I had a pint of TT landlord recently that was 'pulled' just by flicking a tap on and leaving it (Canny Man in Edinburgh if anyone knows this establishment). Does this mean it is being served using CO2, and hence not a real ale?
If so, how come an unimpeachable ale like landlord is getting dished out in this fashion? And is there much difference between this variant and the hand pulled pint?
Electric pump? Used to be fairly common a few years ago.
And is there much difference between this variant and the hand pulled pint?
you tell us! No idea. That place is shite anyhoo.
Could be water pressure. That means the tap opens a water tap into a cistern. The air thus displaced, adds to the pressure in the beer barrel and pushes the beer out of the tap.
I'm not sure that system was ever widely used in England but is/was very common in Scotland.
Yeah, saw a few pubs serving 'Ale' in edinburgh via this method. the thistle street bar being one. Never seen it in England. I didn't try it, I wouldn't want to encourage that type of thing.
It is poor tbh (the canny man) - Some pyar tragic characters in there though. The Cloisters has shat the bed recently, too. Offering ale from Stewart brewing ffs - not too many decent ale houses round this part of Edinburgh at the mo.
Probbly best not to...
Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
Or a cellar upstairs - there's a few like that.
Kay's Bar - best beer/real ale in Edinburgh...
Carbonic acid does affect the taste, obviously.Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
This is not the only reason why CAMRA chooses to define real ales the way they do, though. All beer is naturally carbonated during the fermentation process to varying extents.
Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
Yes.
poncery and snobbishess
Thats what keeps it [u]good[/u] and interesting. The minute you give it mass apeal you have larger.
No thanks
Noticed Dark Island being served in a couple of places in Kirkwall in that manner earlier in the summer. Never seen it before with proper beer, and not sure that I like it 🙁
Saying that - the Americans serve everything (craft brewed or otherwise) in the CO2 manner and they do have some interesting beers so perhaps I should be a little more open minded.
But probably not.
Gin was always the poor person's drink in England, especially in the French occupied regions. Those two combinations make the south what it is today. Make your own conclusions.
Beer is Best.
could well be a water engine as druidh says
Isn't CO2 a by-product of fermentation anyway?
Anything bottle/cask conditioned will have undergone secondary fermentation and would be naturally carbonated.
I've never noticed any big taste difference between natural & forced carbonation.
[i]edit : Just seen Garry's post^^[/i]
Aye, I was more interested in the pint of Landlord from a definition pov - is the marketing value of 'real ale' important to Timothy Taylor nowadays, or are they happy to pitch it out any which way?
"Real Ale" is just an arbitrary definition from CAMRA really, it doesn't have any intrinsic meaning. You could even argue that it's no longer required and CAMRA can disband, mission accomplished. Or at least shrink to a core vigilance committee, like the lone vulcanologists who monitor the threat of long subsided eruptions.
They manned the barricades in the 70s against the tide of shite beer that was threatening to overwhelm our sceptered isle - for which every beer drinker in the country should bow down and give thanks. The barbarians are in retreat, now, and victory is assured. There's maybe less value in rigorously setting out what real ale is and is not as there once was.
Well, you can get Old Speckled Hen on keg now, co2 filled, pastuerised and filtered, totally different taste and IMHO opinion completely ruined.
The barbarians are in retreat, now, and victory is assured.
No I don't think they are as the above example proves.
Come to a 'real' pub try some 'real' ale, we'll educate your palate 😆
Fred, you do talk some twaddle sometimes. Please tell me why beer (or anything else for that) is not permitted the opportunity to be elevated beyond the lowest possible standards?
Oh, and if you think decent beer is poncey, I suggest you go for a pint at the Three Kings Inn in Hanby Castle. Mind you, I understand the Butcombe has now reached £2 a pint. An outrage and quite beyond the common man, I'm sure you'll agree.
****in' cooking lager drinkers..!
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
LOL.. have you ever met a poor man? What on earth gives you the impression that a poor bloke isn't gonna have any words of judgement concerning his ale..? It's not really ironic at all is it..?
you're a funny fellow..
>is the marketing value of 'real ale' important to Timothy Taylor nowadays, or are they happy to pitch it out any which way?
That's not necessarily the issue.
The one advantage of nitrokeg beer (it's mostly nitrogen, not CO2 AFAIA) is that the beer keeps. Eg our hall bar at uni was all nitrokeg beer - Sam Smiths, Bass, Courage - because it wouldn't go off before it was sold (ie low volume sales). Whereas most Sams pubs I know use the cask-conditioned stuff.
Oh, and the nitrokeg stuff tends (or used to) pass through a cooler - they're usually too cold for real ale...why on earth anyone would was to drink 'extra' cold Guiness beats me (or Guiness for that matter, the beer of last resort before lager AFAIC..)
For 'real ale' read cask-conditioned - doesn't mean you won't find the eqivalent in a nitrokeg tho', for the reason mentioned.
>You could even argue that it's no longer required and CAMRA can disband, mission accomplished
Wrong on numerous counts - CAMRA does campaigning on various isses, currently has a Locale scheme ongoing to promote locally brewed beers in pubs (and not particularly from the big brewers), there's it's share ownership scheme to have some say in pub companies, it's assorted publications both as books or membership magazine/paper (where else to advertise beers festivals to your target market?). Plus (mostly at the local level) orgaising beer festivals - that's all done by voluteers from the membership.
>Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer
Rubbish. You just have to look after then stuff properly, if you don't it'll taste like shite. You don't see any poncery or snobbishness at a beer festival, unless you think not lobbing it down yer neck without tasting it falls into one or other description. You *have* been to a beer festival...?
Edit - I'm not much of a fan of nitrokeg beer - all a bit bland and not much like the real thing. Like lager, but different...
Christ Almighty some of you lot can take things so far out of context they become a completely different material....
Carbonic acid does affect the taste, obviously.
I asked a question, I got a polite and simple answer. Thank you.
Fred, you do talk some twaddle sometimes. Please tell me why beer (or anything else for that) is not permitted the opportunity to be elevated beyond the lowest possible standards?
Where did I say it shouldn't, pray tell? Hmm? Well?
LOL.. have you ever met a poor man? What on earth gives you the impression that a poor bloke isn't gonna have any words of judgement concerning his ale..? It's not really ironic at all is it..?
Again, making up stuff that I didn't say at all. 🙄
I like beer. I also like lager. I make no pretentions to be any kind of 'expert', however. Unlike some on STW. I like what I like. I'm a fan of German style wheat beers, like Erdinger, Paulaner HefeWeisse, Franziskaner and Rothaus, which I was enjoying last night. I don't know much about 'real ale', but I do enjoy trying out new beers. I like lager too.
What I do know is that there's an awful lot of awful beers out there. Including 'real' ales. Some stuff I've had is proper nasty. I'd rather drink Stella. And there is a lot of snobbery out there too, as with many things in our society it seems. Language, Hi-Fi, Art, Music, etc. People really do like to feel superior to others, that they've made a more informed and clever choice. Bag o shite. STW is a haven for such snobby ponces; folk are constantly trying to outdo one another.
Trouble is, too many people go for the label rather than just enjoying what they like. Too worried about what other ponces will think if they have anything less than Old Thunklegrub's Ferretwarbler in the cellar...
I wasn't having a pop at CAMRA btw. Good that people care passionately about maintaining standards.
You *have* been to a beer festival...?
Yep.
why on earth anyone would was to drink 'extra' cold Guiness beats me (or Guiness for that matter, the beer of last resort before lager AFAIC..)
See, I see that as snobbery. Sneering at the choices of others, as if they are somehow inferior. People like different things, you know?
(Opens 'inferior' Co-Op Wheat Beer. Feels the disapproval of STWers. Doesn't care)
Mmm, beer...
aaaah.. you're right of course.. [i]you always are[/i]... hence my desire to take you down a peg with an off the cuff remark.. to see a human side ( I blame the stella)..
and hence of course the inevitable intellectual pasting I recieve for my efforts.
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
this statement's sole intent is to infer that a poor man does not indulge in poncery and snobbishness... which begs the question.. have you ever met a poor man..?
why should poor folk be any less inclined towards poncery and snobbishness.? I can only assume that you glean your knowledge of the lest fortunate from misty eyed classics and poor sunday afternoon movies.. or maybe lonely alcoholics in the park..
a simple 'ha ha.. you caught me napping there Yunkster' would have sufficed.. instead you launch into some hypocritical idealistic diatribe displaying an intellectual snobbery and poncery of the highest order..
why do I care..?
Because in the absence of any friendly chat here.. I have been sucked into the STW intellectuall one-upmanship computer game.. this is my world of warcraft... my sonic the hedgehog.. I must score a point.. must try and win..
save me from myself
Opens 'inferior' Co-Op Wheat Beer
That's far from inferior; it's re-labelled Acrobrau (as is; I believe Waitrose wheat beer) - I didn't realise they still sold it; it must just be the ones near where I live that have stopped stocking it - damn !
I just like Wychwood's marketing: "What's the matter lagerboy, afraid you might taste something".
Pretty much sums up the lowest common denominator driven blandness of most lagers and jet-propelled John Smiths deliberately drunk because of their blandness. (And presumably by the same people who consider Pizzahut pizzas to taste better than the cardboard boxes they come in)
Elfinsafety - MemberLot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
Poor mans drink? I think you might find you are mistaken there...
Beer was originally brewed because it was unsafe to drink just normal water at the time. Whereas the brewing process killed off most of the nasties. This meant that beer was really only drunk by those who could afford it, or who worked for those who could afford it.
So no, it wasn't originally the poor man's drink of Britain. It's what the toffs would drink in place of water... and blimey they used to get through the stuff!
:o)
Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
The other problem with CO2 is that it affects the texture of the drink too.
But of course the way a traditional pint is hand-pulled varies from region to region anyway - in the south it is generally pulled without a head, but in the north a sparkler is used to aerate the beer and to create the head (and give a smoother feel).
Beer was originally brewed because it was unsafe to drink just normal water at the time. Whereas the brewing process killed off most of the nasties.
I don't think brewing killed off any nasties, it's just that the "hidden" bacteria would make the beer go off, so if you drank just good tasting beer you'd be OK.
I don't think brewing killed off any nasties,
Well, the yeast would out-compete pretty much anything else living in the water under fermentation conditions, so pathogens would be several orders of magnitude lower...
TT Landlord is an awful pint though CO2 might have improved it but i doubt it
but in the north a sparkler is used
wouldn't the beer put it out or is it just a bonfire night thing?
<thinks RD may be a bit weird>
EDIT: After his edit, I'm convinced 😉
Water in general, was not generally potable until relatively recently in historical terms and brewing was a way of making this water safe to drink. It's the boiling stage or the process which kills most of the nasties and makes it safe...
but in the north a sparkler is used
wouldn't the beer put it out or is it just a bonfire night thing?
Ayo ho ho ho!
😀
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
😀
right I'm adding "poncery and snobbishness" to the list of catchphrases on the official ElFreddedBraBoy FAQ. (where it will obviously join the classic "No, you're a racist").
I prefer quirky to weird
Landlord is posh pubs john smiths, give me weatheroak's "light oak" or enville "white" any day
I like Sam Smith's beer - it tastes something like what I imagine beer used to taste like when we all lived in little communities and had local pubs making their own beers.
I prefer quirky to weird
Landlord is posh pubs john smiths, give me weatheroak's "light oak" or enville "white" any day
I'll give that a LOL if you don't mind, son. You're trying to compare a couple of Barratt new builds to St Pauls Cathedral.
Skinners and Sharps are the best ales and made in Cornwall. Skinners is abouty two miles from here, wife's grandad built the units that Sharps use - so a bit of a connection.
CO2 "ale" like John Smiths is minging. End of.
Skinners ales are indeed great, I had a load of them on Holiday over summer.
Not that keen on Sharps, and the place we stayed served doombar by CO2 too!
CO2 "ale" like John Smiths is minging. End of.
John Smith's isn't a 'CO2' ale. It is freely available hand-pulled from tapped and spiled barrels.
But of course people tend to like local beers as they are used to the taste.
John Smiths is also available in cans - that's not a good sign in an "ale" - plus I had 15 cans of it at Uni and was utterly ruined.
I like non local ales too - Brains, Youngs, Sambrooks and many many others all make a lovely tipple.
I find it makes pub trips more interesting when out and about - no ultra bland lagers, just a local ale with their own little quirks and often a tale to tell.
Occasionally though, a cold lager is all that will do.
TTL is a superb pint, Rocketdog - you have wierd tastes 😆
CAMRA adopt an ale-nazi approach in that to qualify as "real ale" then the beer must not be dispensed using CO2 or any other gas and the ale must contain live yeast which conditions the beer.
IMO CAMRA are wrong on the CO2 thing, CO2 should be allowed to replace airspace in casks as beer is drawn out (devices called cask breathers do this). This would prolong the lifespan/quality of a cask and encourage smaller volume outlets to "try" real ale. I do agree that using CO2 to dispense or force-condition a beer is wrong though.
John Smiths is also available in cans - that's not a good sign in an "ale" - plus I had 15 cans of it at Uni and was utterly ruined.
But that is because it is a bigger brand and available in different forms than just from a hand-pulled barrel.
It is also available in tins with 'Smoothflow' and that isn't carbonated.
I was just correcting your incorrect claim that John Smiths is a CO2 ale.
MF - fair enough but it's generally "fizzy"
"Proper" ales only come from the barrel or in bottles IMO.
MF - fair enough but it's generally "fizzy"
Well the carbonated stuff is yes. The Smoothflow from a can isn't and the hand-pulled stuff certainly isn't. Not my favourite beer by a long way but just telling you it as it is (but if your experience of it is getting wasted on 15 tins of CO2 tins then I am not surprised you aren't keen).
I have similar relationships with pernod and southern comfort 😳
