We're considering part exchanging our car in the summer, but the current one has a significant coolant leak, it goes from max to minimum in about 3 weeks. Its been to 2 garages who've drawn a blank, but then I'm not totally convinced their heart is set on being bothered to fix it.
We would like to PX the car this year so we still get a reasonable amount for it but not sure what to do about this coolant leak. Hopefully the next garage it goes to will spot something simple and relatively cheap to fix, but what to do if its in the region of £500 to fix? As I see it there are a number of options -
1) Fix it and run the car for a few more years - this makes most sense but the car has never worked out as being particularly cheap to run, seems to have ongoing minor mechanical issues and is lacking a bit in the electronic gadgets department. We're getting to the point where we feel we should cut our losses and get something a bit newer.
2) keep topping up the coolant and deny any knowledge of the leak at PX time - Not comfortable with this as if my new car from the same garage is covered by a warranty from them it won't make for a great relationship. Also feel that this is unfair on the next buyer of the car, however I'm sure the feeling is rarely reciprocated to me when I've bought cars in the past.
3) Keep topping up the coolant and point out the issue at time of part exchange and see what they offer me.
4) Fix the coolant leak and part exchange it in a few months - This seems like the most expensive thing to do but seems like 'right thing to do'.
Radweld, part-ex, "sold as seen," tendjewberrymud.
Srsly, they'd do it to you in a heartbeat.
Cougar +1
Get rid, say nowt. They'll probably ship it on to auction anyway.
A cracked cylinder head between the valves would cause the leak you describe.
3 - I'd be honest and if they want it fixed it'll be cheaper for them than you.
I've just ordered a new car and asked about PX on my old one, he just looked at it, got the age/mileage and gave me a price. He didn't look at it at all - so I pointed out the significant amount of keying but he didn't even seem that bothered about that. Car is due in June so hopefully he'll stick to that.
Pressure-test? Checked all the pipes and radiator for leaks?
Does the car drip? If so whereabouts?
What car is it?
It could be the headgasket.
Mcmoonter - would there not be any other symptoms to look out for? I guess this isn't going to be cheap to repair.
Alternative suggestions range from leaking head gasket to leaky water pump. One of the garages has already replaced the termostat housing which is a known casue of the leak in this car.
I agree with the 1st 2 points but liek an idiot I have a conscience and not sure I could do this, however it probably will go straight to auction.
Radiator caps?
Any ideas where it is leaking from? I know you said the garages had drawn a blank, but if this was from disinterest....
If it's a leaky hose, joint or rad then probably not too big an issue. Head gasket or cylinder head would be a diferent matter.
Are you geting any steam / white smoke in the exhaust?
Or any brown foamy deposits on the inside of the oil filler cap?
Any mis-fires or dampness on the plugs...assuming petrol that is!
I've not had a look TBH, although I should.
Its a diesel so smoke out the exhaust is difficult to differentiate.
I'll have a nosey around some time.
In terms of driving it seems about the same as it always has done.
In terms of fixing it,
If you're losing water, there's only two ways it can go, out and in. If you can't see where it's coming out, it's going to be expensive.
I'd go for the honest approach and either get it repaired or at least inform the garage when you discuss PXing it.
You wouldn't want to be ripped off by somebody selling you a car with a known problem without at least being made aware of it, so just because they're a 'business' doesn't make it acceptable to pull the wool over their eyes.
My car did this and a garage did the usual pressure test/contamination tests and turned up blank.
I'm pretty sure it was a blown headgasket. When driven hard the heaters got exceptionally hot, which i think is exhaust leaking into the coolant making it hot and forcing excess coolant out the overflow.
i traded it in, I said it had some problem with coolant but the dealer did no other checks - didn't even get in it!
could just be a pinhole leak in heater matrix, usually awkward to get at, and warm, so the coolant just evaporates as it leaks, or around the rad or other pipe work with the same effect. don't worry about it. Cougar +1.
I'm not trying to defend the second hand car trade but . . .
You get a good price part ex, the Trader decides to put you Car on the forecourt as sales car. They sell it and 2 weeks later the buyer returns complaining about a coolant leak.
Trader sold it in good faith, but who ends up with the bad reputation?
Bitter, me?
Hth
Marko
I have a conscience
With respect, I think you're over-thinking it. You're selling the car to a garage.
a) it's their responsibility to check it, and they will check whatever they're bothered about. They're far better equipped to check out a car than Joe Punter. However, they won't, they'll ask "does it run?" and that's your lot because,
b) they don't care, they'll offer you PX as a way of making you think you're getting a better deal than you are by selling you a new car for what they wanted in the first place. The 'premium' cars they take my be sold through their own used cars outlet but there's a high chance they'll sell it for chocolate buttons in auction.
Trader sold it in good faith, but who ends up with the bad reputation?
The garage, and rightly so, for not checking it first. If a building [i]full of mechanics [/i]can't buy and sell used cars reliably then what hope do the rest of us have?
I recently p/ex`d a car which had faulty Air con,a cat which was going to require imminent rpelacement to name but a few faults.Tha garage still paid a good price for it, and then had it on their forecourt a week later for a whopping margin.
I`d p/ex it and keep schtum.......
Cougar,
OP said his Garage can't isolate the problem, so how much time is a sales outlet going to spend on a problem that they don't know even exists?
Like I said I'm not defending the car sales trade, but sometimes it's the customers that are the problem and not the trader.
Hth
Marko
p.s. OP: A tin of 'block repair' (Holts or similar) will fix the leak BTW.
Pieface,
My girlfriend had a 2000 VW polo which she wanted to PX for our current 2008 Fiesta, some point in the cars life The polo had a knock at the rear end. The repair job was shoddy and had started to rust, baring in mind we got a £1200 PX value on the car we spent nearly £800 putting the damage right.... We took the car to be PX'd and the garage didn't even look at the car, they said because of the age it would be auctioned off....
could have saved a bucket load of cash!
Garages are interested in the sale & finance not the PX as they will just get rid.
I'll try the radweld.
I could keep topping up the coolant but I'm concerned that if its leaking into the engine rather than out, I'm filling it up with coolant!
I have checked the oil on the distick and it looks Ok.
Mcmoonter - would there not be any other symptoms to look out for? I guess this isn't going to be cheap to repair.
I had a coolant loss issue. No visible leaks or compression bubbles in the coolant header tank which would indicate a head gasket failure. If the head cracks between the valves, water finds its way out through the exhaust usually as steam.
I've also seen coolant escape into a water cooled oil cooler, but that turns the coolant reservoir into a mayonaise factory.
A head or complete engine swap is the only economic way, but it will be costly.
I'll try the radweld.
save yourself a tenner and just use a couple of egg whites 🙂
losing a litre of coolant in 3 weeks is, imo, unlikely to be a head gasket. but as above, try the easiest solution to fix it, then px it anyway without saying anything. Margins are built into used cars to cope with this sort of thing
OP said his Garage can't isolate the problem, so how much time is a sales outlet going to spend on a problem that they don't know even exists?
About the same amount of time they'd spend on a fault knowing that it exists, in all likelyhood.
save yourself a tenner and just use a couple of egg whites
I did this years ago with a then-girlfriend's Mini.
Worked perfectly well until the fanbelt snapped one day. She thought "I wonder what that little red light means?" and ignored it. Half an hour later, it boiled up and the radiator exploded.
Fixing the radiator wasn't a huge job in the grand scheme of things. Removing the boiled egg from the windscreen and bonnet, however, took [i]hours.[/i] It seemed to have formed some sort of molecular bond with the glass. :sadface:
I did laugh, though. Eventually.
This sounds exactly like a head gasket on a diesel, a tiny amount of the coolant is being sucked into one of the cylinders on every suck, and goes out through the exhaust. It might not be leaking back into the coolant yet as on the squeeze part of the cycle it closes up the leak. Will gradually get worse and worse and will start leaking both ways, so look for mayonaisse in the coolant and over pressurising of the coolant system. I had this on a 406 many years ago, I ignored it and it eventually leaked big time into the cylinder, hydraulically locked the cylinder and spat the con rod and lots of oil out through the engine casing all over a french motorway. Would get rid pronto.
if you want to p/x it without revealing the leak, as i would. Then don't radweld. It cam leave a little red drip trace on the cooling fins which will warn the garage. If you want to be honest, then radweld is clearly not the way either.
The first garage that failed to fix the problem said that when they were changing the thermostat housing they noticed / suspected a head gasket leak whilst they were digging around. They went on to say that it would cost several hundred pounds and it wasn't worth doing and to trade the car in.
TBH a HG can be a big (£) job. You haven't said what but is it a 307?
focus?
Focus, 2002 TDCi
Garage said that HG was mainly labour costs. Apparently while your at it you may as well do cambelt as well (done about 80k miles so due relatively shortly)
then you've got two routes as I see it:
1. Fix it. The costs mean you keep it.
2. Radweld and px it.
On a personal level option 2 doesn't sit well with me. I think you are running out of time though as at somepoint you'll end up with overheating/cracked cylinder head then neither above option is worth bothering with.
or pull the thermostat and put up with crappy mileage for a while 'til you get rid.
car trade takes no prisoners and they don't offer PX to do you a favour, they do it on the basis that they 'might' make money both ends of the deal, and as mentioned above, they do the sums on the basis that they have to do some work one day.
many cars move about within the trade too, as a garage will often have a certain price point that they work at.
caveat emptor.
that goes for you too. i wouldn't take too seriously any warranty a SH dealer offers either.
FWIW we've booked it in to the garage, because despite the ever growing cost of diesel a back of a fag packet calculation says that the focus is a bigger, faster car than a 1.2 petrol fiesta and works out only 0.15p per mile more expensive.
Looks like option 1 unless its really expensive.
Ah, I've found your solution if you want to get rid without any moral concerns: http://www.webuyanycar.com