[Closed] PSA: Countryfile, Sunday night - Peaks/Wheelchair access

Outmaneouvred. Game set and match to DCC.

Deffo watching. Although not a wheel chair user, there are some footpaths which you can't push a buggy along either - and I bought one of these big wheeled things to do just that.

I'm not making any presumptions that anybody wants to ruin trails for mtb'ers.

I pity anyone who is wheelchair bound but surely they should accept that there are certain things they'll never be able to do and certain places they'll never be able to go.

its not an either/or issue
more access for wheel chair users
more access for mountain bikes
why mutually exclusive?

fighting over crumbs

They will want to get wheelchairs up E1 rock climbs next

Careful not to twist the issues. The mountain bike grumble isn't one of access, it's one of over sanitisation. The rushup edge thread has some considerable detail on this. It seems dcc ROW office Peter white has a personal vendetta against cyclists and isn't above playing the disabled access card just to spite us.

No one is against disabled access but no one can see the justification in flattening a historic and exciting trail to create something suitable for disabled users that doesn't link up to anything at all.

Trails for all doesn't have to mean all trails the (flat, smooth) same.

I suspect this might be more to do with something like the tramper or terrain hopper buggies than trail sanitisation,

The mountain bike grumble isn't one of access, it's one of over sanitisation

No it's not it's about a council running roughshod over user groups, failing to consult properly and using inappropriate methods and materials in a national park
Sanitise all they like, it's not ideal for us bikers but if they do it properly and it's for the best sustainable long term management of the tracks I would have little grumbles about it
Problem is the work DCC have done recently (not just at Rushup) is neither done properly or sustainable and in some parts positively dangerous

This guy doesn't appear to need ultra smooth terrain to get about. I met him near Kettlewell with two others walking. He'd come over Cam Head from Starbotton
[img][url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/11607911234_51c5e39b8c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/11607911234_51c5e39b8c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/iFKzAA ][/url] [/img]

Looking back down his route from Cam Head. Slightly steeper out of Starbotton.
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4130/5175588389_2a1e038b03.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4130/5175588389_2a1e038b03.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/8Tmf7z ][/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/30930594@N04/ ]Pennine[/url] [/img]

Seems to me that some of this is about some user groups having a sense of entitlement. Bit like ramblers on footpaths, drivers on roads.... 😐

ISTR TG (back in the days when it was still worth watching 😉 ) did a feature showing that the countryside doesn't need doing anything to it to make it accessible to wheelchair users.

+1 MoreCash..

MCTD, have you seen what rushup edge was for as long as anyone can remember and what it is now?

The issue isn't about entitlement. It's about something that hasn't Changed significantly for the 25 years I've been riding it being levelled so that a very small group can in theory come to use a trail that links to nothing else and doesn't have a car park at either end.

The logistics of getting a wheel chair to it now just don't make sense.

But it is really that wrong that mountain bikers want some challenging natural trails left in their normal state? The pdnp is covered in a huge number of trails to suit a great many levels for a wide range of user groups. Why should something be taken from the highest level a have public money wasted bringing it down to the lowest?

Has nobody else bothered to google?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05t25rg

Doesn't look like much about sanitising there, but don't let me stop you finding your pitchforks and flaming torches.

I've worked closely with the group that are going to be feature, trust me, they don't want to ride on resurfaced tracks as much as we don't (with a slight adjustment of horizons)! They use mountain trikes, a chain driven, off-road capable wheelchair with 3 monarch shocks, and hydrualic disc brakes. I've done a lot of route recceing with their main guide, including riding the bottom end of Cut Gate Path on the Langsett Side - we both enjoyed it! Check out Experience Community on Facebook for some photos etc. and this You Tube link

for some video from Oakwell Hall in Kirklees

Cleanerbybike, that's great to hear, but has anyone told Peter White at dcc?

I've no idea and why would there be a need to? EC are certainly in close contact with the Yorkshire Dales NP to the point where the NP are actually funding some kit and some try out days (up at Bolton Abbey next weekend if you wanted to check them out first hand).

The "need to" is that after the last time he tried forcing through his own personal plans for the pdnp, public opinion exploded in his face. Peter White is now trying to play the " disabled access" card to push these plans through despite massive public outcry and what appears to be zero support.

Are you suggesting it would be good for Experience Community to speak to Peter White acting as the conduit between disabled people wanting to access the PDNP and DCC?

Probably best to have a chat with the guys at [url=peakdistrictmtb.org]pdmtb[/url] who are fighting a coordinated front on this battle with dcc. From what you've said, there are even more people who will lose out when dcc have flattened the entire peak district.

The pdnp is covered in a huge number of trails to suit a great many levels for a wide range of user groups.

?

there are a few trails suitable for experienced mtb'ers, there's really very little for beginners, or people just looking for an easy off-road pootle.

I disagree. I've introduced a good number of people to riding in the peak district. There's monsal trail to cave Dale and everything between.

But even if that's nothing the case, how is it fair to take trails from one level of rider to gift them to another level of rider. That's not fair either way around.

there are a few trails suitable for experienced mtb'ers, there's really very little for beginners, or people just looking for an easy off-road pootle.

What about the meander round the reservoirs at Ladybower? Or the Longdendale / Sett Valley / High Peak / Tissington / Monsal trails? The Broken Road on Mam Tor? I'd have classed all those as easy.

And how about people stop pre-judging a programme that hasn't even been screened yet and trying to write it into a pre-determined narrative about Rushup Edge and sanitised trails?

Onzadog - I've just emailed my contact with Experience Community (you'll see him om the tele tomorrow, he'll be the guy with the long hair trying to steal Craven's job) and made him aware of this thread.

Thanks cleanerbybike (edited, sorry), much appreciated. I'm probably guilty of steering this thread away from the original comments about the program, which I will be watching with interest.

The Rushup Edge issue is a matter of great concern to many. I'd love to say it's the thin end of the wedge but a lot of classic trails have already been stripped of interest for many. The more fronts we can unite the better. Thank you.

... ahem cleanerbybike most definitely not cleanerbycar ...

If anyone can get up to Bolton Abbey next weekend I think you'd be pretty impressed with the mountain trike, and just what it's capable of in the right hands (not my hands obviously, I'm crap)

But far for me but if any of this kit gets demoed in the peak, I'd be really interested to get a closer look.

BadlyWiredDog - Member
there are a few trails suitable for experienced mtb'ers, there's really very little for beginners, or people just looking for an easy off-road pootle.
What about the meander round the reservoirs at Ladybower? Or the Longdendale / Sett Valley / High Peak / Tissington / Monsal trails? The Broken Road on Mam Tor? I'd have classed all those as easy.

1 decent loop, a few stretches of old railway, and a road to nowhere that the council has given up on. All of them requiring a drive to access.

Hardly a 'huge amount for all levels'.

There'll be a lot less if Peter White/dcc are allowed to run amok unchallenged.

Besides, I'm sure BWD will agree, that's not a definitive list.

1. This is not about Rushup. Don't conflate the two.
2. Nowt to do with Mighty White from what we understand
3. We're not panicking.

Pook, from the way I'm reading the comments from clearbybike, they're more ally than adversary. They might actually help know the wind out of mighty whitey's sales when he tries playing the access for all card.

That's our understanding too 🙂

We've made contact with Craig Grimes, the guy on a mountain trike from Countryfile. He's ace. He's in agreement with our outlook on trails, and sounds like he has great fun trying to conquer some pretty tough stuff.

If anyone is interested, they are doing a rambler from the Longshaw estate on May the 17th. They are looking for abled bodied volunteers to go out with them to help out. Let me know if you are interested.

The more people we speak to, the more apparent it is that this is a battle between DCC and all outdoor users. Whilst there are differing priorities (as there are within mountain biking too) the whole point of getting out into the outdoors is to have fun, and have an adventure and whilst this might require some compromise, it's definitely achievable.

Check out their mountain trikes.
http://www.mountaintrike.com/product/mountain-trike/

Whoops. They aren't "doing a rambler", they are doing a [u]ramble[/u].

Queue wild images of a hoard of wheelchairs chasing after some old guy in red socks with pitchforks.

Check these out. No need to sanitise the trails at all other than the occasional gate instead of styles

http://www.moltenrock.co.uk/

I was in one for a few months and it was great on the gravity track at Avon Tyrrell and easy to drive through the woods
[img] [/img]

Is the old guy in red socks Peter White? 😈

Why don't they remove all the plants so that Hay fever sufferers can go up there too.

Vermillon - instead of 'pitying' the poor wheelchair users, maybe you'd better trying to understand the needs of others. People don't need your pity, just a bit of understanding.

The DR group that 'Mighty White'(that has amused me no end) brought to the table had never travelled Rushup Edge before MW invited them, they were then insisting that, as it is designated a byway, it should be maintained to byway standards and nothing less. By slapping a TRO on it, DCC's rationale for maintaining it to a Byway standard is somewhat diminished but I sense that MW now sees this as a personal crusade rather than wanting to find a sensible solution for all user groups. They do seem to operate in a single issue/project method rather than any holistic approach.
Anyhoo - it's great to find more people who are more closely allied to us than MW.

My favourite downhill got sanitised a few years back.
It's now lost its loose gravel surface and is getting back to a decent track even with the water groove down the middle of it.
This groove will only get bigger as it is now the natural line to follow.
So it's gone from a hard wearing flinty track to a potential pain in the arse for the council. In that they will need to keep resurfacing it all the time Robby Rambler wants to keep his boots clean.
Do the councils factor in the maintenance that will be needed to keep the trails smooth?
It's like painting the outside of your house. Once you do it you are committed to painting it forever.

@zippykona - no is the simple answer. DCC advised that they have no plan or funding allocated to maintenance.