[Closed] Pulled for speeding, but I wasn't speeding. What can I do?

So he doesn't know how fast he was driving but you know he was speeding?

If they'd wrote me a ticket saying 33 or 32 in a 30, well that seems pretty harsh but at least it was true.

Al,

The opinion of two* police officers, or one police officer and a calibrated speedometer (or other measurement device) is [b]sufficient[/b] evidence that the limit was exceeded. As you will recall from your legal training, sufficiency is not the same as quality. So this will meet the "case to answer" criteria but won't necessarily** prove beyond reasonable doubt. Police officers usually present as credible and reliable witnesses with their livelihood and liberty at stake for lying in court.

There is no requirement for the Police to provide any evidence or witness statements before the case calls in court and you officially lodge a not-guilty plea. English courts award costs (typically £600 ish even without an expert witness) to the CPS if you loose, so it is therefore a very big gamble.

(*one on a motorway)
(**although in the absence of defence evidence or an very good cross examination that introduces doubt it probably will)

*A few years ago I read a forum topic by a bloke who did time inside after he went out for a morning drive and it ended up with a motorcyclist in a serious accident. His prison diary and experience leading upto that lead me to slow right down. I can't remember a car I'd had before that that I hadn't had sideways. A fact I'm not proud of. I even shared the topic with a couple of friends who I thought would benefit from reading it.

10pence's account starts on page 3

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=442266&mid=0&i=40&nmt=Prison%3F&mid=0

You'd fail your test with that attitude.

Except I passed my test 1st time and in 20 years of driving I've amassed a grand total of 3 points, incurred 19 years ago.

10pence's account starts on page 3

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=442266&mid=0&i=40&nmt=Prison%3F&mid=0
/p>

Cheers. I'll re-read this. It always helps when you feel like 'pressing on'/seeing what your car can do/you feel good and you know your a good/swift-driver bollocks.

Track day it or **** off IMO.

When I was 16 I was riding my Mum's moped in a 30mph zone and was pulled in by a policeman who was standing in a bus stop pointing a 'hair dryer' at me.

The moped struggled to reach an indicated 30mph on that particular road, so although I'd spotted him from some distance away I continued to putt, putt my way towards him, happy in the knowledge that I was 'safe'.

The policeman's actions were extremely ambiguous, consisting of him vaguely waggling the radar gun rather than blocking the road and demanding me to 'halt', which I'd have expected had I been breaking the law. However, as I passed him, something about his demeanour made me suddenly decide to stop, so I pulled into the bus stop, dismounted, parked the scooter, and removed my crash helmet, expecting to be told it was all a mistake, but he said sternly, "Now then, Sir. Do you know you were speeding in a 30mph zone? You were doing 30.5mph! However, I'll let you off seeing as you stopped, which is more than can be said for that last ******!" Whereupon he leapt in his car and sped off down the road, blue lights flashing, no doubt in hot pursuit of some hapless motorist who had incorrectly interpreted the policeman's gestures as a friendly wave.

as that would mark you out as a monumental bell end

My experience of dealing with our esteemed police force is that, on the whole, they are usually reasonably decent human beings. But like any cross-section of society, you do get some who are just arseholes. Which isn't a great situation when they're in a position of power / authority.

MrNice - Member

"I don't even know how manufacturers can sell a car/bike that's not limited to 70!"

Come on, I'm sure you can do better than that! 1/10

Why is that a troll?

Cheers poly, that makes sense.

To those that have checked their speed against GPS etc, do you keep checking as your tyres wear down?
Genuine question as I assumed the error of the speedo crept in as you wore your tyres down, ie driveshaft still spinning at x revolutions but you are travelling further, hence faster, on a new set than on a set at the min legal limit? or am I talking bobbins and the impact is too small to notice? 🙂

BoardinBob - Member

It's a limit, not a requirement

"You'd fail your test with that attitude."

Really why?

IMO the reasons for the penalty are:

1. They did not apply discretion even when the road is empty.
2. You drove off too quickly from start stop hence they noticed you.
3. You are a black taxi cab driver ... they don't like taxi driver.
4. They are lesbians and they like to act tough.
5. You pissed them off because they are lesbians with above reasons.

They could easily give you a verbal warning but they want to act tough with power ... to dominate you.

Yes?

My advice is to get a proper dash cam if your livelihood depend on driving.

😯

Really why?

I got a minor on my test for doing 25 in a 30 - near a school, about 8.30, kids all over, cars parked on both sides of the road, lots of traffic - it was considered to be undue hesitation. I got another for waiting behind a cyclist rather than overtaking where I could only have left about 3 feet of space. The driving test's priorities are a bit messed up.

Really why?

Hesitancy, or failure to make progress.

For the purposes of a test you're expected to drive at or near the posted limit unless there's a good reason not to, mincing around at 20mph in a 30 zone would suggest a lack of confidence / experience and almost certainly earn you a failure. Unless that's changed since I learned to drive, anyway.

When I was learning/doing my test I was told you had to make reasonable progress- my instructor basically said "if you're not near the limit, make sure there's a good reason". So frinstance going from a 30 to a 40, you're expected to accelerate, joining a dual carriageway you're expected to accelerate up to match the speed of traffic etc.

"Progress" is a tested element and you can get a fault for going inappropriately slowly, hesitating etc.

High way code makes it clear that it is a maximum not a suggested speed . Driving under the limit does not amount to hesitation . As stated above a minor does not fail your test . So an attitude like that would not fail you your test where as driving at or near the limit as a requirement regardless of circumstances or road conditions would.

Driving under the limit does not amount to hesitation

If I'd passed through another stretch of road like the first I would have failed as I was on two minors in the same category - driving in the way described would have failed me my driving test.

Without knowing the accuracy of his speedo (and his eyes / brain), whether he was actually still breaking the limit or not is pure speculation.

All posts are, by default, speculative as none of us know all the facts.

chewkw - Member

4. They are lesbians and they like to act tough.
5. You pissed them off because they are lesbians with above reasons.

They could easily give you a verbal warning but they want to act tough with power ... to dominate you.

🙄

To those that have checked their speed against GPS etc, do you keep checking as your tyres wear down?
Genuine question as I assumed the error of the speedo crept in as you wore your tyres down, ie driveshaft still spinning at x revolutions but you are travelling further, hence faster, on a new set than on a set at the min legal limit? or am I talking bobbins and the impact is too small to notice?

Good question.

Say the diam of your wheel rim plus tyre is D, the circumference is pi x D

Now say that your tread has worn down by 10mm over the life of the tyre.

The new diam is D-10, the new circumference is pi x D - pi x 10. Pi x D cancels, and the differential is pi x 10mm = 31.4mm. So for each revolution of a wheel, you'll travel 31.4mm further on new tyres than old.

Is that significant? Depends how big your wheels are. Take a standard 215/60 R16 like on my Smax. Diam = 16" = 406.4mm + 2 x tyre width (60% x 215) = 258mm, makes total 664.4mm. Circumference = pi x diam = 2086.2mm

So the 31.4 due to tread wear is only 1.5%, so if your speedo is accurate at saying 70mph when tyres are new, when worn down when the speedo says 70mph you'll really only be doing 69.

I do love a good "I can justify speeding" rant on the internet.

I love a good "I haven't actually read any of the thread but I'm going to be judgemental anyway" rant on the Internet.

The OP has been charged with driving at 35mph. He asserts that his speedometer was reading under this value. Assuming that the OP isn't mistaken and that he doesn't have an illegal speedo, the the charge is false. This is the crux of the OP.

Without knowing the accuracy of his speedo (and his eyes / brain), whether he was actually still breaking the limit or not is pure speculation.

I was talking about the question of speed limits needing to be higher due to car advances etc... as per some post in this thread...

I don't even know how manufacturers can sell a car/bike that's not limited to 70!

Come on, I'm sure you can do better than that! 1/10

Good one! (sarcastic)

Although I have no idea why you think that to be honest.

Isnt the advice from motoring experts to slow down if you are being closely tailgated so that your speed is appropriate to the gap left? Or even better pull in and [s]beat the tailgater to death with your cock[/s] let the tailgater pass, then continue on your journey safe in the knowledge that in the event of an emergency stop you wont be piled into by the aforementioned tailgater?

Take a standard 215/60 R16 like on my Smax. Diam = 16"

To be pedantic, that's the diameter of the wheel without the tyre.

To get the actual figure, you need the tyre diameter.

[i] the tyre diameter. [/i]

60% of 215mm x 2 + equivalent of 16" in mm?

but tyre inflation pressure would affect actual diameter too?

60% of 215mm x 2 + equivalent of 16" in mm?

Well spotted 😉

To be pedantic, that's the diameter of the wheel without the tyre.

To be pedantic, your complaint about ignoring the tyre isn't pedantic. That is a completely valid observation that would substantially affect the calculation. Pointing out that tyre inflation might affect the answer by a miniscule amount is pedantic.

The fact you missed that I HAD included the tyre in the calculation is something else entirely; neither valid not pedantic. But politeness prevents me from typing ****wit on a family forum 😉

[i]Pointing out that tyre inflation might affect the answer by a miniscule amount is pedantic.[/i]

*preens*

Well, I'll go and produce on Wednesday and see if it goes anywhere from there

So what did they say when you produced your doc's?

[i]So what did they say when you produced your doc's? [/i]

I don't think it went well...

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-got-a-job ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-got-a-job[/url]

I don't think it went well...

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-got-a-job

Comes with company car though so he must still have his licence.

Unless there are adverse weather conditions or hazards there is no reason to drive 5 or 10 mph under the limit. The limits have been set by the authorities to be a safe driving speed, not some arbitrary figure you just come up with.

Sorry, but that's just daft.

As an example you are welcome to tackle these corners at 60, the [i]"safe driving speed"[/i] as [i]"set by the authorities"[/i]:

[img] [/img]

There are big holes in the crash fences and bunches of wilting flowers for those that do.

Personally I use my judgement and slow down a bit to a speed I feel comfortable taking them in with my vehicle.

That might seem an extreme example, but in Northumberland I'm surrounded by rural roads that are all NSL by default and on many of them 40 would be too fast, even in perfect conditions.

As an example you are welcome to tackle these corners at 60,

Challenge accepted, now where is this road?

I'll borrow this for the afternoon

[URL= http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad88/RichMTB77/DSCF1465_zpsef7fcc96.jp g" target="_blank">http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad88/RichMTB77/DSCF1465_zpsef7fcc96.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

EDIT

This is said in jest of course. The point you make is especially valid on Scotland's many singletrack roads where an average speed of 30mph is "making progress"

Not followed this but someone was done for dangerous driving under the speed limit as it was not safe to do that speed and clearly 60 mph on many country roads is not only not safe it would lead to the certainty of crashing even on a closed road.

the speed limit is that the MAXIMUM speed you can do it is not the TARGET speed you must achieve

That red car looks like the sort of thing seen on council estates across the country .Usually old ones that chavved up !!

but tyre inflation pressure would affect actual diameter too?

wheel RPM also affects actual diameter due to centrifugal loads (although probably not even measurable on a normal road car at road car speeds).

With regards to doing less than the limit - in the peugot bends are fun. In the 4x4 they are not. I really noticed just how much more twisty NSL roads on the IoW are compared to here on the mainland when we got back from there this summer.

As I told the OH when she was learning the speed limit is a limit and not a target. But it is bloody frustrating when people drive excessively slow. even more so when people do 30 in an NSL and then 40 in a 30... 🙄