[Closed] Prospective 1st time father at 45...GF and I are both terrified.. any insights?

Yes - sorry, I didn't mean my comment to come off too callously. It's a difficult subject, and there aren't clear cut answers.

Thanks again all. Some really useful insights and debates here. I haven't had time to read through all this, but I will later today.

Reading through the first two pages of comments yesterday, opened my eyes to some of the more profound positives that could come. So I feel more-or-less 50/50 about where we are at.

I thought maybe it would be useful if I share this thread with my GF. Interestingly, the comments she read just seemed to confirm her worst fears, that the lack of money, lack of time, lack of sleep, will become everything in our life. That 'you will somehow cope / adapt' etc, is just not good enough for what she wants out of life. (And perhaps it isn't enough for me either?). She is concerned with actually 'thriving' as a person in life rather than just 'coping'. She's beginning to freak out about the initial subtle bodily changes already taking place - just a few weeks in. Today she seems almost completely convinced that a termination is the right way out of this. It's strange, because she was really the one instigating all this in the first place (albeit perhaps without thinking things through fully).

I will totally respect whichever decision she makes and will stand by her with it.

One of the comments I read yesterday really stood out to me. Someone said 'you are both overthinking this'. It seems that there really are few rational reasons to have a child, and there are a million very, very rational reasons to not have one. So perhaps we are overthinking this? But does any one ever have a child and regret it? Maybe they do?

(On the flip-side, I know that my mother desperately regrets a termination she was - most probably - coerced into by my father many years ago)

I agree also that we both need to seek professional counselling help and I'm looking into this. It seems our situation is really unusual though. Here Down Under, There are plenty of web pages offering support for unplanned pregnancy counselling, pre-abortion counselling, post-abortion counselling, etc. but very few for stable-committed-couple-with-a-planned-pregnancy-that-you-maybe-suddenly-want-to-get-out-of, counselling. I'm not sure I even know who to call or how to start that call on the telephone. "Hello, erm... yes, I'd like some help.."

My guess would be someone who does family therapy or couples counseling would be able to help.   Its less about specific advice and more about guiding you to express your fears, needs and wants

But does any one ever have a child and regret it? Maybe they do?

Had one at 40. Easy to list all the negatives as you can define what you will lose. We were ambivalent but no regrets, having one means we can d most of what we want in our lives as well as as a family. Fee for you OP but as 50 looms my almost 10yo is a definite positive in my life.

Some of them are lying and will say something entirely different when they won’t be judged for it. I’ve got friends who think their lives would have been better with less/no kids but they’ll never say that in front of other parents.

No one really knows, we had 3 and now we've also 2 grandkids.

Years ago the only viable difference I reckon is we'd have had nicer cars (a Bentley rather than a BMW etc) and spent more on holidays. Now, financially, it makes no real difference whatsoever having kids/grandkids, except maybe we've someone to leave it to rather than just spunk it all (and more).

The main thing though we did gain is the past, present and ongoing enjoyment/annoyance/heartache/joy of having our own family.

As my Grandma use to say "this isn't a dress rehearsal, this is your only go" - and at your ages, this is probably your only chance of kids. So if you do decide not to, that's it.

Termination or not must be the woman's decision only as it's her body. She may want to know the mans view or she may not.

If you're a partnership then the father's view is important otherwise it's likely to kill the relationship. Maybe not immediately but somewhere down the road.

Perhaps the OP's partner is looking for a shared parenting commitment from him as her life experience has demonstrated that the mother gets left with the drudgery.

But does any one ever have a child and regret it? Maybe they do?

I think it’s probably a contributing factor in quite a few divorces. I have a friend who only had kids as some sort of tick box exercise and the kids have suffered because of this.

My father openly admitted regretting having kids. He was a shit parent and it does affect you as the child throughout your life. If either of you have serious doubts then perhaps it isn’t for you. Does your girlfriend have any support, even if it’s something similar to what you’re doing on here?

Some of them are lying and will say something entirely different when they won’t be judged for it. I’ve got friends who think their lives would have been better with less/no kids but they’ll never say that in front of other parents.

and

...because the overwhelming socially acceptable standpoint is that having kids is the best thing ever and the only thing that can give your life meaning, most who feel that way will never speak up about it and just suffer in silence, sadly.

I'm not sure on this. It's absolutely not a binary situation, there are things that are better because I have kids, and some things that are worse. But in different ways, you can't really draw a list up and compare on one side the value of eg: laughing hysterically at your kids and the things they do vs the freedom to just drop everything and go for a city break. It's not comparable. On balance I'm glad I have them but there are half a dozen things today that would be easier if I didn't. And I'll freely admit that to anyone.

Termination or not must be the womans decision only as its her body.  She may want to know the mans view or she may not.

I'm also going to disagree on this too. If it's a planned and considered pregnancy then although the woman is going to do the heavy lifting so to speak, then it is a shared responsibility for how it came into existance (even if the man only had a small part in the process, badum-tish) and the decision to end it must also be shared. In the end absolutely the woman has the casting vote, and probably by an order of magnitude, but the man's wishes must be considered. Again, it's rarely black and white, setting aside accidents and other worse instances.

FWIW I'm both pro-choice and pro-life. I absolutely support the right to choose, but I also believe that termination really needs to be counselled and if that is the decision, made carefully and soberly. I'm aware of the dichotomy that the 'choice' to begin a pregnancy leading to this point is often not careful and sober.

+1 to theotherjonv re comparisons being impossible

the overwhelming socially acceptable standpoint is that having kids is the best thing ever and the only thing that can give your life meaning

Or they don't want to say it because it's likely to be a shitty thing for their child to hear/feel.

I get what you're saying, I think people being evangelical about anything is annoying, and parenting is definitely something a lot of people get like that about.

I don't disagree with you on termination jonv.  Just expressed in a different way

I had two, first aged 38 with my partner 33.

I think it's great. No way I'd ever make a different decision. I genuinely don't think I was as happy pre-kids as I am now.

However....

I *think* my partner misses her pre-children life much more than I do (maybe because she's younger??). She liked going out to out and travelling a lot more than me. She's also suffered from body issues (weight gain, downstairs issues etc). Shortly after our 2nd she also got very ill with mastitis which very nearly became sepsis. The 2 week period on hospital was horrendous and our new born went from 50 percentile weight to 2nd percentile. Her employer treated her quite badly and she ended up leaving work under bad terms and she got diagnosed with quite bad post natal depression (to the point of suicide). She started a small business instead which immediately got hit by covid and has cost us a lot of money and has added to her depression/guilt. Her previous tendency to get quite stressed has got a lot worse and she struggles to cope with the kids on her own. Sometimes she just goes out to the car and has a cry. Several times she's just disappeared for many hours with no explanation. After one time, I got a call from the local shop to say she'd had a panic attack in there. She still loves the kids, and even sometimes suggests having another (no way!) but I do wonder if she'd make a different decision if she'd really known what it would be like!

It gets a lot easier as time goes on. However, ours are 3 and 5 and my partner still struggles, especially with the eldest who she just seems to clash with.

I find it quite tricky trying to be the main earner, and also look after the kids whenever my partner can't cope.

So there we go, it's not easy!

She’s beginning to freak out about the initial subtle bodily changes already taking place – just a few weeks in. Today she seems almost completely convinced that a termination is the right way out of this.

Regardless of how caring responsibilities are shared in the longer term, the first 9 months will be with her 100%, and the closer you get to the birth the greater these things will be. Also the next 9 months post birth are going to be 90% on her.

If she isnt fully signed up to this now, then its going to be a extremely difficult 18 months.

From everything you've written, so sound like you're trying to convince yourself that its a good idea, when your underlying emotions are saying otherwise?

I think this subject has more tendancy than almost any other to come down to polemic rather than debate. One side simply cannot see the other's point of view.

Either way I'm sure you'll have a great life, but this choice you both make at this crossroads is going to have a huge impact on what that life looks like.

I think this subject has more tendancy than almost any other to come down to polemic rather than debate. One side simply cannot see the other’s point of view.

Have you missed the ebike, helmet, wheelsize, disc brakes on road bikes, schrader vs presta, changing an inner tube without turning bike upsidedown debates etc? 😉

Today she seems almost completely convinced that a termination is the right way out of this.

I struggle with this - surely giving the eventual child up for adoption is the right thing to do, not take a life away.

My father openly admitted regretting having kids.

My father in law, too, told his daughter that if he'd known you were 'allowed' to not get married and have kids, he probably wouldn't have done. He was born in the 40's. That said, in his later years (once they had grown up!) I know he was glad to have them all in his life.

I would get your partner to read into termination and other women who have experienced it. It can be easy to think about in principle but living with the consequences is something different altogether.

I'm not advocating either way, just that it's a big decision that can't be taken back so it's something that you need to be completely sure of.

So here's my 2 pence worth....

I haven't read all the replies, but i have read the opening post.

Having a child will expose and enlarge any cracks in your relationship. So unless you have a water tight, super solid, soul mate on the same page with 99% of things setup, be prepared for a strain on you and your GF's relationship. On a personal level, i am lucky that me and the missus survived the first 5 years of our daughters life without too much stress or strain, but i know plenty of relationships that have gone to shite since the birth of a child.

I notice you still rent. I cant imagine you being able to afford to buy once a child comes along. They cost a fair chunk of money, one way or another and that never subsides.

Like mentioned before, a fair few blokes are 'take or leave' it, but change their tune when the little blighters turn up. But if both parties are in this boat, personally, i dont think they should be parents.

If you do go through with it, you will lose a lot of free time. Again this boils down to how good your relationship is. If its one where you take turns to do your own thing, so you still get some 'me' time, then all good. But again, i know some blokes who have no hobbies or interests anymore, as they are now 'fathers'. (this can be down to the other halfs mind you and works both ways).

On the more positive side of things, they really can bring some joy to your life. watching them learn and grow, moulding them into good human beings, celebrating their small victories... it is magical. (mine is learning to read, its freaking awesome hearing her piece the words together).

Just be aware, you cant hand them back, pop them in a cupboard or make them disappear. its a 24/7, 365 for many years commitment, that i believe, both parties need to be 100% invested in.

So I feel more-or-less 50/50 about where we are at.

So now you're going to get pages of:
Parents: "Well, if you're 50:50 then of course you should have it."
Non-parents: "Well, if you're 50:50 then of course you shouldn't have it."
As Tom said just there, "One side simply cannot see the other’s point of view."

🤷‍♂️ Ultimately, plenty of people can share their own experiences but no-one can tell you what to do. It's a hugely emotive subject which attracts polar opinions, John up there was talking about having an unwanted child to give away being "surely the right thing to do" whereas I'm thinking that's surely the single most wildly irresponsible thing to do. Neither of us are likely absolutely correct.

One side simply cannot see the other’s point of view.

Most people absolutely can, SOME people can't / won't. The trouble is they tend to be the ones that shout the loudest and keep shouting.

It's a totally personal decision that only the OP and his OH can make. There are pro's and con's either way, only they can weigh them against each other. Even then it won't be a 100:0 choice, if you can get to 66:33 you're probably doing well.

While I can try to put myself in the shoes of someone who really doesn't want children I can't really understand how they could go through with a termination. For me personally (but not necessarily for the OP or anyone else) the "what if" factor would be something I couldn't cope with for the rest of my life.

One of the comments I read yesterday really stood out to me. Someone said ‘you are both overthinking this’. It seems that there really are few rational reasons to have a child, and there are a million very, very rational reasons to not have one. So perhaps we are overthinking this?

That was my comment and you've obviously got exactly what I meant by it. If you sat down and coldly and logically did a pro's and cons list of if you have enough money, if your house is big enough, whether you're at the right stage in your career etc, the human race would have been extinct years ago as nobody would ever have kids. I doubt many people have kids through a process of logical evaluation. Quite the opposite. I can't think of any other decision in life that is more emotive and likely to be decided with your heart rather than your head. Well... maybe buying an Alfa Romeo 😉

While I can try to put myself in the shoes of someone who really doesn’t want children I can’t really understand how they could go through with a termination. For me personally (but not necessarily for the OP or anyone else) the “what if” factor would be something I couldn’t cope with for the rest of my life.

Because, at what point does "a couple of cells" become "a life"? Do we define that biologically, philosophically, religiously, physically, electrically, something else? Does your "what if?" concern plague you every time you have a J Arthur?

Can open, worm-like things everywhere.

I was on a temporary contract when my first was born and was for 5 years after but we got through. Now 5 and 7. Anyway, here is my advice and perspective.

1. Stop being a shitebag and put on your big boy pants.

2. You think your life has purpose and meaning? Wait till you have a child. If you are a real man (I am sure you are, some are not like BIL) and step up to your responsibilities then your life has meaning and purpose.

3. It is really hard and you can't go home or give up.

4. It is really rewarding.

5. What do you need money for? To spend on stuff and things? Might as well spend it on kids.

6. Kids are nothing like pets. Nothing at all. Anyone who tells you that is talking nonsense, because they don't know what it's like. Citation: I've had both.

7. Babies are quite boring and not much fun. It's more fun when they get older.

8.The stuff that seems really important now - holidays, 'adventures' will come to seem like a lifetimes ago childish nonsense.

Stop worrying and get wired in.

Guys - lets not discuss terminations, morals etc on here.  The OP has some tough thinking to do and a debate on termination will surely end acrimoniously and be unhelpful to the OP

I think, with all respect, it's either to be debated or for the OP to say that isn't part of the consideration. Not for you.

I can't put myself in their shoes, we tried long time to get pregnant and had two miscarriages before my daughter, so it was never vaguely an option for us. But ceasing a pregnancy and the implications of that are definitely part of the decision process. Only the OP can decide how to weight that as a factor. It may be unimportant, it may be the thing that swings it one way or the other.

You think your life has purpose and meaning? Wait till you have a child.

This is a terrible and toxic message that I wish people would stop doling out.

Quite the opposite. I can’t think of any other decision in life that is more emotive and likely to be decided with your heart rather than your head. Well… maybe buying an Alfa Romeo 😉

I, very recently, seriously considered buying an Alfa for my 18 year old daughter.
That's a decision that'll make your head explode.

^ Agreed.

From another female perspective the most important thing is to do what is right for you and your partner. You really need to talk through your feelings and the practical side of how you would share childcare. Also what would happen to your partners body both with having the child or having a termination and the emotional impacts of both.
There is no right or wrong answer as long as its the one you both want.
From my point of view I've never been interested in having children and thankfully neither has my husband but the societal pressure has always been there "you'll change your mind", "you'll regret it when your older" or my personal favourite "who'll look after you in your old age" I'm now pretty much too old to have children and have no regrets but that is me, your decision is entirely between the two of you.

I, very recently, seriously considered buying an Alfa for my 18 year old daughter.

Some days I dislike my kids too.

We had our girls when i was 34 and 38, i delayed a few times as never felt i was ready..

Then when we had our daughters I was really hung up on being a 'old Dad' but as soon as the oldest started school i realised i was mid-table, and still mid-table 4 years later when the youngest one started.
There were a few guys in the very late 40s/early 50s with a child in reception - so i really don't think you're too old.

No body is ready to be a parent - no matter how many books they've read, or how much they feel it is their destiny.
I remember walking out of hospital with out first one in a baby carrier thinking - "what do i do now? i know nothing about this" but it soon falls into place.
If you're committed and you care, you're already a better parent than many others.

As for financial implications - yes, kids are expensive and it doesn't get any easier as they get older, but i enjoy giving them a good standard of living, and experiences i didn't get as a child.
However, its worth remembering that status and privilege mean more to the parents than to the kids - All kids really want is to feel safe and loved.

I can't tell you what decision to make, but i can say the feelings you're having are totally natural...

Personally I’m very glad I did it, and I’m very proud to see how my daughters have turned out, but equally I can imagine not having kids, and being a happy childless (and a lot richer!) person right now.

I can 100% identify with this.

This is a terrible and toxic message that I wish people would stop doling out.

.
Aargghh.
I keep opening this thread as a distraction from work and replying to bits I think are worth replying to.
Then thinking it's nothing to do with me and just keep out if it.
Then 3 hours later I open it again, and reply.

Then think better of it.

Well… maybe buying an Alfa Romeo 😉

I was mad enough to have two sons. I drew the line at an Alfa GT! The four of us did have a great day visiting the Alfa museum outside Milan, however.

I too would subscribe to the "overthinking it" notion. As I said, you just get on with it, do your best and deal with the hand you are dealt. You will however, never stop worrying about them. I enjoy ours and, as adults, they seem to still like me. They are all different and frustrating in many ways.

The fact that you posted, means that I personally think you're both well qualified and thoughtful of the challenges already. As a rule, books on parenting are generally read by the audience least needing of the advice they contain. Good luck!

The fact that you posted, means that I personally think you’re both well qualified and thoughtful of the challenges already.

This ever so very much

Late to this post, probably nothing to add that hasn't already been said... but I will anyway.

OP: The fact that your post was so open, thoughtful and (brutally) honest, means in my mind you'll be absolutely fine, and more than likely will thrive. Most people are scared sh1t-less when they find out they're expecting the first, and rightly so. It's hard work, scary and bloody thankless at times, especially in the first 6 months. But the rewards and the good times are inexplicably good. I've now got two little best-mates (8 and 4) and would not change it for the world

I have to say though it's not all been a bed of roses. When we were expecting our first I was really excited and felt ready, but after the birth it took about 3 months to truly bond with him. I was very confused and pretty upset as to why I naturally didn't love him at first sight, in fact I felt quite the opposite. Looking back I think I was angry at how much he had physically hurt my wife and was holding that against him - completely irrational, I know! What really got me down was that my experience seemed to be the complete opposite to most expectant first-time dads; they seemed to be terrified before the birth but then 'get it' the second they hold the baby in their arms. However… it came…eventually and since then it’s been amazing. (Interestingly I had no such issues with #2 child.)

This info is probably of no use, but thought I’d add another angle to the “what if I don’t love ‘it’?” thoughts.

Lastly, and as others have said only you and your missus can decide what’s best. It will change your life, and I’m >99% certain for the better.

I thought maybe it would be useful if I share this thread with my GF. Interestingly, the comments she read just seemed to confirm her worst fears, that the lack of money, lack of time, lack of sleep, will become everything in our life.

I wouldn't change anything in my life (two girls, now 8 & 10) but you will be worse off in terms of time, money and sleep. It's unavoidable. You adapt to less sleep and time, but for money I guess depends on how much you had to start with. Perhaps running a cheapish car and going camping for your holiday doesn't seem like much of a compromise, but if you're struggling to get by now it may be a different matter.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

p.s. You see lots of posts from fathers saying it took a while to bond with their child. Some of us however felt it from the very beginning.

Just my twopennorth, lots of (older) parents over plan, over think etc but really itll never pan out how you plan for it, it is a leap of faith, you will most likely be fine but there are risks, be aware of them but dont attempt to strategise your way around them or ypur head will be a mess. You need to roll with it and especially looking after your partner in the first 6-12 months and, like all parenting advice, this will likely be bollocks because it's always different for everyone

There is no right choice just be 100% honest and supportive of each other wherever that goes. Good luck with whatever path you choose,

51 year old, childfree by choice, woman here. OP I haven't read the whole thread but interestingly enough I did read TJ's first post and could have written that myself. I have always felt that having children is one of the most important/ significant things that you will ever do in life and as such you are right to be giving it all of the thought. I certainly wouldn't suggest you are overthinking it.

What you have done is come here and ask a question that lots of people are too afraid to ask and you are getting a full range of really honest, real world experiences, which is after all, STW at its best. Be kind to yourselves and as people have said, there's no right or wrong to this, whatever you decide to do.

By coincidence, a younger colleague has got his first sprog due today. Those of us who are a bit older and been down this road, are all s****ing to ourselves at how naive and completely unprepared he is for whats about to happen to him. We're laughing because we were all equally as unprepared and can absolutely identify with it

He's calmly talking about all these plans he's got for whats apparently going to happen during his paternity leave.

It's hilarious. He literally has not got the first clue whats about to hit him! 🤣

@binners - Couple next door were exactly the same. No-one knows what's coming, for good and bad, no matter how much they think they do.

What a great thread!

I don't envy you though, tough situation to be in.

There is absolutley nothing wrong with not wanting children. As grum said - You do you!

BUT do you think the situation you're in is one of self doubt (both of you) as opposed to really not wanting children?

Everyone has posted their experiences, and circumstances...I have two, 12 and 6 (second one took a bit longer than we expected! But it was fun trying)

It's hard, but would absolutley not change it. Best thing I've ever done.

All the stuff about being tired, skint, loss of time for personal hobbies, that all gets better - it's the early years that are hardest.

Well, yes you'll still be skint. So what! We only live once (probably), the thought of not having kids and ALL of the experiences, lessons, stresses, general carnage and LOVE that goes with it so you can have a bit more money and buy material things!?

When Thump was 18 months old a lass at work confessed in the coffee room that she and her husband was thinking of adopting but everyone was saying don't do it.

I said that it had taken me 2 hours to get me and Thump ready that morning - but we'd laughed and chatted and giggled through the process. Yes it was time-consuming and hard work but I'd also laughed out loud several times. I asked if she'd laughed while getting ready that morning?

Yes, kids are time-consuming and hard work but they can be fantastically good fun and rewarding.

Anyway: When Thump was born, midwife suggested to Mrs SC and I that we bathe him. We had absolutely no idea what to do. Midwife said - if you don't drown it, then the bath has been a success.
I've taken that attitude into parenting....