for whatever reason?
It’s a sort of class/ego/snob thing, isn’t it?
I always think of it as an American thing.
I worked (very, very briefly) in a studio at a large American corporate where there were a small number of ‘salaried’ senior staff and all the rest of us were barely-tolerated, freelance plebs.
The presenteeism was absolutely off the chart. Us lot, who were paid by the hour, were in 30 seconds before we were due to start and out of there like a Polaris missile 0.0000000001 of a millisecond after we were due to finish
The salaried corporate whores would be in an hour before us and stop for at least an hour after we were gone
I wouldn’t mind, but they did absolutely **** all during that time (or for the rest of the day, for that matter), because it was us lot who did all the actual work! But it was just what was expected of ‘staff’ … to be seen ‘putting the hours in’, so it’s just what they all did. Every single day, without question
Absolutely bonkers! The mugs!
Wow, that simple eh?
Yes, there's a shortage of truck drivers and they don't want me to leave.
How much do you get paid on the days where you don’t drive the truck, for whatever reason?
It hasn't happened yet, but I wouldn't get paid.
However...
I was part time doing three days a week. This job* came up doing 5 to 6 hours five days a week, so I was asked if I wanted it instead.
*By different job, I mean different route/collection/delivery for the same company. A different role, if you like.
I read an article in the Economist that said UK productivity was the lowest of the G12
Productivity is a result of the skill of the work force, the systems and the plant that they work with. You can have people working 14hr days peeling potatoes by hand but the productivity would be low. You can have one person operating the magic peeler 5000 with a through put of 5000 potatoes per hour and the productivity is high. Simarly a worker who produces a high quality code ina afternoon is creating capital for a company and hopefully helping their profit. This is highly productive.
Economists talk about economic productivity, which is IIRC something like money earned for the company per hour worked. This is what some companies refer to when they say productivity, so you can increase it in perverse ways e.g. by lowering quality (one way of spending less time) or charging the customer more.
Yes, there’s a shortage of truck drivers and they don’t want me to leave.
New to that game. Or. A short memory ? Truckers T+c have been in decline for years and they reached crisis point to get you in that position Of being able to name your price - it hasn't always been that way.
I’m reluctantly at this stage myself, employer has been cruising on goodwill for too long now and enough people have left and not been replaced that we can’t realistically pick up the slack anymore. Management are hiding behind us from our clients and that’s the point where I checked out because I’m not covering for their problems forever.
Good use of the word "reluctantly". Theres a stereotype of lazy workers, especially in the civil service, but whether its been private or public sector, most people I've worked with want to deliver a good product/service, will do a bit more to do so, but the feeling of having your goodwill constantly exploited has worn many people down.
I’ve never understood salaries. If you’re contracted for 160 hours per month, or whatever
I'm not contracted for a certain number of hours. It just says I have to be flexible. I don't know how I'd even count how many hours I actually work since I am usually mucking about at the same time.
but the feeling of having your goodwill constantly exploited has worn many people down.
Stuff like a company deciding it doesn't want private use of company vehicles anymore despite being in our contracts.
Ok, I pay less tax and no longer answer the work phone after 5pm. Or agree to short notice overtime unless it suits me.
I give it my full 30%
New to that game. Or. A short memory ? Truckers T+c have been in decline for years and they reached crisis point to get you in that position Of being able to name your price – it hasn’t always been that way.
I can't exactly name my price, I'm on a fairly average hourly rate, although I'm only doing 100 miles/2.5 hours actual driving and sleeping for 1.5 hours in a 6 to 7 hour shift.
I passed my HGV test in 1995 and worked as a mechanic until recently, only doing a bit of driving as emergency cover. It's only the last couple of years I've been driving full (part) time.
Reading some of the replies here, there's a lot of conflict between staff and management. I work for a family firm with about 60 employees and avoid all that. I negotiate directly with one of the owners/directors and it's all done on good terms.
I wonder if it's possibly more prevalent after COVID . Where I worked during COVID we felt like we were treated terribly, it was used as an opportunity to by the company to permanently rip up T and C's and effectively fire and rehire their workforce whilst leaving management alone . Any goodwill , and there wasn't a lot before , was gone and people just shut off and stopped caring .
It's not complicated , treat people well and you'll get more out of them .
treat people well and you’ll get more out of them
It's amazing how people in power just don't get this.
A large %age Working for global megacorps probably has something to do with that.
The man setting the targets rarely sees those doing the doing.
treat people well and you’ll get more out of them
Don’t be coming round here with your mad, revolutionary agitating!
Don’t be coming round here with your mad, revolutionary agitating!
This is so true, speapking as an ex-middle manager running a tech support team, 24/7
