I had a pint of TT landlord recently that was 'pulled' just by flicking a tap on and leaving it (Canny Man in Edinburgh if anyone knows this establishment). Does this mean it is being served using CO2, and hence not a real ale?
If so, how come an unimpeachable ale like landlord is getting dished out in this fashion? And is there much difference between this variant and the hand pulled pint?
Electric pump? Used to be fairly common a few years ago.
And is there much difference between this variant and the hand pulled pint?
you tell us! No idea. That place is shite anyhoo.
Could be water pressure. That means the tap opens a water tap into a cistern. The air thus displaced, adds to the pressure in the beer barrel and pushes the beer out of the tap.
I'm not sure that system was ever widely used in England but is/was very common in Scotland.
Yeah, saw a few pubs serving 'Ale' in edinburgh via this method. the thistle street bar being one. Never seen it in England. I didn't try it, I wouldn't want to encourage that type of thing.
It is poor tbh (the canny man) - Some pyar tragic characters in there though. The Cloisters has shat the bed recently, too. Offering ale from Stewart brewing ffs - not too many decent ale houses round this part of Edinburgh at the mo.
Probbly best not to...
Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
Or a cellar upstairs - there's a few like that.
Kay's Bar - best beer/real ale in Edinburgh...
Carbonic acid does affect the taste, obviously.Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
This is not the only reason why CAMRA chooses to define real ales the way they do, though. All beer is naturally carbonated during the fermentation process to varying extents.
Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
Yes.
poncery and snobbishess
Thats what keeps it [u]good[/u] and interesting. The minute you give it mass apeal you have larger.
No thanks
Noticed Dark Island being served in a couple of places in Kirkwall in that manner earlier in the summer. Never seen it before with proper beer, and not sure that I like it 🙁
Saying that - the Americans serve everything (craft brewed or otherwise) in the CO2 manner and they do have some interesting beers so perhaps I should be a little more open minded.
But probably not.
Gin was always the poor person's drink in England, especially in the French occupied regions. Those two combinations make the south what it is today. Make your own conclusions.
Beer is Best.
could well be a water engine as druidh says
Isn't CO2 a by-product of fermentation anyway?
Anything bottle/cask conditioned will have undergone secondary fermentation and would be naturally carbonated.
I've never noticed any big taste difference between natural & forced carbonation.
[i]edit : Just seen Garry's post^^[/i]
Aye, I was more interested in the pint of Landlord from a definition pov - is the marketing value of 'real ale' important to Timothy Taylor nowadays, or are they happy to pitch it out any which way?
"Real Ale" is just an arbitrary definition from CAMRA really, it doesn't have any intrinsic meaning. You could even argue that it's no longer required and CAMRA can disband, mission accomplished. Or at least shrink to a core vigilance committee, like the lone vulcanologists who monitor the threat of long subsided eruptions.
They manned the barricades in the 70s against the tide of shite beer that was threatening to overwhelm our sceptered isle - for which every beer drinker in the country should bow down and give thanks. The barbarians are in retreat, now, and victory is assured. There's maybe less value in rigorously setting out what real ale is and is not as there once was.
Well, you can get Old Speckled Hen on keg now, co2 filled, pastuerised and filtered, totally different taste and IMHO opinion completely ruined.
The barbarians are in retreat, now, and victory is assured.
No I don't think they are as the above example proves.
Come to a 'real' pub try some 'real' ale, we'll educate your palate 😆
Fred, you do talk some twaddle sometimes. Please tell me why beer (or anything else for that) is not permitted the opportunity to be elevated beyond the lowest possible standards?
Oh, and if you think decent beer is poncey, I suggest you go for a pint at the Three Kings Inn in Hanby Castle. Mind you, I understand the Butcombe has now reached £2 a pint. An outrage and quite beyond the common man, I'm sure you'll agree.
****in' cooking lager drinkers..!
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
LOL.. have you ever met a poor man? What on earth gives you the impression that a poor bloke isn't gonna have any words of judgement concerning his ale..? It's not really ironic at all is it..?
you're a funny fellow..
>is the marketing value of 'real ale' important to Timothy Taylor nowadays, or are they happy to pitch it out any which way?
That's not necessarily the issue.
The one advantage of nitrokeg beer (it's mostly nitrogen, not CO2 AFAIA) is that the beer keeps. Eg our hall bar at uni was all nitrokeg beer - Sam Smiths, Bass, Courage - because it wouldn't go off before it was sold (ie low volume sales). Whereas most Sams pubs I know use the cask-conditioned stuff.
Oh, and the nitrokeg stuff tends (or used to) pass through a cooler - they're usually too cold for real ale...why on earth anyone would was to drink 'extra' cold Guiness beats me (or Guiness for that matter, the beer of last resort before lager AFAIC..)
For 'real ale' read cask-conditioned - doesn't mean you won't find the eqivalent in a nitrokeg tho', for the reason mentioned.
>You could even argue that it's no longer required and CAMRA can disband, mission accomplished
Wrong on numerous counts - CAMRA does campaigning on various isses, currently has a Locale scheme ongoing to promote locally brewed beers in pubs (and not particularly from the big brewers), there's it's share ownership scheme to have some say in pub companies, it's assorted publications both as books or membership magazine/paper (where else to advertise beers festivals to your target market?). Plus (mostly at the local level) orgaising beer festivals - that's all done by voluteers from the membership.
>Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer
Rubbish. You just have to look after then stuff properly, if you don't it'll taste like shite. You don't see any poncery or snobbishness at a beer festival, unless you think not lobbing it down yer neck without tasting it falls into one or other description. You *have* been to a beer festival...?
Edit - I'm not much of a fan of nitrokeg beer - all a bit bland and not much like the real thing. Like lager, but different...
Christ Almighty some of you lot can take things so far out of context they become a completely different material....
Carbonic acid does affect the taste, obviously.
I asked a question, I got a polite and simple answer. Thank you.
Fred, you do talk some twaddle sometimes. Please tell me why beer (or anything else for that) is not permitted the opportunity to be elevated beyond the lowest possible standards?
Where did I say it shouldn't, pray tell? Hmm? Well?
LOL.. have you ever met a poor man? What on earth gives you the impression that a poor bloke isn't gonna have any words of judgement concerning his ale..? It's not really ironic at all is it..?
Again, making up stuff that I didn't say at all. 🙄
I like beer. I also like lager. I make no pretentions to be any kind of 'expert', however. Unlike some on STW. I like what I like. I'm a fan of German style wheat beers, like Erdinger, Paulaner HefeWeisse, Franziskaner and Rothaus, which I was enjoying last night. I don't know much about 'real ale', but I do enjoy trying out new beers. I like lager too.
What I do know is that there's an awful lot of awful beers out there. Including 'real' ales. Some stuff I've had is proper nasty. I'd rather drink Stella. And there is a lot of snobbery out there too, as with many things in our society it seems. Language, Hi-Fi, Art, Music, etc. People really do like to feel superior to others, that they've made a more informed and clever choice. Bag o shite. STW is a haven for such snobby ponces; folk are constantly trying to outdo one another.
Trouble is, too many people go for the label rather than just enjoying what they like. Too worried about what other ponces will think if they have anything less than Old Thunklegrub's Ferretwarbler in the cellar...
I wasn't having a pop at CAMRA btw. Good that people care passionately about maintaining standards.
You *have* been to a beer festival...?
Yep.
why on earth anyone would was to drink 'extra' cold Guiness beats me (or Guiness for that matter, the beer of last resort before lager AFAIC..)
See, I see that as snobbery. Sneering at the choices of others, as if they are somehow inferior. People like different things, you know?
(Opens 'inferior' Co-Op Wheat Beer. Feels the disapproval of STWers. Doesn't care)
Mmm, beer...
aaaah.. you're right of course.. [i]you always are[/i]... hence my desire to take you down a peg with an off the cuff remark.. to see a human side ( I blame the stella)..
and hence of course the inevitable intellectual pasting I recieve for my efforts.
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
this statement's sole intent is to infer that a poor man does not indulge in poncery and snobbishness... which begs the question.. have you ever met a poor man..?
why should poor folk be any less inclined towards poncery and snobbishness.? I can only assume that you glean your knowledge of the lest fortunate from misty eyed classics and poor sunday afternoon movies.. or maybe lonely alcoholics in the park..
a simple 'ha ha.. you caught me napping there Yunkster' would have sufficed.. instead you launch into some hypocritical idealistic diatribe displaying an intellectual snobbery and poncery of the highest order..
why do I care..?
Because in the absence of any friendly chat here.. I have been sucked into the STW intellectuall one-upmanship computer game.. this is my world of warcraft... my sonic the hedgehog.. I must score a point.. must try and win..
save me from myself
Opens 'inferior' Co-Op Wheat Beer
That's far from inferior; it's re-labelled Acrobrau (as is; I believe Waitrose wheat beer) - I didn't realise they still sold it; it must just be the ones near where I live that have stopped stocking it - damn !
I just like Wychwood's marketing: "What's the matter lagerboy, afraid you might taste something".
Pretty much sums up the lowest common denominator driven blandness of most lagers and jet-propelled John Smiths deliberately drunk because of their blandness. (And presumably by the same people who consider Pizzahut pizzas to taste better than the cardboard boxes they come in)
Elfinsafety - MemberLot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
Poor mans drink? I think you might find you are mistaken there...
Beer was originally brewed because it was unsafe to drink just normal water at the time. Whereas the brewing process killed off most of the nasties. This meant that beer was really only drunk by those who could afford it, or who worked for those who could afford it.
So no, it wasn't originally the poor man's drink of Britain. It's what the toffs would drink in place of water... and blimey they used to get through the stuff!
:o)
Why would using CO2 be a bad thing? Woon't affect the taste, would it?
The other problem with CO2 is that it affects the texture of the drink too.
But of course the way a traditional pint is hand-pulled varies from region to region anyway - in the south it is generally pulled without a head, but in the north a sparkler is used to aerate the beer and to create the head (and give a smoother feel).
Beer was originally brewed because it was unsafe to drink just normal water at the time. Whereas the brewing process killed off most of the nasties.
I don't think brewing killed off any nasties, it's just that the "hidden" bacteria would make the beer go off, so if you drank just good tasting beer you'd be OK.
I don't think brewing killed off any nasties,
Well, the yeast would out-compete pretty much anything else living in the water under fermentation conditions, so pathogens would be several orders of magnitude lower...
TT Landlord is an awful pint though CO2 might have improved it but i doubt it
but in the north a sparkler is used
wouldn't the beer put it out or is it just a bonfire night thing?
<thinks RD may be a bit weird>
EDIT: After his edit, I'm convinced 😉
Water in general, was not generally potable until relatively recently in historical terms and brewing was a way of making this water safe to drink. It's the boiling stage or the process which kills most of the nasties and makes it safe...
but in the north a sparkler is used
wouldn't the beer put it out or is it just a bonfire night thing?
Ayo ho ho ho!
😀
Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.
😀
right I'm adding "poncery and snobbishness" to the list of catchphrases on the official ElFreddedBraBoy FAQ. (where it will obviously join the classic "No, you're a racist").
I prefer quirky to weird
Landlord is posh pubs john smiths, give me weatheroak's "light oak" or enville "white" any day
I like Sam Smith's beer - it tastes something like what I imagine beer used to taste like when we all lived in little communities and had local pubs making their own beers.
I prefer quirky to weird
Landlord is posh pubs john smiths, give me weatheroak's "light oak" or enville "white" any day
I'll give that a LOL if you don't mind, son. You're trying to compare a couple of Barratt new builds to St Pauls Cathedral.
Skinners and Sharps are the best ales and made in Cornwall. Skinners is abouty two miles from here, wife's grandad built the units that Sharps use - so a bit of a connection.
CO2 "ale" like John Smiths is minging. End of.
Skinners ales are indeed great, I had a load of them on Holiday over summer.
Not that keen on Sharps, and the place we stayed served doombar by CO2 too!
CO2 "ale" like John Smiths is minging. End of.
John Smith's isn't a 'CO2' ale. It is freely available hand-pulled from tapped and spiled barrels.
But of course people tend to like local beers as they are used to the taste.
John Smiths is also available in cans - that's not a good sign in an "ale" - plus I had 15 cans of it at Uni and was utterly ruined.
I like non local ales too - Brains, Youngs, Sambrooks and many many others all make a lovely tipple.
I find it makes pub trips more interesting when out and about - no ultra bland lagers, just a local ale with their own little quirks and often a tale to tell.
Occasionally though, a cold lager is all that will do.
TTL is a superb pint, Rocketdog - you have wierd tastes 😆
CAMRA adopt an ale-nazi approach in that to qualify as "real ale" then the beer must not be dispensed using CO2 or any other gas and the ale must contain live yeast which conditions the beer.
IMO CAMRA are wrong on the CO2 thing, CO2 should be allowed to replace airspace in casks as beer is drawn out (devices called cask breathers do this). This would prolong the lifespan/quality of a cask and encourage smaller volume outlets to "try" real ale. I do agree that using CO2 to dispense or force-condition a beer is wrong though.
John Smiths is also available in cans - that's not a good sign in an "ale" - plus I had 15 cans of it at Uni and was utterly ruined.
But that is because it is a bigger brand and available in different forms than just from a hand-pulled barrel.
It is also available in tins with 'Smoothflow' and that isn't carbonated.
I was just correcting your incorrect claim that John Smiths is a CO2 ale.
MF - fair enough but it's generally "fizzy"
"Proper" ales only come from the barrel or in bottles IMO.
MF - fair enough but it's generally "fizzy"
Well the carbonated stuff is yes. The Smoothflow from a can isn't and the hand-pulled stuff certainly isn't. Not my favourite beer by a long way but just telling you it as it is (but if your experience of it is getting wasted on 15 tins of CO2 tins then I am not surprised you aren't keen).
I have similar relationships with pernod and southern comfort 😳
CO2 makes up the airspace in casks; the soft spile (or cask breather) only allows for the CO2 to escape in the early stages of secondary fermentation to prevent over-carbonating. At this point, no air can enter the cask.
With the eventual reduction of CO2 production comes the possibility of the beer oxidising. The soft spile is replaced by a hard (non-porous) spile to keep the beer in condition.
If you're moving the beer quickly enough, allowing air into the headspace shouldn't be a problem?
mf - Southern Comfort is a no no for me too after throwing up all night after too much of it. And Green Charteuse. And JD. And and and...
Oops - my teenage/early 20s years were a bit of a booze filled haze...!
Haze - what replaces the volume of beer drawn out of a cask then ?
Druidh is right it's a water engine used either to create top pressure by pumping air into the cask or to pump it out of the cask, it's a peculiarly scottish method.
John Smith's isn't a 'CO2' ale. It is freely available hand-pulled from tapped and spiled barrels.
I've found 'proper' John Smiths, Boddies, and even Worthies to be a damn good pint when from casks. And yes, amusingly quite a bit better than [i]some[/i] local beers they'd usually be snubbed for...
Well I recently was given the gift of beer for my birthday - the 52 Week Beer Club from mybrewerytap (STW forum dweller owns it).
Cracking stuff mainly (just a couple of beers I wasn't too keen on) and great to get to try lots of proper local beers from small independent breweries.
I don't care how it is made or served, just so long as I enjoy the drink.
aaaah.. you're right of course.. you always are... hence my desire to take you down a peg with an off the cuff remark.. to see a human side ( I blame the stella)..
and hence of course the inevitable intellectual pasting I recieve for my efforts.
No you really misunderstand me, Yunki. I'm not trying to score one over you, just pointing out that you've misinterpreted my comment.
[b]Lot of poncery and snobbishess surrounding beer. Ironic seeing as how it originally was the poor man's drink in Britain.[/b]
this statement's sole intent is to infer that a poor man does not indulge in poncery and snobbishness... which begs the question.. have you ever met a poor man..?why should poor folk be any less inclined towards poncery and snobbishness.? I can only assume that you glean your knowledge of the lest fortunate from misty eyed classics and poor sunday afternoon movies.. or maybe lonely alcoholics in the park..
S'got nothing to do with the 'poor's' lack of taste or sophistication, I was talking more about the way beer is now seen by some as some sort of indicator of their own status, a bit like how oysters were once the food of the very poor, but are now incredibly expensive. Make sense? And then you get all the 'poncery and snobbishness' which drives the sale of 'niche' beer, and makes the consumer feel that they are getting a 'superior' product. Jond's comment about 'how on Earth can anyone drink Guinness and lager' kind of proves my point here. 'My pint's better than your pint'.
As for a 'poor man's drink'; beer was drunk pretty much by everyone in Britain, following it's introduction by folk like the Romans etc. A tax on hops in the c17th meant that the very poor resorted to drinking gin.
Have I ever met a poor man? Well, I've been to Bangladesh, and seen incredible poverty there. People don't drink beer there, which is odd because the water's lethal....
As for the CO2 thing; I'd have to drink pints poured using both methods side by side, to be able to taste the difference I'd say. I've probbly drunk loads of pints poured using CO2, and enjoyed them.
The minute you give it mass apeal you have larger.
I think this sums things up in terms of people's desire to be privvy to something 'niche' or exclusive; not very often on here do you see people all banging on about some mass-produced big-name commonly available bike, do you?
Too busy desperately trying [i]not[/i] to be one of the 'masses'.
[i]'I'm not one of the lumpenproletariat, no, really, look at my niche bike/beer/cheese/razor/hi-fi. I'm not ordinary, I'm unique and special...'[/i]
Let's not get started on wine/drinkers, eh? 😯 😉
I don't care how it is made or served, just so long as I enjoy the drink.
Amen.
All hail beer!
allthepies - Member
Haze - what replaces the volume of beer drawn out of a cask then ?
Air.
See last sentence 😛
All hail beer!
Absolutely. I have been known to 'bless' beer by flicking small amounts out of my pint whilst shouting 'All hail the beer gods' in my time. Probably too many times really 🙂
I prefer wine bars. I've been known to flick through my filofax in such establishments.
MF - I know this is wrong but I have a picture in my mind of that geeky guy from the Inbetweeners when he got stoned and went a bit "crazy..."
I shall now mostly be in trouble...
John Smiths (and boddingtons etc) tend to taste waaaaay better hand pulled from casks, especially when the pub is fairly close to the brewery... Everytime I go back home to North Yorkshire, I remember why I liked Smiths in the first place and how bad it tastes with co2, from cans etc.
Oh and no-one drinks beer in bangladesh as the vast majority of the population are muslim! Monasteries used to brew beer (usually a lot weaker than today) for its health giving properties (i.e. you don't get ill from the water) and monks used to drink loads of it! Hence the reason places like Belgium still have a fair few monastery based breweries: "Brother Theodore, the octogenarian guiding figure behind the Chimay Trappist brewery, still takes a bottle of sustenance after morning prayer."
I'm more concerned that they sell Landlord in Scotland.
Surf-Mat - Member
MF - I know this is wrong but I have a picture in my mind of that geeky guy from the Inbetweeners when he got stoned and went a bit "crazy..."I shall now mostly be in trouble...
No, you are probably correct. 🙂
Electric pump (or ponsey lever thing) don't have sparklers on so you dont get a proper head.
The Scottish and southerners dont know what they are talking about when it comes to beer. Stop off in Yorkshire if you want proper stuff.
Isn't John Smith's biiter just Carling or whatever shite lager gets made in the same factory, just not carbonated and coloured brown with caramel?
****in' minging stuff all the same.
Stop off in Yorkshire if you want proper stuff.
You know, as a Yorkshireman I can't agree. There's nothing I like more than going somewhere new and trying the beers.
My brother has just moved to the arse-end of Truro and I am already looking forward to going down next month and having a few beers in whatever has become his local.
And Yorkshire does Theakston's which is singularly the most evil beer in history (at least it is to me - I get murderous headaches from that stuff). But it IS good when you go to the Black Bull in Masham for a stag party with a bunch of Americans and watch them quickly wilt under the power of Old Peculiar though 🙂
(Imagine a Californian accent) 'What? Another pint?'
'Yep'
😆
Mastiles - I reckon that Yorkshire must have more breweries,brewing drinkable stuff than any other part of the UK.
I disagree too Samuel Smiths is considerably more revolting than Theakstons, hence why they sell it for next to nothing. Theakstons doesnt seem to travel well, its nice stuff but you have to get it in the right pub.
You have some odd ideas sometimes Elfred. 🙂
Simply being discerning about what you drink (or eat, read, watch, etc) is not snobbery.
Surely anyone who enjoys drinking (rather than it simply being a vehicle for getting pissed) will have some preferences over what they drink and thinks that certain other drinks are minging.
That's just basic taste.
If I said I like Vegemite and you said you thought it was bogging, I wouldn't consider you a sandwich spread snob! 😉
Growing up in Glasgow I had my fair share of bogging fizzy chemically lager/beer (Tennent's, McEwans... bleurgh). I far prefer a nice real ale and I can't understand folk enjoying crap lagers, though obviously a good cold refreshing lager is lovely on a hot day.
Incidentally this is my local: http://www.theboathousewylam.co.uk/
[img] 
[/img]
15 hand pulls (3 cider the rest real ale) with different beers every week.
CAMRA award winning pub for that area and praising entries in the Good Beer Guide.
Note how snobby it is 😉
MF - be sure to mention your trip down. Just to confirm I'm real. A blast up the St Mawes road in the Stealth Bomber would be an option 😉
Small volume outlets can just take a pin of real ale from a microbrewery I'd have thought if they can't shift 32 pints in a couple of days there's something pretty wrong going down.
I won't drink Stella, but that's not snobishness I just don't want to drink something that's brewed in about three hours start to finish...
Ale was drunk to purify water but hops were a relatively late addition Gruit was drunk widely and flavoured with Bog Mytrle and Yarrow amiongst others.
CAMRA funny organisation my local branch are shocking.
Landlord is the beer posh pubs have in just so they can put "real ale" on the sign outside and fool punters into thinking they are real ale drinkers. if you think it's good you need to widen your horizons a bit and try some other beers, I guarantee you'll not go back to landlord, I'd rather drink the water they've used to clean the glasses than that
if you think it's good you need to widen your horizons a bit and try some other beers, I guarantee you'll not go back to landlord,
You'd be wrong with me then. I'm an ale nut and attend 3-4 beer festivals each year, brew my own from raw ingredients yadda, yadda. Still love a well kept pint of TTL though and will continue to 🙂
Landlord is an odd one, sometimes you have a pint and its the best pint you've ever had, sometimes you have a pint and it mings.
Allthepies, maybe you just have poor taste 😉
Matt - might hold you to that one should I have the time. Let's see if it as fast as my cousin's A4 S4. He let me drive that though BTW 😉
And I am with allthepies - nothing wrong with Landlord.
And I love a cold bottle of Stella as I cook a meal of a night.
But I still happily try anything else - if I am in a real ale pub (Harrogate has two good ones - the Tap n Spile and the amazing Old Bell Tavern) I try to find beers I have never heard of to try (I would avoid Landlord in such a place).
brew my own from raw ingredients
On the brink of my first AG, I'm experimenting with extract whilst I get familiar with system losses, water treatment, recipes etc.
Feel free to recommend one!
I disagree too Samuel Smiths is considerably more revolting than Theakstons
I like Theakston's, I just can't drink it because of the hangovers I get. I like the traditional taste of Sammy's, it doesn't give me a hangover AND it is brewed in a traditional way using no artificial additives, preservatives etc.
And I can get pissed, have a curry and a taxi home and spend less than I would in a town centre pub charging £3+ a pint (or bottle).
Turn it in rOckeTdOg, you sound like a 17 yo who's been supping for 6 months, and wants to assert his rugged individuality by slagging off something popular.
Exactly analagous to saying a Giant Anthem is an awful bike, I'd rather ride a shopper, cos, like, I was at Glentress and all these weekend warriors were riding them.
No one who knows anything about ale would disparage a brew with the pedigree and heritage of TTL. Might be far from their favourite pint, but it has to be respected.
You ever had a go at a Landlord [b]allthepies[/b]? Seen quite a few clone recipes online but apparently quite hard to replicate.
You ever had a go at a Landlord allthepies? Seen quite a few clone recipes online but apparently quite hard to replicate.
Yup, even got hold of Golden Promise pale malt which Taylors use in TTL. My effort was very nice but wasn't TTL, it's *very* difficult to replicate a commercial brew in the homebrew environment.
Ah. Beer, the cause of, and solution to all life's problems.
[url= 
]This[/url] is rather good. Weak on UK beer but pretty good on your Europeans.
I've no problem with Landlord - it can be a lovely pint. Might not be the most interesting beer but its reliable and makes a pleasant change if you've been stuck with a limited choice for a while.
GrahamS - The Boathouse in Wylam is a brilliant pub. I had a night in there when me and a mate rode Hadrian's wall a few years back. It's not snobby at all, there was an Irish Wolfhound AND a Chihuahua in the same bar. Very inclusive.
Agree that Landlord can be a great pint when kept properly. The place I used to work ordered two 18 gallon casks as the guest ale, all I can say is it was a happy two weeks of drinking.
Black Sheep is similar, I've had some awful pints and great ones, as with Tetley's cask too. Just depends if it's being looked after.
Mmmmm, beer.