[Closed] Question for hot hatch fans

Civic Type R

Clio

[center]Type-R: tried one of them, very good but couldn't live with the styling. (Also the ride put me off - felt like it had no give at all, whereas the Clio Cup seems to feel stiff and supple at the same time.)

Golf Edition 30 or the Pirelli limited edition(fantastic design on the seats)

MG metro turbo 😀

You can spend the change sorting out the rust and replacing the engine each time it blows up.

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Nice!

Personally I'd have the Golf. Really nice inside, well put together good residuals. Much more room then the Clio, cracking engine and good fun to drive.

The Clio (i've never driven one I have to say) is probably more fun to hustle down a B road but I'd still have the Golf

Had a Civic Type-r as a company car, much happier to be back in an Octavia VRS.

I'd go Golf out of those 2, unless you're early 20's / don't mind people thinking you're a cock stand.

Golf - depreciation on the Renault will hit you harder, plus they're still not quite as well put together as VWs.

Now if you'd said Clio Trophy or Golf Edition 30, that would be a different question... But then it would *actually* be a different question 😳

thinking your a cock stand

LOL, but that's what I think of vRS drivers 🙂

Clio has a chavvy image. But why should chavs have all the fun?

Love the Pirelli interior.

Golf - depreciation on the Renault will hit you harder,

EDIT: Noticed, second-hand v new.

Err, not sure now.

To be honest I had a civic and I agree it's something of a marmite motor, I loved it my wife hated it.

I've had Golfs and if you can live with the dealers they are good cars a couple of mine had probelms with the electrics though..

clio trophy or a 172/182 with the cup chassis.

Well get the Clio then and we'll both look like cock stands then.

I'm off to get mine chipped and re-mapped might even see 220 bhp out of it.

renaultsport 200 is supposed to be best handling clio apparently it is reminiscent of the old peugeot 205 gti handling 😀

out of the 2 the clio please. However... Seat leon cupra?

The Golf by MILES.

The Renault handles well and is quick but the dealers are just shocking and they still fall to bits.

The Golf has a nice torquey engine, is really quick, handles very well and is MUCH nicer inside.

Those recommending CTRs have no idea what torque is - a CTR has almost none so unless you like ragging the s**t out of your car (occasionally fun, often wearing) then it'll get right on your nerves.

Golf every time. Won't let you down. Great to live with. Won't start to rattle like a hyperactive skeleton in a biscuit tin

One question - Why? 😉

Surf mat you are dead sure of yourself there but I think you're wrong.

I have had a Type R, a golf R32 and a volvo V50 T5 in the last few years.

The civic is fast even at low revs and will happpily pull from 30 in 6th. The other two are of course much happier low down in the rev range but for most day to day driving all three are perfectly fine. Where the civic scores is its handling and the fact that the K20 engine is a masterpiece, combined with a perfect gearchange for a 17k car. If you like drving hard and being involved it is the absolute nuts I did 23k in mine no worries. Get a mugen tune and 9.5k revs are possible and sound like nothing else in a production car (except an S2000)it's addictive..

My brother has one of those ST Ford Focus's I'd say that's also worth a look.

Really people should be asking, what are you going to be using it for?

what are you going to be using it for?

Getting to work in and having fun with on the weekends. No track use. But I want something I'm going to enjoy driving.

The civic is fast even at low revs and will happpily pull from 30 in 6th

You must be happy pulling away verrrrrry sloooowwwwwly then!

Until the revs kicked in mine drove like a pretty normal car.

Lack of torque also ruled out Type-R for me, along with the daft styling.

I had a MkII GTI, loved it but just a bit bored of Golfs. Renault seems a bit more hardcore. Build quality better than it used to be? ... chassis and engine tuned by car nuts in Dieppe ... I'm favouring Renault.

I think I'm just bored of all VAG product.

Jools - I do like the CTR is many ways and it DOES have one of the best gearboxes available in any car but the following put me off (this was the last shape - not the current one) when I tested one:

Needs thrashing - it really does
Back end is skittish
Electric assisted steering is a big vague
Interior although well made, just looks a bit chav
They are MPV shaped.

Focus ST is very good in many ways but the mpg is just insane for a car with (only) just over 200bhp. A Golf GTi, even an edition 30 will do low 30s - an ST is low 20s. And the older ST (ST170) handles better too.

Golf. A Clio will be fun, but you can actually use a Golf as a proper car. Do big miles in it, sit 5 in it, put bikes in the back easily etc.

A Clio will do your head in when you're not ragging it around.

Got to be the Golf really, depreciation on the Renault will be ridiculous. I looked at the Megane a couple of years ago, lovely car to drive but if I'd bought one I'd probably have 3 or 4 grand less to put into my next motor.

clio - golf is overpriced and a bit dull looking.

leggyblonde - you seem to know your Clios - is what people are saying about them being rattly and annoying true? The 200 I drove seemed pretty well made, to be honest. And my Golf rattled.

(I like your website by the way.)

Interesting point actually - a more fair comparison in terms of size would be Megane vs Golf. Megane R26, or possibly dCi, I reckon 🙂

Those recommending CTRs have no idea what torque is

You appear to be a little confused yourself.

If it's the golf check the seats before you buy it, the bolsters are bl@@dy uncomfortable 😡

R32 for sale, any takers?

Drove a ST Focus the other day and was amazed, very very good.

Get a Mk 2 golf and throw some money at it would be my choice.

leggyblonde - you seem to know your Clios - is what people are saying about them being rattly and annoying true? The 200 I drove seemed pretty well made, to be honest. And my Golf rattled.

can't speak for the 200 series, but you dont buy a 1*2 clio for the interior, lets put it that way 🙂

However if you want a car that is superb on the twisties but is still mannered enough for day to day driving then a 182 takes some beating IMO.

That focus ST has the same lump as my V50 T5 dead smooth, hugely powerful and fast the ST hits around 238BHP on 99 octane fuel.

I've driven my brothers a good few times and I like it lots reminded me of my R32 power delivery wise but had more grip and better handling.

Quite nice inside too.

You appear to be a little confused yourself.

Please explain further.

R32 for sale,

Go on then, tempt me … details?

I had a mk4 R32 for a year - really liked it. Amazing sounding engine, effortless and unstressed, pretty quick (but should have had more bhp for a 3.2 V6) and gripped incredibly well. Nice inside too.

See, people who know Clios (I'm talking Cup versions) seem to really love them.

I like the Clio cos it feels a bit bananas. Whereas the Golf feels mature … like your Mum.

lol^ yeah 182 cup edition here and even with the price of fuel i wouldn't give it up.

despite the fact its a wee car in reality there isn't much on the road these days that will worry it - the hardest thing is not speeding all the time.

Whereas the Golf feels mature … like your Mum.

Who for six people in this World, is Angelina Jolie...

Renault 5 Turbo2?

Please explain further.

power = torque * rpm * K

where 'K' is a constant relating your units of torque, rpm and power

Normaly you'd give those figures at the flywheel or driven wheels. If you imagine an idealised engine (note not the ideal engine, just a hypothetical one) with a completley flat torque 'curve' all the way from idle to a 10k rpm limiter it would have a power 'curve' that goes up in proportion to its revs i.e. it would have twice the power at 4krpm as it does at 2krpm.

Now heres some more maths:

acceleration = force/mass
acceleration = [(torque*k)-drag]/mass

k= a constant determined form the cars drive ratio, as mass is constant, acceleration at any point in time is proportional to the cars torque minus the sum of all the retardign forces acting on it.

However if you believe a car has no 'torque' as its not accelerating your mistaken. Look at the equation. thers 3 variables you can play arround with.

Torque - can be varied either by altering your trottle opening or engine revs (change gear) to find a value that suits you (the highest would be desirable for acceleration)

drag - trucks have massive torque, but wontaccelerate past 60 because theyre shaped like bricks

k - ok its a 'constant' but you can always downshift :-p and generate more 'torque' at the back wheels.

A road car with 400bhp at 10k is just producing just the asame torque as an F1 car doing 800bhp at 20k.

Spoon - I meant explain further about why I don't (apparently) know what torque is...

I did an engineering degree - I know what torque is! Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this though.