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Hmm.
The original point about the protein:carbs 1:3 thing wasn't to get extra protein to build muscle, it was to increase uptake of the carbs, IIRC. In any case, I find recovery drinks extremely effective at eliminating post-ride munchies. If I don't have a shake, and simply eat real food, it takes longer for me to recover and during that time I'll continue to eat more.
My point is that it’s a missed chance to get some quality things into your body if you just reach for a shake.
The point about having a recovery shake is that it's in addition to your real quality food. You fuel whilst riding and afterwards, appropriately for your level of exertion, and then you eat properly healthy food (low-carb if you want to lose weight) at mealtimes. Low carb should substitute starch for vegetables, so you'll probably end up eating much more quality food this way than if you try and replenish carbs through normal meal choices.
I've lost 4kg since autumn whilst feeling much better and getting faster, because I went back to calculated fuelling whilst riding even if I thought I could do without it, because I realised that incurring too much energy debt whilst riding was causing too much physical stress.
From my experience Torq recovery is by far the best, most delicious (as long as you avoid chocolate) and most expensive, but I have made my own version of it based on the ingredients bought from Bulk Powders and it's pretty good and far cheaper. I never found SiS to be particularly effective, but it's been a while since I tried it.
i just wait for the offers then buy a couple of 5kg bags, lasts ages.
wow, just been looking to top up my supply. am i right its about double the price now??
looked in the usual places, myprotein, bulk, theproteinworks..... theyre all around £150ish for 2 X 5kg bags, and thats with a 40%ish discount, im used to paying around half that!
surely this isnt another result of the 'B' word?
I don't bother with them - just chicken or fish after the gym
Oh are we doing this again?
I've entered a triathlon. One of the problems with tri training is trying to fit all the sports into your training. For the last few weeks I've done 5 or 6 workouts a week. My Garmin 'training load' score used to hover around 300, today it's on 1139. And I can feel it in my legs a bit, but I feel great. Because I'm fuelling appropriately which means the right amount of carbs during and after workouts, and low carb high veg at other times.
Recovery drink really does work if you train most days.
I’ve upped my efforts mostly
To lose a few lbs but also improve cycling fitness. I’ve dropped off my weight training as I started to get a bit of what I think is tennis elbow.
Doing one weights session a week - barbell clean and presses, deadlifts, squats, press ups. That’s about it.
2 x turbos, 2 x mile swims and 1 mtb ride. 1 complete rest day.
I’ve used my protein impact whey in the past but I’ve just run out. The wife bought some my protein collagen protein then decided to go dairy free 🙄 and is saying I need to use it up before buying any more protein.
Will this do the job just to help recovery (and avoid a sugary / unhealthy snack that I’d otherwise have)? Can I expect lovely soft hair / skin / sparkly eyes too 🤪
The basic science for the protein / carbs mix was a study looking at malnourished elderly. It was also shown to have a slight benefit for hyperendurance athletes like solo pole trekkers and those nutters who do multiple marathons day after day
Unless there are new studies since I looked no benefit was found for amateurs or recreational cyclists
Whey powder is a waste product of industrial food processing. Being able to monetarise it is the aim here
From https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23765352/
Ingestion of approximately 20 g protein during and/or immediately after exercise is sufficient to maximize post-exercise muscle protein synthesis rates
From https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18577771/
Coingestion of relatively small amounts of protein and/or amino acids with carbohydrate can be used to augment postprandial insulin secretion and accelerate muscle glycogen synthesis rates.
From https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21116024/
During postexercise recovery, optimal nutritional intake is important to replenish endogenous substrate stores and to facilitate muscle-damage repair and reconditioning. After exhaustive endurance-type exercise, muscle glycogen repletion forms the most important factor determining the time needed to recover. Postexercise carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion has been well established as the most important determinant of muscle glycogen synthesis. Coingestion of protein and/or amino acids does not seem to further increase muscle glycogensynthesis rates when CHO intake exceeds 1.2 g × kg⁻¹ × hr⁻¹. However, from a practical point of view it is not always feasible to ingest such large amounts of CHO. The combined ingestion of a small amount of protein (0.2-0.4 g × kg⁻¹ × hr⁻¹) with less CHO (0.8 g × kg⁻¹ × hr⁻¹) stimulates endogenous insulin release and results in similar muscle glycogen-repletion rates as the ingestion of 1.2 g × kg⁻¹ × hr⁻¹ CHO.
From my own experience, as I said, it has a major effect on controlling appetite after lots of exercise. This then makes it far easier to control my diet whilst training and still recover. It's very convenient as well - can be mixed instantly, doesn't need any preparation, doesn't go off, and is very easy to control the amounts I know I need.
Before we start, don't go telling me that I'm fooled by marketing, because I'm capable of figuring out things for myself and suggesting I'm not is an insult to my intelligence. Believe it or not I don't want to spend tons of money on expensive energy products, I'd rather spend it on bike stuff. Fortunately I don't have to buy expensive energy products since I buy generic powders for cheap and mix my own, which actually comes out not much more expensive than the food I would otherwise have to eat.
Unless there are new studies since I looked no benefit was found for amateurs or recreational cyclists
I'm an amateur but I'm now training 6 times a week which puts a fair old strain on my amateur body. So whilst I'm not as fast as a pro, I can be as tired as one.
Oh dear Moley - those three articles linked to come from the same college of woowoo and all quote the same studies which are published in woo woo journals. thats just at a quick glance and none of them seem to be any new science just studies of studies
last time we debated this I dug down thru the multilayered articles quoting each other and all the evidence came from the two studies I mention
I have only had a quick glance at it tho for sure
any actual new science?
OP hasn't stated whether it's "just" cycling training, Tri Training, Crossfit or "Riding and Weights" etc etc
The need for protein of someone lifting heavy weights 3-4x a week will be far in excess of someone doing just cycle training.
There is definitely a place for shakes for anyone needed a boost in a high quality complete protein intake in an convenient package, especially if you're really busy, have a quick turnaround between training and taking the kids out or training late at night.
There seems to be a bit of snobbery around protein supplementation on this forum for some reason, maybe some are intimidated by the Gym Bros down the local leisure centre... 😉
Oh dear Moley – those three articles linked to come from the same college of woowoo and all quote the same studies which are published in woo woo journals. thats just at a quick glance and none of them seem to be any new science just studies of studies
last time we debated this I dug down thru the multilayered articles quoting each other and all the evidence came from the two studies I mention
I have only had a quick glance at it tho for sure
any actual new science?
This should keep you busy TJ: https://www.torqfitness.co.uk/torq-recovery-system#section-fillup-1
I've no idea if it makes a difference for muscle growth or fitness improvement or any of that but for sure taking something makes me feel better hours later and the day after than if I don't. And it's definitely worth it just for that minor comfort.
For that inexact science- milk, chocolate milk and science powder seem to perform just the same, but the powder doesn't go off so I use that (after once getting a mouthful of chocolate milk chunks)
I personally think recovery shakes are a positive.
From the long days on the saddle, especially in summer, and drinking responsible amounts of water with electrolytes, I would still late int he evening feel a little groggy, and a bit headachey until i discovered these shakes.
Now after exercise, I make one up and feel fine later in the evening, and certainly no headaches. I use water as i did read that milk lines the stomach and can prevent you from absorbing some of the minerals/vits the shake provides.
I've no idea how accurate that is, but for years it was always the thing before going out boozing at the weekend to drink a pint of milk to line the stomach. So maybe it is.
any actual new science?
I'm not an exercise physiologist, so I don't subscribe to the journals. Neither are you, but there are a few differences here.
1. I listen to people who are exercise physiologists
2. I have a science background
3. I've actually evaluated the concept myself and found it beneficial.
4. I do go through periods of actually training regularly, other than just general pootling about.
I am fairly confident in my ability to evaluate these things because there are stacks of other things that are meant to help, that I've tried and I don't take. So I'm not falling for guff as you seem to suggest.
I'm just reporting my own experiences and pointing out that there is some science here. I dunno why you're on here, except to argue with me. Maybe you want to save people some money, I dunno, but when you buy bulk and mix your own as I suggested it's really not that expensive given that normal food isn't free.
why you’re on here, except to argue
Sums up what I've seen, for sure.
Just to mention, bought some stuff from myprotein.com for my son for xmas and he gave me a code "Matt" - made it nice n cheap. That's all, bye!
he gave me a code “Matt” – made it nice n cheap. That’s all, bye!
nice one, thanks, but this is what im finding. applying that code brought 2 X 5kg bags down from £314 to £180 still. last time i bought some (about a year ago) it would have been less than half that price, about £70 i think. the price just seems to have shot up drastically.
I pay about £35 I think for something like 4kg of homemade.
After yesterday's very cold ride a nice hot Bovril did the trick. Oh and a couple of marzipan buns for some carbs. Yum.
I pay about £35 I think for something like 4kg of homemade.
intrigued, how do you make it at home?