[Closed] Proper wear a helmet thread

Good title, I thought it was the other one.

can't see your pic tho.

Ouch!

What did his face collide with?
Who's the other guy in the hospital?

He face planted the floor and subsequently knocked out i believe

The other chappy is his mate who came out a lot better

Oh no... 'he' will be along in a mo.

good to see he was dressed for going out!

LOVE the pineapple shirt!

As devils advocate the helmet looks as though nothing has impacted it. If it hasn't been hit it hasn't done any good.

Should have been wearing a full-facer.

Look at the helmet again. Bottom left.

Oof! Glad they're ok.

What happened?

A peaked helmet on a road bike 😯

Glad everyone is ok ish.

The helmet has cracked on the botom left of image clean through!

So the helmet failed and the rider got injured. To get the cut where he did the helmet must have moved. Straps too loose?

Anecdote is not evidence

Surely the force that the helmet dissipated causing the damage would have had to been dissipated elsewhere if it hadn't been there?

Maybe wearing a helmet encouraged him to risk going faster on a dangerous corner than he otherwise would have. Just saying .... things are not necessarily as straightforward as they seem.

Maybe wearing a helmet encouraged him to risk going faster on a dangerous corner than he otherwise would have. Just saying

......... and maybe the sun being out encouraged him to go out in the 1st place............ and maybe being with his mates made him more gung-ho?

I think the discussion is about whether a similar crash [same speed etc.] would have had the same or a better outcome sans lid

Here we go again.......

OP, glad your mates are OK. Looks like a nasty crash!

He face planted the floor and subsequently knocked out i believe

So the helmet didn't prevent the head injury then?

Glad to hear he's Ok.

Is it possible to tighten helmet straps enough so it won't move?

If the helmet wasn't there.

The force that cracked the helmet would have been direct onto his skull.

Anyone who can't (or refuses to) understand that, must have head injuries themselves 🙄

Is it possible to tighten helmet straps enough so it won't move?

Anything can be moved if sufficient force is applied, except peoples opinions of course 😉

cynic-al - Member

Is it possible to tighten helmet straps enough so it won't move?

Its one of the factors. A helmet that moves on impact does less to help. Having the straps done up and adjusted properly helps retain the helmet. Its a shame that only some riders actually do this. I look around and most riders wearing helmets do not have the straps done up properly or the helmet is ill fitting in other ways.

@ hilldodger 😛

I guess that means they must be right...

I agree TJ but I think it's impossible to guarantee the helmet won't move in a crash.

I look around and most riders wearing helmets do not have the straps done up properly or the helmet is ill fitting in other ways.

The workings of your mind as you're out and about are truly a marvel,
if only you could write about everything you see and attempt to portray yourself as a learned expert on everything, if only ........

If the helmet wasn't there. The force that cracked the helmet would have been direct onto his skull.

So he got knocked out (concussion) and got a nasty cut on part of the head the helmet should have covered? Doesn't seem like the helmet being there was much good.

I think the protection helmets give is over-rated. At the end of the day it is just a thin layer of polystyrene. As this crash proves they do not always prevent head injuries even in the bike only crashes they are supposed to work in. All else being equal I'd wear a helmet if I thought I had a serious risk of crashing but I don't.

If anyone chooses to wear them that is their choice but having been riding for over 30 years without a head injury or serious crash the option of riding within your limits and avoiding crashes is equally valid.

We don't know anything about what caused this crash but I'm guessing there are factor involved which made it an avoidable accident because almost all accidents are avoidable.

if only you could write about everything you see and attempt to portray yourself as a learned expert on everything, if only ........

.......all this knowledge and wisdom could be put to some constructive use, so many global problems could be resolved at the stroke of a key 😉

Nah, far better just to witter on a relatively obscure bike forum instead. 🙂

And just where do I "attempt to portray yourself as a learned expert on everything" NO more so that those who mock

Really - questioning the orthodoxy on here gets funny reactions and everything I say on helmets can be backed up with good data.

TRL for this one for example along with snell

I look around and most riders wearing helmets do not have the straps done up properly or the helmet is ill fitting in other ways.

Anecdote is not evidence.

And just where do I "attempt to portray yourself as a learned expert on everything"

I said "if only"

It was just idle ramblings about what a perfect world be like, that's all

If anyone chooses to wear them that is their choice but having been riding for over 30 years without a head injury or serious crash the option of riding within your limits and avoiding crashes is equally valid.

Crashes can be avoided by staying indoors. Many of up want to have fun while riding, pushing ourselves etc.

Even if all a helmet does is avoid a number of stitches I'm happy to wear one.

Chapa I don't think TJ is saying it is evidence.

Hahahaha!

Those who want to wear a helmet should wear one, those who don't should not 😉

For me I go through quite a lot of helmets, full face, jump, XC and quite a few other lids, some of my fullface helmets have been left unusuable and if I'm honest without the helmets or armour the crashed would have stood a good chance of cripling or killing me!

Anyone saying that helmets are unnecessary, what kind of riding do you do? that you don't feel like you need a helmet, if it's just pootling along or road riding then cool, but I would never ride on the road without my helmet, I might be a competent rider but I have my doubts about the competence of a great many drivers.

That said no point owning handbags if you don't use them.

So swing away!

Were they wearing those clothes to ride in? 🙂

So he got knocked out (concussion) and got a nasty cut on part of the head the helmet should have covered? Doesn't seem like the helmet being there was much good

Ok.

So as I said before.

The impact snapped the helmet clean through, [b]and[/b] concussed the rider.

So if the helmet wasn't there, none of the force would have been absorbed in snapping the helmet.

[b]All[/b] of the force would have been directly onto the riders skull. Causing far worse injuries.

.
Pick one :

A- He was better off wearing a helmet.

B- He would have been less hurt without one.

C - no one knows as its far more complex than your simplistic analysis.

His head would / could have hit at different angle / place / level of force or not at all as the helmet increase the size of the head significantly

Plus a whole load of other factors that you simply will not want to consider.

Doesn't look like a glancing blow to me.

I'd go as far as saying any impact that can break a helmet will move it, no matter how tight the straps are (as long as they're not stranglign the rider!)

Really - questioning the orthodoxy on here gets funny reactions and everything I say on helmets can be backed up with good data.

C - no one knows as its far more complex than your simplistic analysis.

His head would / could have hit at different angle / place / level of force or not at all as the helmet increase the size of the head significantly

Plus a whole load of other factors that you simply will not want to consider.

Mods can you somehow ban him form any helmet thread?

All too often these days we come across individuals who can justify any action or perspective on an issue or situation.

The internet has loads of research material and if someone was interested they could more likely than not provide proof of any situation or fact they wished to advocate.

The relative truth is simply that which is most appealing to the individuals chosen view point or perspective.

There are a great many factors in the helmet debate, however the most relevant one in my retarded opinion is that, a helmet is easily replaceable, the human head is not!

Junkyard

it can aso be countered with equally good evidence

go on then.

wearing a helmet increases the size and weight of the head significantly. Of course it has the potential to alter the dynamics of the impact with the ground.

it is still vastly superior to your made up account of what might have happened

it is nto simplistic TJ it either absorbed some of the force of the impact or it did not absorb some of the force of the impact.

go on then

what made up account? where have I said what would happen

His head would / could have hit at different angle / place / level of force or not at all as the helmet increase the size of the head significantly

Not answering you after this post on this thread
You would do well to just step away from helmet threads your view is known.

His head would /[b] could[/b] have hit at different angle / place / level of force or not at all as the helmet increase the size of the head significantly

IE without a helmet thus with a smaller lighter head the dynamics off the impact with the ground would / could have been different. In what way is impossible to determine. This is indisputable.

so the simplistic yes / no black / white analysis is ill suited to explaining what happened

Helmet: 300gm, head: around 5 kilos, that's ao additional 6%?

EDIT of course "could" works but it's a bit meaningless and academic, whether "would" fits and whether any difference would have been significant, matters.

TJ I haven't been involved in any of the helmet threads, can you tell me if you think that helmets are a bad idea because they don't work?

Or what exactly your stand point on helmets is?

Kaesae - there are two separate points

1) helmets are much less effective especially against major impact than many folk believe [i]edit[/i] and indeed in some circumstances can make injuries worse
2) cycling is a low risk activity and for much cycling the risk of s serious head injury preventable by a helmet is very very low indeed so for a gentle pootle why wear one?

Some good discussion and links to debate and data here
http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=4688

Want to know more email me.

Plus a whole load of other factors that you simply will not want to consider.

So because I have a different opinion to you, your default position is that I am blinkered 🙄

.
Here's something that you may not want to consider .....

I have actually looked at the "whole load of other factors"

I have considered them.

And I have a different opinion to yours 😯

.
I know you like to imagine a world where your opinion is the only valid one.

But that isn't the case I'm afraid.

TJ - If you knew before going out for a bike ride today that you were going to be unfortuneate enough to come off your bike today and the only thing you knew that was you were going to hit your head hard enough to end up in A+E, whether you were wearing a helmet or not - you don't know how bad the injury would be, what you hit, how fast and at what angle you hit it or whether wearing a helmet would have made injury less or more serious. Given the choice now, before it happens, would you wear your helmet today?

Genuine question - interested in a simple yes or no answer please.

I hope you don't come off your bike obviously.

interested in a simple yes or no answer please.

Are you new here

Peace people!

Everyones opinion is valid it's called having a well rounded perspective on an issue.

This simply comes down to personal choice, no need to get agro or nasty, let's all just try to except that opinions will vary and that's it's not about being right, just learning what we can and to get on and understand that we are all different!

Much of what TJ is saying seems sensible enough, cycling is a low risk activity, mountain biking is a reasonably extreme sport however so a helmet is probably a good idea.

Mods kill this now before it all gets out of hand and dummys are being spat.

Hicksey - I wear a helmet when the risk of crashing is high and when the consequences might be serious so I wear on for trail centres and similar riding

a gentle bimble on an old railway line I won't

Thanks for the answer TJ. So, the answer to my question would be yes presumabley.

The only thing I'd say is that everytime I'm come off my bike I haven't known it was going to happen. Sometimes it's been when I've been riding fast or on tricky stuff, sometimes while just bimbling along. I broke my arm bimbling along a bridleway once - low speed and just bad luck, but it happened.

I'm off for a bike ride now - stay safe all.

so for a gentle pootle why wear one

It's called choice. Google it. There's lots of data on it.

This got big shittered quickly....

This is a proper wear a helmet thread.

It's got everything I would have expected.

8/10

well done everybody.

It's like watching rats trapped in a maze with no exit.

Hicksy - can I ask you a question?

If you knew before going out for a walk today that you were going to be unfortunate enough to have a workman on some scaffolding drop something on your head and the only thing you knew was that it was going to hit your head hard enough to end up in A+E, whether you were wearing a helmet or not - you don't know how bad the injury would be, what hit you, how fast and at what angle it hit you or whether wearing a helmet would have made injury less or more serious. Given the choice now, before it happens, would you wear your helmet today?

Genuine question - interested in a simple yes or no answer please.

most of this thread reads as;

lalalalalalala I'm not listening, I'm right, I'm right, I'm right, lalalalalalala I'm not listening

glad your buddy is ok.

How about if you were going down the Pub ended up drinking 8-10 pints by mistake and upon stumbling home you slipped up and landed on your head . Would you of worn a helmet to the Pub if you knew this was going to happen?

So TJ says in his last post that a helmet is effective. It's just that his risk assesment has different parameters to other peoples 😉

Look like he spilled the bottle of ketchup he was carrying.

TandemJeremy - Member

Anecdote is not evidence

Yes it is.

I love helmet threads me! Best one I heard was a guy at GT without a lid heshing down the red, at a stop I says to him, '**** me your'e a brave lad fying down there with bo lid' & he said, 'well everytime I come here I fall off & bust my helmet, I've broken 3, so I don't bother anymore'
I've broken 2 in crashes & there's no shadow of doubt in my mind that I'd have had a much sorer head on both occasions If I hadn't been wearing them.
I never wore one when I was riding trials years ago until they became compulsory.

TandemJeremy - Member

1) helmets are much less effective especially against major impact than many folk believe and indeed in some circumstances can make injuries worse

2) cycling is a low risk activity and for much cycling the risk of s serious head injury preventable by a helmet is very very low indeed.

Druidh - Yes 😀

Drat, I thought I may get caught in my own trap!

What I was trying to find out from TJ was whether he thought he would be better off wearing a helmet in a crash where he hit his head and therefore if he deemed a helmet worth wearing. I realise that we can't keep safe all the time, but in activity where I hurt myself more than in any other area of my life (I'm obviously not much good!) it seems sensible for me to wear a helmet when on my bike. I can't see a practical reason not to.

I, like TJ, would try and assess any risks and wear what I felt was required.

Anyhow, managed to stay on my bike today - even though I was being a bit rad 😀

*Waits for the above post to be edited and quoted back to me but in a walking down the street situation*

I have to say I can't see how the helmet could not have helped in this instance. Rider connected with ground, straightforward impact.

Also, in my worst crash (OTB on the road) I head-butted the tarmac, breaking the helmet, but also getting 4 cuts to the face and forehead. The straps were reasonably tight. I don't see how the helmet was at fault or could have prevented the cuts.

TJ It looks to me like you are trying to find fault with helmets rather than be objective. No one is saying they are perfect.

Never wore a helmet as a child and survived ,however as a adult and having seen numerous smashed helmets both on threads like this,the internet and whilst working in bike shops I personally would not take the risk.

The cost and minimal weight penalisation is outweighed in my opinion by the extra protection added.
If head protection is as potentially pointless as made out on here someone better tell all the tradesmen on building sites there wasting their time.
All IMO.

I think the discussion is about whether a similar crash [same speed etc.] would have had the same or a better outcome sans lid

Really? There was me thinking it was about whether wearing a helmet is a good idea.

If head protection is as potentially pointless as made out on here someone better tell all the tradesmen on building sites there wasting their time.

But I don't cycle underneath builders working with bricks and metal tools which might get dropped on my head.