I could move but as a teacher in Scotland I'd be on the same. I could move in private sector but in teaching that means moving and I've already been there.
I have project management experience from MoD work years ago when I managed 2 £3mill per year projects.
I like where I live and everyday the kids make me laugh with their genuine happiness and cry with the shocking conditions some have to endure.
To be honest education and I'd guess a lot of other services are on their knees and will be cut more. It's not as though the pension is what it used to be.
Teachers were 5% wasn't it? But that is on the back of a decade of below inflation rises (even though inflation was low). I think it'll be enough to stop strikes. What I would strike about is the fact it has to be found from existing budget so it will negatively impact learning and teacher workload.
Secondary school teacher on UPS2, been told there's no chance of anyone going up a band on the pay-scale this year due to budgets (even though I've ticked all the boxes for 3 years now).
DfE provisionally offered 5% earlier this year, but seem to have gone quiet.
We're being balloted by union this week.
So I imagine strikes will happen in 2023.
a_a yep Scottish teachers offered 5% as I say if they'd offered it day1 of negotiations it'd probably have been accepted as it was above inflation at the time. But they dragged their heals and now inflation is well ....
Secondary school teacher on UPS2, been told there’s no chance of anyone going up a band on the pay-scale this year due to budgets
Ask them to put it in writing!
Then apply and challenge them not to.
Then move schools...
Scottish teacher here too. The Unions eventually conceded to a 2.12% (or something very similar) in February 2022 to settle the at-that-time-still-outstanding 2021 claim. They said at that point that they would be pursuing a 10% claim for 2022-2023, and that was before the current inflationary pressures kicked off.
We have been balloted on accepting the offer of 5% - on a 78% turnout, 94% rejected the offer ans 91% supported strike action. We are now in a statutory ballot for strike action which will in all likelyhood go ahead. No one that I have spoken to actually wants to strike, but morale is at rock bottom and teaching salaries have a long history of below-inflation rises then a correction once a blue moon.
The only way to get more money is get promoted..
.
and then just end up stuck at the bottom of that scale (as I have been for a number of years)
with absolutely no personal offence intended, thats what they call "promoted to your level of incompetence"
i echo highlandmans sentiments.
Weve been offered 3% by employer, lower scales upto 9%.
Like a lot of public sector we struggle to recruit and retain (HE).
moving across to a comparable job, directly opposite in the private sector for me would require a complete suspension of morals, which I’m not prepared to do. So I stay put and do my best to support this country and more importantly, the people who live in it by being as effective as I can in an important job.
Private sector is also full of dead wood and people just doing the minimum to get by etc. We don't have low productivity in the G7 for nothing - it's been hard earned by lack of investment, poor education, poor health and poverty wages! Although, apparently it was all to have been solved by abolishing the 45% tax bracket and removing the cap on bankers bonuses.
Ask them to put it in writing!
Then apply and challenge them not to.
Then move schools…
😆 Tempting, but it's not that they necessarily don't want to, but I suspect there's bugger all in the kitty.
They trimmed SLT by 2 members last year, and we have hardly any TAs. Times are tight.
I have been looking around, but jobs seem to be thin on the ground in the SW this year.
5% has been offered to civilian police staff in Scotland up from the derisory initial offer. Police officers accepted 5% but we're being balloted on this offer at the moment. Will see what happens.
Got about 4% which was better than the 0% last year but with inflation is no better than the 1% I got the previous few years
Worked in both private and public sector over the years and found just as many sometimes more lazy hiding away types in the private sector than the public. The main difference been those in the private sector tend to talk a good show to hide their uselessness!!
Always chuckle how the government seem to blame the public sector for all the economic woes until the sh@t hits the fan!
I don’t work in the public sector and reading this is depressing and anger inducing. Teachers, nurses, emergency services workers all deserve paying way more than they get. It’s ridiculous the amount of work they put in for the monetary reward. More so when you consider what crucial roles they all play in society.
I’m the sole earner in my family and we’re staring to struggle, but I’d happily pay more tax if it went to the aforementioned peoples pay. We’d be royally screwed without these (you) people doing what you do.
We’re still agreeing the details as some of our employees are under national agreements on negotiations and some aren’t. But it looks like everyone will get a fixed £2k pay rise irrespective of salary. This is probably quite a good way of dealing with some of the cost of living challenges as those on the lowest pay grades are likely to struggle the most.
Oh and I’m at a Combined Authority (city region in other words).
Civil servant not yet agreed but told to prepare for disappointment in the 1.5 to 2% range, nothing last year. Wife is NHS got about 4% backdated to April arrears were completely eaten up in increased pension contribution and moving forwards it's about 1.8% more.
. Yet, those in better paid work out in the private sector love to throw mud around without any knowledge of what it means to have vast backlogs of work and not enough resources to deal with it.
If you think that and under inflation pay rises are a public sector only problem I fear you may need to modify your understanding of the private sector.
I don't mean that harshly I just find it tiring when either side thinks the other lives in some kind of utopia that doesn't have all the problems of the other just dressed up in different clothes. Those average private sector pay rises and bonuses you hear about aren't going to the shop floor they're usually concentrated near the top.
There are real parallels between austerity and some styles of private sector management.
You cut everything in terms of internal services, investment and people to the bone then cut some more and you beat up your supply chain so they do the same.
You then ask those people and resources to do more to deliver the same or more of your services/product. All sound vaguely familiar? You then give the difference to your owners...
The fundamental difference to those down the food/salary chain is that with public sector austerity you cut the top line income (tax) and then hack away at the costs whereas in the private sector drive for profits you demand growth in cash in, squeeze the spending etc.
Not all the private sector is like this and of course it's more complex because shareholder profits go in a large part to pension companies and the like who have invested people's savings for their retirement and that's important too.
All the above oversimplified on my part but that's the general gist of it to me.
The reality is neither the private sector nor the public sector can exist without the other and unless we make very big changes to our retirement model we can't live into our retirements without "greedy shareholders" either.
We need better rises in the income groups who can least afford it regardless of their sector. The rest of us may need to take a little squeeze to make it happen.
I should add that in the current world of crazy inflation that some private sector businesses cannot pass cost increases on (including staff costs) so the only way to manage that and keep the business alive is to squeeze everything for survival, which has the same effect except the shareholders aren't getting their bit.
As strange as this may seem but we do understand that both sectors are having it tight.
There does still seem to be myths about public sector. Heehaw work done, unsackable, gold plated free pensions, early retirement to the good life and generally a land of ambrosia.
Watch what happens to the language used in papers when pay rounds come round or services are to be cut, lazy teachers/doctors/nurses. Fire service sleeping all shift before heading off to second job, teachers holidays etc etc etc
Im an ACP in a GP Practice - so no pay rise at all this year as GP Practices are pretty much private businesses and the staff are covered by AfC. My yearly review is due in 4 weeks - a Practice closer to me are offering 20% higher wage than what im getting currently so thats my negotiating position to start with....
Buzz our brigade has budgeted for up to 7 percent but was told they have to give what they are told by the employer, they kept it aside as they expected it coming, im surprised other brigades didn't plan ahead tbh it seems many thought the money would magically appear
@firestarter apparently the mayor of London had offered to fund a 5% rise for the LFB but the union declined it due to it being a national issue. I don't know if you've heard any different but I heard today that each individual service is being asked to cover the difference between the 2% and 5%, some of the county brigades have flatly said they don't have the money, but the NJC went ahead and made the offer regardless. Be interested to know what you're hearing where ever you are.
5% back dated to April NHS
We just got told from the chief he had set aside the funds for a rise but was not allowed to pay us it as it was a nationwide thing, but smaller brigades have no money
There are murmurs London and Scotland have been pushing for different agreements but seems unlikely, im west yorks btw
Ours hasn't been agreed yet, but I'm haemorrhaging staff to the private sector because I can't match their salaries.
Teachers, nurses, emergency services workers all deserve paying way more than they get
Don't forget all the other public sector workers who construct and maintain the buildings, make sure the IT works, works in admin, does the finance, the HR, the cleaning, catering, transportation, procurement, environmental management, health and safety, data analysis, policy development and implementation, staff training, grounds maintenance, security, reception, portering, legal...
The list goes on and is a fraction of the amount of specialisms that I've missed
Some of us do have analogous roles in private sector and we're more often than not well behind in real world earnings than our equivalents since austerity started. There's bigger peaks and troughs in private, but we've been shafted for over a decade
with absolutely no personal offence intended, thats what they call “promoted to your level of incompetence
No idea what’s the point of that, but tbh fairly drunk atm 🙂
If I mess my job up people can die, not big things that have no impact as Stalin said m but savage individual murder, before that it was kids getting raped. Public service has given me a fair old whack of ptsd.
Welcome to the world of public service in 2022
Teacher in Scotland and a union rep. We will be out in the new year, offered 3.5 then 4.5 then 5% by COSLA after last years piss take. Wages have dropped 20% in value in the last decade while workload has soared. All against a background of having to go to the Supreme Court to get the pension we signed up for. Anybody needing a site agent/ estimator? That was easier.
Duckman did you end up in court I was under the impression that it was only the fire fighters and judges that went to court and it was to the benefit of all
NHS here too so I guess as others. Not all pension contributions are going up, some bandings are seeing it going down.
whether you agre with incremental points or not, they are much less favourable than they used to be.
Mrs FD is s surgeon and she is getting royaly screwed with Pension Annual Allowance contributions which means she is facing a £6k tax bill to pay in the next financial year, yet her organisation still want her to keep doing extra sessions.
the government said they were going to fix this query that sees many docs getting screwed every year, but they still haven’t yet the NHS want docs to do more and more additional work to reduce backlogs. As in Mrs FD case this can mean they end up working for free / negative pay
Firestarter, meant it as a public servant.
I'm a project manager for network rail. I started this position 1 year before C-19. The first year I had no performance review (terrible line manager) and was listed as developing in role. We then went into pay freeze during lock down and a re-organisation. This year the Unions and NWR agreed a pay rise for my band of 4%, which I was happy with. And then I discovered that NWR has also increased the starting salary for Project Managers by 4%. So I am still on the absolute starting salary after 4 years experience and 4 years of receiving 'exceeded' performance reviews. That was a kick in the nuts.
The reality is neither the private sector nor the public sector can exist without the other and unless we make very big changes to our retirement model we can’t live into our retirements without “greedy shareholders” either.
We need better rises in the income groups who can least afford it regardless of their sector. The rest of us may need to take a little squeeze to make it happen.
Nicely said, I guess the annoyance is those that fall for and repeat the government/media "them and us" approach
NHS - blanket £1400 rise, which will work out as a different % depending on salary, but for many may not cover the recently announced rise in pension contributions.
My line manager is worse off every month after his 'pay-rise' tipped him into a higher higher pension contribution (with no increase in benefit) and owes arrears on his pay because it took so long to give us the 'April' pay rise. I don't believe the increase has been funded by central government, so needs to come out of existing budgets, although I may be wrong, but I'm also expected to find cuts as well............
NHS Scotland 5% , union balloting for strike as they want more for the lower grades which seems fair
Ah right duckman, I remember when our union asked around the other unions who was going to join us to strengthen our fight and no one but the judges bothered, luckily for all concerned we still won
I’m a project manager for network rail. I started this position 1 year before C-19. The first year I had no performance review (terrible line manager) and was listed as developing in role. We then went into pay freeze during lock down and a re-organisation. This year the Unions and NWR agreed a pay rise for my band of 4%, which I was happy with. And then I discovered that NWR has also increased the starting salary for Project Managers by 4%. So I am still on the absolute starting salary after 4 years experience and 4 years of receiving ‘exceeded’ performance reviews. That was a kick in the nuts.
Any form of progression was removed in our organisation a few years ago. 15yr time served PM's are training new starters on our processes, everyone is on the same salary.
Tellingly, there is a memo from our brand new minister asking us which projects can be accelerated by removing blockers and bringing in external resources.
The transfer of expenditure from staff to consultants has been steady but relentless over the last decade. You soon get to know you who has the ear of the ministers. The whole programme will be privately managed soon.
pictonroad the only thing Alan Lovell seems good at is either bankrupting companies or breaking them up.
update: They've started this year's negotiations early, following strikes in the Autumn, and made an offer for this year already. I’m in Higher Education (professional services rather than academic):
2020: 0%
2021: 1%
2022: 3%
2023: 5%
The union are keen to point out that as RPI was 13.4% last month, the last two years will mark the biggest ever real-terms cut. Adjusted for inflation, I'm earning less than I did in 2015, when I was in a lower pay grade. Sigh. They're balloting next week. Not sure how to vote.
They’re balloting next week. Not sure how to vote.
Well, if you want to give your union ANY kind of leverage in negotiation, there’s only one way to vote. On the other hand, if you’re satisfied with the pay deal and feel that it’s fair and reasonable, then vote no.
I honestly can’t understand why sometimes would consider not voting for action when they are being truly done over. It just gives implicit permission for further and more severe doings over in the coming years.
Honestly, you deserve better.
The union are keen to point out that as RPI was 13.4% last month, the last two years will mark the biggest ever real-terms cut.
Whilst that is technically true and makes a good soundbite, there's a bit of me always wondering what the unions are realistically expecting? I've not heard of anyone*, public or private sector getting anything like 13.4% as cost of living increases. Whilst its true then to describe these things as real terms cuts, its also a bit misleading, if average wages in general are not rising by 13.4%.
Don't get me wrong I've a lot of sympathy for staff striking in public sector roles where essentially the government is the monopoly employer. BUT if I've done my sums right, if you strike for a day you don't get paid for that day, so every day you strike for costs you 0.4% of your salary? I realise its a bit more complicated than that (and its often not just about £), but crudely if you are being offered X% and go on strike for a week then if you are offered X+2% you are no better off than before are you, at least for this year?
* averaged across all roles - there are individual roles/grades that might be getting double digit rises.
I'm not voting to strike primarily for more money, I just want nursing to be a job that attracts people in future.
Why is it only banking and the like where you 'have to pay to attract talent'
sweepy - because if you weren't incentivising people into banking with money you might end up with caring, compassionate individuals instead? 😉
Its interesting - if you were in the corporate meetings about pay, you'll find they are trying to find ways to keep pay low by being employers people want to work for which are not about £. That might be culture, perceived ethos, nature of the products etc. i.e. its easier to get people to work for a company that seems to be doing good than one which seems to be evil. I'm not going to suggest that nurses don't deserve to be paid well to attract or retain talent because their true reward is from the patient care or any bullshit like that. But there are things which employers can do which mean even if you are paid shit people will come/feel valued/stay. Some of them are really difficult to do and involve culture and management styles etc - but others, like having a decent well-stocked canteen serving hot food regardless of your shift, making sure your staff get and can take their breaks somewhere reasonably nice, actually cost a fraction of what an extra 0.5% pay rise would cost.
Vote for strike. I'd say. Strengthens the unions hand in negotiation. Depending on union and numbers there may be strike pay if you have to picket or hardship funds.
I have been in my role 22 years and been in strike for 2 days both in the past couple of months. Gone from blasé about unions, to needing support in a grievance, to just this week becoming a rep. From what I've seen negotiations do not happen with good faith.
If COSLA had returned to negotiation with 5% last February then Scottish teachers would not be striking. But the came back with a low ball offer, then stopped negotiating, then current cost of living. So now that5% is not as good as it first seemed. '22 pay still in dispute '23 will be due for submission in a few weeks. The back pay will be a killer
Poly- you are right but those things dont get done, I used to be proud of my work and felt valued but now weve been run down to the point we cant do a good job, and breaks are a rarity, a staff room a dream and a well stocked canteen open over shifts is an unimaginable concept. Its not the pure money that makes me want to quit, thats just one way we are being ground down.
I’ve not heard of anyone*, public or private sector getting anything like 13.4% as cost of living increases
A friend works in "the city" for a US bank. They all got a 10% cost of living pay rise, independent of any other rises, less than a year ago.
The same friend was then talking about how "we can't all carry on getting 10% pay rises every year or we'll get a wage/price spiral". I did point out that we haven't "all" been getting 10% payrises!
if you were in the corporate meetings about pay, you’ll find they are trying to find ways to keep pay low by being employers people want to work for which are not about £
.