[Closed] Proud to be English?

I'm not even all that proud of being human.

Yep, I'm with you on that one. Definitely not proud to be English/British. I had nothing to do with, just chance. I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

Orwell made a good contrast between Nationalism and Patriotism.

Nationalism is inseparable from the desire for power. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally.

teamhurtmore - Member

We even celebrate it down here - reeling until the early hours.

I think maybe that's the definition of a ropey national day- one that gets celebrated more elsewhere than it does at home 😆 There's events, and that, especially for the older folks. I doubt most people my age even know the date.

Sandwich - Member
Boudicca Day I could get behind. A quick trip to Colchester for a spot of cleansing and big knives on the Nissan. What's not to like?

Although seeing as Boudicca was Celtic, and possibly fictional, this may not be the greatest replacement for the Turkish fictional character, in terms of relevance to the modern English? 😉

I'm pretty sure Bill Bryson meant Britain, on account of how it says Britain.

I doubt most people my age even know the date.

But its a public holiday.

same issue for Scotland, I daily get told that Scots will only buy from Scots by Scots.

Really? I've never heard that.

It's a funny thing - most people say they're proud to be x, but it's hard to pin down specifics. I'm the same - could come out with some stuff about Scottish mountains and scenery, but as peterfile says most Scots don't go anywhere near the mountains (and they're titchy mountains anyway). Could say something about Red Clydeside and Scots inventing the modern world, but that was a century or more ago and not really relevant to me. Really, it's daft wee things, like the Glaswegian reaction to a terrorist attack was to run over and put the boot in.

It's retro-justification - I like being Scottish, so I think of reasons why. The English/British are the same - there's lots of talk aout making immigrants take on British values, but try to pin those values down and it gets hard trying to find values that aren't shared with lots of other countries. It's being able to queue, and have a conversation about the weather, basically.

I'm proud to be Cumbrian, then British.

I view my nominal nationality more as a consequence of chance than any meaningful design

With that, I am more or less completely indifferent. My gut feeling is that any value placed in the meaning has more to do with the way people I care about, feel about their identity as relates to Englishness.

Last night of the proms shite can **** off.

Yep, I'm with you on that one. Definitely not proud to be English/British. I had nothing to do with, just chance. I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

Why's that then & what would you rather be if not English?

I'm not that proud to be human, wer'e the only species on the planet that can **** things up good & proper for everyone & every other species.

human, wer'e the only species on the planet that can **** things up good & proper for everyone & every other species.

The cyanobacteria did that when they got rid of most of the CO2 in the atmosphere and flooded it with oxygen.

Bastards, still haven't forgiven them for that.

I'm an interesting breed of French, Irish and English who migrated to Wales... Proud to be a European

The English/British are the same - there's lots of talk aout making immigrants take on British values, but try to pin those values down and it gets hard trying to find values that aren't shared with lots of other countries.

^^^ Johnny foreigner's OK if he answers to 'John' or a generic 'Abdul' or 'Bruce Lee'- type nickname, hangs out with football fans, drinks alcohol and isn't religious (excepting being Christian). All of which are Good English Virtues. If he violates the aforementioned or becomes uppity (ie listening to foreign music or having family abroad) the mateyness will stop right quick.

Although seeing as Boudicca was Celtic,

more likely a Briton and closely related to the Belgae

I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

I understand that. The thing is, if we don't go abroad, be proudly English (or British, I don't think the English particularly have a monopoly on being ****s above the Scots or Welsh) but in a reasonable way, then the only image we'll have abroad will be of thugs pushing a black man off a metro train.

I'm happy for anyone to know where I'm from, so they can see we aren't a nation of fat racists in football shirts (insert stereotype of your choice if you don't like mine)

And that's coming from a football fan, before it turns into an anti-football thing.

We have the best cake. That's just a fact.

My favourite cake is probably Victoria sponge. I grew up with it, it's comfort food. Is it the 'best cake' though? If best means favourite then I suppose every National cake is 'the best' to people who equate the 'best' with something from their country/childhood?

I might be over-egging it.

Just watched the penultimate Masterchef final BTW - seems the new Euro-standard of fine dining is a slice of buttery flesh skidded to a stop on a slick of snot. Gimme beef and carrots any day. I think.

I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

I think travel either brings out in us either the respectful human or the disrespectful xenophobe. If it's the former then hold your head high as you'll probably get a great reception in most places. It's those people from any country who arrive expecting the natives to look up to them (no matter how boorish they themselves are) that tend to receive the coolest treatment abroad. Likewise those who receive you as a stereotype before an individual are guilty of this in just the same way. I really do distrust Nationalism, this much is apparent. Luckily being a Brit we have the best patriots, with selfdeprectaing humour.

Cannot believe this, why cos someone Tweets Happy St George's day is the question asked about being Racist?

https://twitter.com/grantholt31/status/591181289845194752

Because the internet is full of reactionary idiots?

If we're talking English heritage then tomorrow's the day to raise a glass (or maybe ride your bike somewhere new......). Anniversary of the Kinder trespass, April 24th, 1932.

Harriet Harman proudly sporting a red rose on her lapel on QT tonight (BBC1 now)

Harriet Harman proudly sporting a red rose on her lapel on QT tonight (BBC1 now)

Bloody House of Lancaster!

teamhurtmore - Member
Harriet Harman proudly sporting a red rose on her lapel on QT tonight (BBC1 now)
POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

...as is Harriet

Yep I am. Proud of me Scottish granny and me Welsh grandad also. Take some pride in England, Scotland and Wales. Not sure about NI as never been. Overall we live in a great place but best of all you lucky people get to have a Britain that contains Yorkshire (for now).

Proud to be English would be like being proud of having brown hair* or something. It's not like I've exactly made an effort...

Being Yorkshire, on the other hand, is more of a profession and requires altogether more effort, so yes, very proud...

* Bad example. At my age I could probably be excused from being a little bit proud having hair full stop.

I’m proud of my country including the semi-autominous bits that make up the U.K. not a fan of regional chestbeating particularly from some areas used for filming hacneyed whimsical northern TV dramas of taciturn old men having jolly japes in wheelbarrows rolling down hills and pushing their place of birth as some kind of elevated status amongst their fellow countrymen with a sneer. it’s embarrassing to hear those boorish accents while travelling abroad and the child-like affectations that accompany comments about how ‘it’s nay like back ome’ etc.

Nowt wrong with Yorkshire. At least it keeps all the miserable, tightfisted bastards in one place.

Just spotted the mistake in the Bryson text.

It's the Chancellor in the Lords that sits on a wool sack...

It depends - when it comes to sport it's England (or England and Wales, UK, Britain and Ireland or Europe - depending on the sport...) I support and do enjoy success (was at final of Women's RWC last year)and feel pretty patriotic in that context.

I also have a real interest in English (NHS, Welfare etc) and UK politics (tax, defence etc)that goes beyond self interest. and find it disheartening when the mean spirited voices on the fringes (I'm looking at you UKIP) drag us away from what I see as our societal sense of fairness and equality. Similar with societal norms, I feel there is British sense of fairness and self deprecation that is something I relate too strongly.

So in that sense I am tied to my national identity. But I really would not be happy with the flag waving, oath of allegiance spouting US form of patriotism. Maybe it's because we are more secure in our identity that we don't need it?

I think that's a one dimensional way of looking at US identity. I also think that there is more of an ethos of social/national service (not only in the military sense) in the US than in the UK.

konabunny - Member
the red rose is (also) a symbol of social democratic/democratic socialist parties worldwide.

I have never heard that before, nor has anyone I have asked in the last day, although I'm sure you're right. I thought it was the Red Flag.

Certainly I never saw it used in Australia. I'm sure I'd have noticed because I would have been puzzled why they were using English symbols.

Up here it's taken as proof Labour is a wholly Anglocentric party, and folk wonder why "Scottish" Labour don't use a thistle.

Maybe Labour should re think its symbol. It is a bit like using a certain well known good luck symbol in the wrong place.

MrSmith - Member
there no need to have a go at those Cockerney's like that. It's regionism and narrow minded.

epicyclo - Member

Up here it's taken as proof Labour is a wholly Anglocentric party

I've honestly never heard that. I guess I can see why people would think it though

This sums it up for me. Mild swearing. NSFW

As Irish I'm always bemused by big displays of patriotism/nationalism or whatever, particualrly around sporting events. I find it even more bizarre when it becomes an issue of inter county or inter provincial pride. When I leave the country I feel differently, I'm glad that a we have a very positive reputation pretty much worldwide, and I'm proud to represent that. But in Ireland, surrounded by Irish people...competing to see who can be proudest. It just bemuses me.

konabunny - Member

I think that's a one dimensional way of looking at US identity. I also think that there is more of an ethos of social/national service (not only in the military sense) in the US than in the UK.

Fair enough - I suppose I meant the US media, and republican portrayed version of US patriotism. I've spent enough time in the US to know it as the most diverse place, in every sense, I've experienced.

On the sense of social service in the US - that may well be true - and I think it is an individual versus collective/state responsibility thing. Individual action - including socially beneficial activity - is a much stronger concept in US that here - whereas we still closer to the post-war consensus on welfare and healthcare collectivism.

Nowt wrong with Yorkshire. At least it keeps all the miserable, tightfisted bastards in one place.[/img]
Oh I think you'll find quite a lot of us have spread out to share our unique brand of "happiness" with those unlucky enough not to be Yorkshire.

 

the miserable, tightfisted bastards

pushing their place of birth as some kind of elevated status amongst their fellow countrymen

Ah, feeling quite proud. Like I say, it ain't easy 😀

On the sense of social service in the US - that may well be true - and I think it is an individual versus collective/state responsibility thing. Individual action - including socially beneficial activity - is a much stronger concept in US that here - whereas we still closer to the post-war consensus on welfare and healthcare collectivism.

Much higher percentage of the population being church going is a factor too.

Much higher percentage of the population being church going is a factor too

... now that is whole new discussion...!

Proud to be Lancastrian, English, British. I hate the fact that the fascists have commandeered the English flag. I can't see why we can't have some sort of celebration day, but the St George thing doesn't mean anything to me.
Britain may have done some fairly diabolical things in the past and probably still does now and then, but it's still a (relatively) safe, tolerant and caring society when compared to a lot of others out there. I even like Yorkshire.

I also think that there is more of an ethos of social/national service (not only in the military sense) in the US than in the UK.

The thing you have to remember about the US is that it was created and then had to be effectively 'marketed' to the old world - in some cases literally.

Also there's a bit of selection going on there too. From a typical old world impoverished family, those willing to leave for the New World could have been the ones romanticising the idea of something new, whereas their siblings in similar circumstances might be more attached to the old. So you'd end up with a population containing more people who are already pre-disposed to flag waving, and that would help foster the culture.

Not forgetting the practicalities of creating a new nation - after all, people had to be actively Americanized when they arrived. They were expected to forget their original nationality and fully become American, and no longer German or whatever. I suspect the cultural enthusiasm was fostered in order to make this stick. I've seen the idea referred to in a few modern films too.

Then there's the way that people try hard to justify their decisions - in the same way that people tend talk up the bike they've just bought on here to anyone who'll listen 🙂

"I have never heard that before, nor has anyone I have asked in the last day, although I'm sure you're right. I thought it was the Red Flag."

Red flag is a bit more commie. The red rise has been Labour's symbol since the 80s. I'm not suggesting btw that I was a universally recognized symbol - esp among English people.

[img] [/img]

They still sing "The Red Flag" at the end of every Labour Party Conference though. Tony Blair always seemed to have a particular problem with spitting out these words :

[b][i] Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.[/i][/b]

Although to be fair most Labour politicians probably do these days.

I'd agree with a lot of what's been said here.

National pride is a bit of a funny thing in England. We either get a bit embarrassed about it in case anyone thinks we're racist, or go OTT the other way. Far as I can tell, the traditional method of celebrating St George's Day seems to be to buy a red-and-white plastic bowler hat and go out for twelve pints and a fight.

I guess I'm proud to be English, though "grateful" is probably closer. I can't offhand think of many nations I'd rather have been born to; Canada or the US perhaps, or Australia looks pretty much like here only with nice weather. To be honest though, you're onto a winner with any English-speaking first-world country. But proud?

Actually, I probably am. The whole "Brits on the piss tour" export is shameful but rather than be embarrassed about it I try to do my bit for international relations when on holiday by proving to the locals that it's possible to be English and not be a monumental bell end.

We've a lot to be proud of, not least a sort of gently affable oddness that's pretty unique. Plenty of countries produce weapons-grade mentalists (I'm looking at you, America and Japan), but we do loveable eccentric like no-one else. And I quite like that. What other country would have come up with Marmite? France? I don't bloody think so.