Because of this thread I watched Altered Carbon. Bottle of Jägermeister, take a shot every time they plagiarise a sci-fi or cop drama cliché. You'll need a large bottle or two.
Actually there seem to be quite a few sci-fi start ups on Netflickers written by people who have nothing to add to the tradition. Sad.
Going to see how it goes - watched episode 2 whilst on the turbo. Too many boobs to watch when the kids are about. The level of boobs isn't needed at all.
I'm actually just watching the Cloverleaf Paradox - Netflix film - just came up on my recommendations.
It’s ‘Ok’ fossy just Ok as in it fills an hour and half.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; background-color: #eeeeee;">Actually there seem to be quite a few sci-fi start ups on Netflickers written by people who have nothing to add to the tradition. Sad.</span>
You do realise that it's adapted from one of the most well regarded Sci-fi books of recent times right? Not arguing that it's a good series, but the source material is excellent. I'm disappointed in how it's been adapted, but the book trilogy definitely adds to the sci-fi tradition, whatever that's supposed to mean 😕
Well, five episodes in and they appear to have set fire to the source material and decided to turn it in to a piss poor martial arts / soap opera crossover. Why does this always happen? Just stick with the book, hire actual actors and it would all be good 🙁
I watched the first episode last night and I thought it was fine actually. I haven't read the books and have nothing invested in it....nicely shot, competently acted, good VFX apart from the bit with the car above the clouds. Any clunky dialogue seems directly as a result of using terms which I assume are grounded in the books which probably seem fine in print but don't roll off the tongue.
It's not GREAT tv but it's not awful with a glass of something and a curry if you're working or what have you.
Finished it now, was alright, would probably give it an overall 6/10. They could have probably done it in 6 episodes, alot of potential in it I think, but they would have needed better scriptwriters and better casting.
I agree with the plagerised comments, lots of too obvious, influences.
onto cloverfield now, first 10 minutes, interested.
Last read the book about 15yrs ago - when it first came out on paperback, so my memory of it is hazy. But I'm really enjoying the series - currently on ep8. It retains the feel of the book whilst being a good (proper) sifi pop TV soap.
Loving the visuals, OK the acting isn't great but neither is the character portrayal in the book iirc - it was Richard Morgans first after all. Even the characters in his later fantasy stuff are a bit lacking.
Loved the books so I'll probably give this ago once I'm done with the expanse (season 1 is staying pretty dam close to the books so far).
The Expanse kind of works
Yep and to be fair this was one of the cases I saw the screen version before reading the books... having read the books I do kinda think some of the changes to the plot in the screen version were unnecessary.
All those who say it's ripping stuff off or unoriginal, what exactly are you looking for? Because there are always going to be similarities to something if you look for them, the alternative being Dadaism. Every time someone comes out with that Amazon 1 star review grade nonsense this springs to mind...
We stick to a basic approach, raps over loops
But some people try to get cute and say that's been done before
It's not innovative, well then riddle me this
To be considered creative, by that logic i'm forced to invent
A new form of music which i must present
But i already gotta a type of music that i like
It's called rockin mics
And before i leave in pursuit of alternate career paths
I'd like to master this craft
I bring innovation through my level of skill
Still sceptical, well i expect that you'll
Redirect your perspective and chill
Why don't you chew on this, cuz it's been done i shouldn't be doin this
That's like sayin coltrane was at fault bro
Cuz charlie parker already played the alto
And since shakespeare wrote plays
I guess beckett shouldn't of had his say
And cuz gandhi took a non violent approach
Luther king junior should be reproached
For adopting the same ideology, obviously no
And the fact my philosophy is ...?
To direct your progression, and that's a statement, not a question
If you think you can do any better batter in.
Watched the first episode last night, definitely wooden lead but can live with that, beat the snot out the Chelsea Perreti "special" we gave up on a couple of nights ago. Bugger me Netflix has some guff.
Northwind - I'm not saying The Culture couldn't work at all but it would take some good writing to get around some of the translations from page to screen and sadly I'd be more worried about it being butchered. The usual Banks-esque jumping about would probably be too much for most people so the poor dears would have to focus on the fact sentient robots and ships have been done before. And lets not even go near the *whispers* S.E.X.
@ FunkmasterP - My comment wasn't meant to be quite as snarky as it reads, it reflects my conviction that challenging fiction, not only sci-fi, is no longer being published due to the fact that it is more of a financial risk - a more complicated or unfamilar text will take longer to sell, if it sells at all. But the discussion was about the adaptation, not the source material, adaptations tend to be based on popular books. I don't see how something so utterly derivative (Netflickers version) can be based on novel ideas, perhaps the original books were well regarded, it's a murder mystery set in the future played out by cut-and-paste sci-fi tropes from what I can see. Popular books, serialised books in particular, are rarely nuanced and alien in the way that interests me. *cancels netflickers before end of free trial*
Squirrelking sed: All those who say it’s ripping stuff off or unoriginal, what exactly are you looking for? Because there are always going to be similarities to something if you look for them, the alternative being Dadaism.
Well I've read pretty much everything JG Ballard wrote (edit published) and I'm convinced that the influence he acknowledged from the Surrealists made for far more interesting sci-fi than anything I can find being published at the moment. My problem isn't with stuff like AC being published/adapted/popular etc, it's the way popularism pushes more complex writing off the publishing schedules - perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places, Netflickers was never going to go obscure, but when you hear all this hype about the Big New Sci-Fi That You'd Never Imagine and it turns out to be so cliché, so derivative... it just leaves me wondering whether people know what they're talking about.
Wordnumb - Have you read the trilogy? If you have then fair enough. If not, you can't really judge it based on an appalling adaption that ignores a lot of the book and replaces it with the usual soap opera and love story bollocks
That's not entirely true, it's reasonable to assume the adaptation follows the book to some extent, and hard to imagine there could be anything notable in the text that the producers decided to leave out. Downloading consciousness into different bodies is hardly a new idea, the rest appeared to be superhero tosh with a little petulant angst and boobs.
🤔 If we're going to lambast a sci fi series or film for lack of originality can we start with Star Wars ?
Yep, you've not read it then. 😉 shifty series does it a disservice. What, other than Ballard, do you consider good sci-fi then?
I'm watching it and enjoying it. Not read the books so just enjoying it for what it is.
FunkmasterP sed: What, other than Ballard, do you consider good sci-fi then?
I'd like to see someone adapt Lem's [i]Fiasco[/i] for the screen, perfect combination of unsettling plot and stuff blowing up. I tend to prefer authors who aren't seen exclusively as writers of sci-fi, Burroughs or Krzhizhanovsky for example, but for a traditional sci-fi story [i]Fiasco[/i] is the bomb. I will check out AC however, if the library has it, always happy to be proven wrong. Very much open to recommendations.
I just finished it and I liked it. Initially I was dissapointed but it grew on me.
People have complained that the lead was wooden, but Morgan's Kovacs didn't exactly wear his heart on his sleeve, either. Also Blade runner plagerism - I found the future setting entirely believable.
There was an element of plot dumbing down but to get the financing for such extravagent sfx you have to appeal to a wider audience. And the effects <span style="text-decoration: underline;">were</span> good.
The supporting cast were also good, the hotel particularly so. The fight scenes worked out and the overall mood stayed true to the book. At the end of the day it was a Phillipe Marlowe style detective story set in the future. (I'm not sure if the naming of the Falconer character was a nod to William Faulkner).
I'm looking forward to Broken Angels because spaceships.
I agree eulach, enjoyed it too. Gruesome possibilities. I read the books years ago so had mostly forgotten what happened. Might have to reread. They were a different type of sci-fi to what I had read before, hadn't read any sci-fi with as much violence (and had never really been a comic book fan).
I watched the whole series of Altered Carbon over 4 days and thought it was very good. Quite a complicated storyline so you need to pay attention , but cleverly done. Blade Runner certainly gets a nod in terms of the plot and futuristic cities, but I thought the computer aided graphics were excellent.
Not read the books so I've enjoyed it. I find whenever you read the book first the film or series will always be inferior because firstly its not possible to include all the detail of a written text in film and secondly no screen adaptation will ever live up to the power of your own imagination and how could it match every individuals interuoptation. I do dislike the main lead house of cards guy though. He's rather dull. Really like the woman cop and the 'hotel' though.
Just watched ep1. Liked it enough to to watch the rest, but in the name of all that is holy why did none of you twonks mention that Dichan Lachman is involved, even if only as a flashback. Grrrr.
Blade Runner certainly gets a nod in terms of the plot and futuristic cities
I thought they used the old set! Enjoying it though
I simply enjoyed it. Bit caught out by the nudity at first but it was relevant and not salacious.
It was always a detective story in space.
I liked it, 8/10. Hard boiled, noir, and sci fi are favourite genres of mine and this was a mash up of them all. Haven’t read the books, might give them a try as a result of having watched - usually better done that way round imo 😄. Thought the acting wasn’t too bad, particularly compared with the expanse which had some terrible acting (though I still enjoyed it). Apart from Dichen Lachman that is, she was awful.
I liked it too and will be looking for the books on Kindle (hint, hint 😀 )
I especially enjoyed Martha Higareda...
It was tolerable, could have been excellent but was just tolerable. Less tits and arse than I expected from the complaints above. James Purefoy was annoying, he's done much better work. The rest of the cast seemed fine. The characters were fairly cartoonish and not well developed, so the acting reflected that. Would have been better as six episodes though. It was really obvious that they were stringing the audience along about who the real killer was, so anyone who became a suspect could automatically be eliminated. The backstory stuff about the sister and the training camp was way too long and should have been drastically condensed, it just felt like they were filling in a couple of episodes to meet contract.
The backstory stuff about the sister and the training camp was way too long and should have been drastically condensed, it just felt like they were filling in a couple of episodes to meet contract.
None of that in the book. The Envoy Corps is part of the Protectorate and he leaves when a botched operation sees most of his colleagues killed by a viral strike. One of them, who gouged his own eyes out, kind of becomes part of his conscience in the book.
The first book is very different from the following two. All are worth a read though. I re-read Altered Carbon after watching the series and have now almost finished Broken Angels again.
I think I've dodged a few spoilers and as long as no-one tells me who Luke Skywalker's dad is then I'll be fine
Goddamnit. Wrote a long waffly post about this and got Error: Are you sure you wanted to do that?
I'd read the books a while back, and generally enjoyed this. Much like Funk I've been re-reading the books since watching the series and I think the series hold up pretty well.
Regurgitating my lost post: I'm half way through and still enjoying it but it's far from perfect. It's visually lovely, very well shot. It's obviously referencing fim noir quite heavily and the aesthetic is appropriate for that. It's not particularly original but then not much is, and it has to be plausible.
I think Joel Kinnaman is doing a fine job, he's a solid actor and I think as the series progresses he's getting into the character. A lot of the criticisms I see directed at him are imo more a result of clunky dialogue and/or him not having much to do apart from sneer and smoke fags. A role like Poe/The Hotel is a gift for an actor becuase they're playing a charicature - they can ham it up as much as they want and who's to say where the limit is for an insane humanoid ai that's supposed to be a long dead writer?
Downsides, James Purefoy is pretty bad in it. I think he's capable of much more but again this could be down to lack of clear direction. I think the plot is too convoluted and somewhat muddled. It's not clear what an Envoy is or what the extent of their abilities is, and combined with his bio engineered and upgraded sleeve Kovak might as well be superhuman. It's not clear how much of his skill or toughness is down to his mind or the body he's in and he's all but superhuman until the plot requires him to be slow or weak.
I have a problem with the timescale too - it seems like a plausible 50 - 100 years in the future not 350, and it seems very odd that Kovak has intimate knowledge of current technology when he's been asleep for 100+ years. Also smoking cigarettes is laughable, we already have a futuristic supersedence for that and they are obviously smoking as a nod to noir - it's incongruous to say the least.
It's still watchable, and good pulpy fun in places. I'm wavering somewhere between a 6 or 7 out of 10 depending on how it goes.
It’s still watchable, and good pulpy fun in places. I’m wavering somewhere between a 6 or 7 out of 10 depending on how it goes.
Aye,it was fine for a snowy afternoon yesterday,so I finished it.
I would give it a 7-8 as it reminded me of some Ian Bank's story lines.
Found the first few episodes difficult to follow, stuck with it because of the visuals. By 5 things started to fall in to place, the flashbacks helped, the mumbling didn't. Boob count seemed to become exponential.
Certainly worth seeing through. Only bit that still confuses is why Kovac kept talking about being someone's mother?
Only bit that still confuses is why Kovac kept talking about being someone’s mother?
He's just lying to gain the trust of the prostitute he was questioning. He was claiming to be the dead girl's mother who's renting that sleeve or whatever. It did seemed rushed because he didn't need to do any research or establish any facts about the girl's mother to support his ruse, or let the audience know. Or perhaps he did and I missed it.
Boob count seemed to become exponential.
So by the next series it'll just be constant boob? I get your point though, I am undecided about the sex and violence because well, I like sex and violence. I think almost any amount of either is acceptable in an adult drama so long as it's contextually relevant / not gratuitous and I think one or two shots in Altered Carbon seemed to be added purely for the sake of it.
Just finished it today and quite enjoyed it. Only thing which struck me was that for a virtually unkillable Envoy, he seemed to loose a lot of fights and need rescuing a lot.
Not impressed... might have been better had I read the books first.
Nights Dawn trilogy would work. Practically a 3 season screenplay already.
The Reality Dysfunction is a 3 season screenplay (at least) by itself... to do it any justice.
Started watching this on the train this morning. First scene isn’t ideal when you’re on a packed train…
I was watching Episode three on a flight.... I know what you mean 😀
I quite enjoyed the Altered Carbon series so read the books afterwards - and they're pretty good.
Is the Nights Dawn trilogy any good? I recently read a couple of the Mandel books and was instantly transported, not into the future but back to the 80's
I read the Nights Dawn trilogy in the early to mid noughties I think. Enjoyed all three books enough to want more. Given they total over 3600 pages that either says something about the books or me. Went on to read the Void trilogy. Maybe have a quick scan of the wikipedia page for it and forget any spoilers it contains.