9.00pm BBC 2
His previous war documentaries have been really good
Cool,
Despite his oafish top gear presenter style, his documentary presenter style is top notch.
Agreed
Tick
Cheers, timely reminder.
Is Sigourney Weaver in it?
The one he did on Arnhem was very good, the family connection added to it as well.
I just assumed it was a repeat?
His one about St Nazaire was good too.
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nazaire_Raid ]St Nazaire Raid[/url]
SKY+ set.
[quoteHis one about St Nazaire was good too.
absolutely. The sub story of Sgt Durrant is a great one.
Hopefully it's the absolutely ridiculously bonkers raid on st nazaire. I still can't believe it's a true story.
EDIT: LOL
Bumpage
What a fantastic programme.
Very moving.
Fantastic stuff.
That was excellent 🙂
The old commander still in tears over leaving the convoy, im in tears wTching
dusty in here... respect to all
That was well worth watching thanks for the reminder
JEngledow - MemberThat was well worth watching thanks for the reminder
I'll get it on catch up tomorrow, Ta
Yep enjoyed it here too. Despite reading lots about the wars, I am still learning.
What a desperate tale well retold.
On a side note, what is going on with Clarkson's knees?
Was good, will rewatch when kids are not running rough screaming as only heard every other word.
Kinda puts a lot of our modern "problems" into sharp focus doesn't it.
Incredible to think that those normal men and women stood up to the mark, and just got on with it. A time when perhaps being brave was almost the norm, i can't quite imagine the same reaction today somehow.
As the years tick by, not only do we forget past events, but as the end credits showed, we are very close to loosing the finaly few first hand connections to those events. Important then to make documentaries like these to capture those events for history as told by the actual people who experienced them.
Bloody brilliant that, totally enjoyed watching and learning and feeling for those sailors... However I do feel a bit sorrowful 😐
Fantastic. Clarkson is a different person when he does his war documentries, I'm well over Top Gear Clarkson but War Story Teller Clarkson has me rivetted. I swear, my heart actually sank when they ordered the cruiser force away, if you saw it in a film you'd say it was made up. Must look up the Nazaire raid one...
Reminded me of reading HMS Ulysses more than 30 years ago. Alistair MacLean served on 2 arctic convoys and although fiction it gives some insight into just how harsh the conditions were even before you were bombed and torpedoed.
A humbling story when hardship these days in no 3G coverage. Very brave men. Clarkson adds a good bit of drama and respect to his war stuff. Well done.
24 ships lost and 153 men - I expected more men?
Definitely makes you appreciate what you have. It must have felt so desperate out there. Really humbling stuff.
Merchant crews were smaller - no guns
That was really rather good. A really moving tale, well told, and good use of being 'in situ' to add some flavour to what it must really have been like out there, even though I don't think anything could really tell the real story of what it must have been out in that water.
Aside from the story itself, that ship doing a 'handbrake' turn was pretty bloody impressive as well!
i expected more men
My Dad was in the MN (RFA actually) in the 50's and what you have to remember is they were cargo ships, not warships. Beyond a crew to make it actually go - engineers, stokers, officers to command and navigate and a small crew to keep them fed and watered, there were no human cargoes. I guess the only blessing of PQ17 and the like was that they weren't carrying troops, if you compare for example to the secondment of the Canberra and the QEII in the Falklands.
My and Brant's grandfather was on PQ16. They were short of food because PQ17 was supposed to bring it . . .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/75/a8249475.shtml
My Uncle George did a few North Atlantic convoy escorts in the RN. Never did get to talk to him about it, wish I had now. 😥
My grandfather was stationed at Scapa Flow for a lot of WWII on board [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Manchester_%2815%29 ]HMS Manchester[/url]. He was taken off Manchester when it got sent to the Med - it ended up torpedoed. My grandfather stayed in Scapa on a variety of smaller ships.
Fascinating programme - when Clarkson puts away his Top Gear persona and does history, he is brilliant.
Our grandad was ace.
The seven Hurricane aircraft wrecked by the bomb in No. 1 hold had been in large wooden cases secured by straps made of 2" x ¼” steel strip. Whilst hanging about in Murmansk, out of these strips I made brackets to secure the fractured top halves of the bearings in their former position and thus ensure the shaft lubrication for the return run. They worked well for the run across to Archangel.
That's the sort of thing my dad did on his RFA tankers, fashioning repair parts out of odds and sods to be able to limp it to port and get them repaired properly. Proper engineering, not pictures on computers.
24 ships lost and 153 men - I expected more men?
MN ships will have smaller crews, although much bigger then compared to now. Probably about 25.
I would guess that so many survived because they were relatively close to land and although hardly topical it was July, so not the ice covered seas as in the TV show.
That's the sort of thing my dad did on his RFA tankers, fashioning repair parts out of odds and sods to be able to limp it to port and get them repaired properly. Proper engineering, not pictures on computers
Careful? Some bellend will probably be along shortly claiming that your dad isn't a "proper" engineer because he didn't do a few years at a cushty university.....
It wasn't just the weather, the cold and the possibility of being killed by enemy action; life was uncomfortable and miserable at the best of times. I have my Grandad's diary from his time between 1917 and 1919 in HMS Southampton, a light cruiser on convoy protection duty in the north Atlantic. He didn't see much action but makes frequent mention of coaling ship ("filthy, backbreaking work") and even kept a record of the tonnage of coal consumed and nautical miles steamed. He also makes references to "my darling Bunty", who he missed badly and later married.
Sadly he was demobbed just before the scuttling of the German fleet in Scapa Flow so he missed that event. He did witness the explosion of HMS Vanguard in July 1917 in Scapa Flow.
I once saw footage of a munitions ship vaporising. Literally like a small nuclear bomb. Apparently nowt left- no flotsam nothing. Scary stuff 🙁
Was a fantastic story and having met Clarkson at the TG studios, he talks in the same way as he did on the filming last night and 'is' a very approachable and pleasant person in the same way as Hammond and May are. The TG side is just boys playing.
My grandfather was based off Ramsgate in an MTB boat and was on the lookout for the U boats. He was awarded for bravery, when they lost the rudders on the boat and they knew a U boat was around them. They were sitting ducks. He laid across 2 hot engines and steered the boat until they found and sank the U boat. He was a very hurt man until he died, with the friends and comrades he lost in war. He would never forgive.
Pound was known to be suffering with a brain tumour yet was still given the decision re ordering the convoy to continue or not. IIRC such tumours can cause strange/out-of-character behaviour therefore his "frailty" should have been called into account and the decision granted to someone else. He died the following year (because of his tumour) did he not?
* Naturally I wasn't there so this is only supposition.
I think you're right about the strange or out of character behaviour, but I don't know if that was known in 1942. Or if it was, what mechanism (if any) there was to monitor or remove people in that position.
I was also fascinated by the Tirpitz. Why wasn't it at sea if it could cause that much of a problem to these convoys and was basically impervious to the escorts? Then I googled it, and it seems it was never properly used in anger, was disabled by minisubs and was sunk by airborne bombing. Seems it wasn't as untouchable as was made out, and makes the decision to send the escorts home even stranger.
