[Closed] Private sale advice - disgruntled buyer

You are not a mechanic, he had opportunity to inspect the bike, his problem.

You probably overstated what you thought/were told was wrong, making it sound like a diagnosis rather than a though. However sold as seen.

It was a 1970's bike.
He couldnt even try SOGA.

If you described it as fantastic mechanical condition/just restored. He might have some sort of point..

His mechanic may also be pitching him for work/buyer may also be looking for a discount to settle.

Tbh though he bought a bike off someone who only had it a shortwhile/with described faults. So how have you been out of order etc?

He lost the benefit of any ebay protection by going outside ebay.
What is he asking for a full refund or partial?

Write to him explaining the situation, as above he bought it "as seen". Don't make any sort of admission. If you feel bad about it, offer him a small refund, otherwise keep your nerve and ignore the letters. His problem, not yours.

My sister once bought a VW beetle then sold it on and a week later the engine fell out of the floorpan. The buyer was the wife of a Police DI and she pursued my sister for a few weeks before giving up. My sister ignored her.

One reply- sold as seen with an honest description and no guarantees. Ignore and dont reply further.

Fit for purpose is sales of goods act as far as I know - which applies to products bought from retailers and dealers but not private sale. I would expect the usual rules for a private sale of a car to apply - no comeback unless you've misdescribed. If you said "100% good working order except for X and Y which are faults P and Q" then there shouldn't be any comeback at all.

I suspect matey hasn't had any proper legal advice. Any lawyer would point out that he'd be very likely to spend more than the bike is worth on legal fees, with an uncertain outcome.

He's asking me to cover the cost of the work so far which he says is £350 or he'll take me to court for the full cost of bike plus legal fees etc. I sold him the bike for just £1100.

He spent a good 30 mins looking over the bike, started it up with no problem etc. i explained i wasn't an expert to him. The guy i bought it from said it had been fully rebuilt and pointed out the issues which i pointed out to my buyer. I never got chance to ride it properly to discover the issues he is now stating it has.

[i]The buyer says he has taken some legal advice[/i]

I'd look for a forum like stw where a disgruntled bike buyer has overstated his case to get the response he wants.

It'll be the extent of the legal advice he's likely to have had.

How did you describe the bike ?

Right grow a set of balls. Be firm on principle. I always go by principle not being bullied/feeling stressed/make someone go away.

Its a private sale. If in the ad you had advertised the bike as fully restored, 40yrs old with marticulous detail gone into the prep and upkeep and runs beautifully with no none-issues. Subsequently the seller finds it has problems that would have been obvious/already present then they could feasibly print the ad, take you to court saying you sold the item knowing it had problems but sold as perfect condition. i.e [b]you knowingly sold a faulty item and misrepresented it[/b]. This is the only time that a private sale can have comeback via smalls claims.

However he bought an old bike with a description and at sale of problems but as your a mechanic you can't detail/identify. He knowingly entered into a contract with you knowing there was a problem that needed full diagnosis.

As a private seller you can't offer a warranty unless you email or put something in writing along the lines of 'if you find anything wrong with the bike I wont leave you hanging/I'll help out'. Even then would it stand?

Do you have a moral obligation? NO. You don't as you have not mislead him.

A few years ago I bought a mint/fully main dealered Subaru Legacy from a Policeman. On the morning of the sale he even took it down to his main dealer to get it checked over (off his own back/I didn't ask him to)- they replaced the front pads. Anyway, a week after purchase the air/fuel sensor went and it cost me £450 for the part plus vat and fitting.

That was nothing to do with the seller. He'd described the car and it was as described. The faulty sensor could have been worn before- but who the hell would have known until the EML finally popped up?

Back to you- the buyer has had the opportunity to inspect the bike. Send one communication- repeat hes had (time) to inspect, as discussed faults were pointed out and he accepted the bike on condition. Neither of you had a crystal ball and sign off with you will robustly defend against any claims and there will be no further communication. Thats it- anything further will add fuel to his optimism or his bully/threats.

If he does send any threats- implied. Reply those will be recorded/saved.

The buyer says he has taken some legal advice

Any legal advice would be 'what condition was it described in'?

I said when i bought it, why i was selling it. Then said it starts and runs fine, and listed the things that had been added to it by the builder of it including a rebuild. (I have the ad from the builder). I mentioned that the brakes, lights and horn worked and it had an mot and tax. Then i listed the faults i was aware of - speedo not working and ticking noise which i said i thought was the cam chain.

That was about it

Can you print/save the ad of the original seller (incase its deleted due to housekeeping by site provider or himself etc). Same with your ebay ad and print the buyers emails.

Presumably you gave a sales receipt which also included: "Sold as seen and tested"?

Presumably you gave a sales receipt which also included: "Sold as seen and tested"?

Flip that around- presumably the buyer got a written assurance or proof that the bike had no known faults?

Can you print/save the ad of the original seller (incase its deleted due to housekeeping by site provider or himself etc). Same with your ebay ad and print the buyers emails.

Yes i have the ad from the builder.

Presumably you gave a sales receipt which also included: "Sold as seen and tested"?

No didn't bother with a receipt.

Can you link to the Ebay listings so you can get some proper internet legal advice?
First impressions, though, are to tell him to do one.

No didn't bother with a receipt.

Report it stolen?

I'd have one last communication with him, along the lines of 'sorry, but you inspected the bike and then bought it - please don't bother or threaten me again'.

If you are feeling bad and can afford it, then offer to refund him the original purchase price and get the bike back.

If you are feeling bad and can afford it, then offer to refund him the original purchase price and get the bike back.

but then if he says no/want a contribution the seller is in a awkward position that the buyer keeps that offer and uses it later saying seller felt bad/said he'd take it back but I'd [b]already started* the work on the bike[/b].

It also leaves the seller open to the buyer feeling hes got some leverage.

*he/we don't know if this is true but for the mechanic to say head warped hes obviously stripped the engine.

I had the same kind of situation a few years back, bought an old Honda Prelude for a few hundred quid from a local garage. I knew the owner of the garage who told me he didn't know what was up with the car, it would start but would die pretty soon after and wasn't running properly. Regardless I bought it to fix up but after a few weeks money got tight so I had to move it on.
I advertised it as it was, needed work, a guy came to have a look and was there whilst we spent almost an hour trying to get it to start. Eventually we got it running, he took it for a quick spin and said he'd take it, gave me the money and drove off.
About half an hour later I spotted it broke down outside a nearby petrol station after which the buyer rang me to say he wasn't happy with the car and wanted his money back, I basically told him he knew of the problems, had been there when we couldn't start it and had bought it regardless so had accepted the inevitable.

My point is, you told him there was a fault but you couldn't guarantee what it was, he tested it knowing this and went ahead with the purchase and therefore it is his responsibility. Be firm as legally he hasn't got a leg to stand on and you were quite clearly in the right.

**** 'em

If you are feeling bad and can afford it, then offer to refund him the original purchase price and get the bike back.

I definitely can't afford it and wouldn't buy it back on principle. I didn't mislead. I had no idea that it leaked oil and certainly had no idea that it had a problem beyond a rattly cam chain.

Seen a fair few of these scams.

Buy car or motorbike off private seller through auction site. Contact seller a short time after sale informing them that "my mate the mechanic reckons this needs £xxx, I want you to pay or I'll sue"

Politely remind the buyer they had the chance to inspect it, it was sold as seen with no warranty, implied or otherwise and there's nothing you can do to help.

Then just ignore
(Unless he really is daft enough to try court...)

I had no idea that it leaked oil

[img] [/img]

(Moose and fat person optional)

Also he was keen to tell me that he was a drag bike racer and builds his own bikes so he was hardly a novice to mechanics. His van was all kitted out with bike related kit etc. Hardly a clueless youngster buying his first bike.

No oil leaked from it at all in my ownership, not a drop. He stated it leaked when he rode it.

If the buyer really did take legal advice he ought to sue the lawyer because any proper lawyer would have advised him: "forget it buddy".

He's employing the same tactics as Wonga and those private parking invoice people - trying to frighten you into paying out.

Perhaps your only mistake was in not getting him to sign a bill of sale with the words "sold as seen" on it.

Sold as seen.
you advertised it as.. bah blah blah
Sold as seen
blah blah blah
Sold as seen

All there is to it.

**** 'em

IANAL, but this seems like good advice.

If a bit wrapped up in fancy legalese.

Politely tell him that it's not your problem and leave it at that.

The sale of goods act only applies to a private sale in relation to description the item you sell must match the description you apply to it . that is a term of the contract . so as long as your description both in the add and verbally when selling is accurate then you are OK. You are not OK if you have innocently adopted a misdiscription from your original seller.

A 30-odd year old motorbike leaks oil? There's a surprise.

If he paid a low price and only has to spend £350 to know it's tickety boo, then he's not gettign a bad deal is he?

But do whatever you think is the right thing to do, as long as you can keep a clear conscience.

they bought it so there problem

A 30-odd year old motorbike leaks oil? There's a surprise.

If he paid a low price and only has to spend £350 to know it's tickety boo, then he's not gettign a bad deal is he?

But do whatever you think is the right thing to do, as long as you can keep a clear conscience.

The first part is juxtaposition with your last line. Make your mind up!

The first part is juxtaposition with your last line.

Please expand.

❓

'as long as you keep a clear conscience' implies that the OP needs to do the right thing (cough up).

Nah, if I'm implying anything it's that the OP needs to look at his conscience and at what he told the buyer.

If it's all really as he's presented it here then I don't see he needs to do anything. Unless he wants to of course.

Anyone who's ever been to a car auction, or any auction knows it's bought as seen, and if it's described as accurately as known by the seller, then there's no real comeback.

As others state, sounds like the guy is chancing his luck to see if he can get the bike and a discount with the use of empty threats, as for costs plus legal, that's a magistrate who would decide, and if the guys already got a mate to fix it, then it makes it harder to prove, both the issue and the actual costs.

Sold as seen, and you've only got his word that the faults he's claiming actually exist. Don't offer him anything.

He says he's had legal advice, refer him to Arkell v Pressdram

😆 the perfect citation there

Well, I've just replied stating the bike was sold as seen and that I described it to the best of my knowledge and was unaware of any of the claimed faults, other than those I was aware of and pointed out in my ad. And ended it stating that I wouldn't be engaging in any further correspondence with him.

I have the two ads - one from the builder of the bike and the one from the guy who sold it to me a few weeks ago. I described the bike honestly and described the faults I was aware of.

In the ad I stated it started and ran fine - it did for me and when he looked at it
I stated the gearbox worked fine - it did for me and he put it into gear when he looked at it.
I stated the speedo didn't work - he looked at it and said he believed it was the cable not having enough slack.
I stated the ticking noise and that I thought it might be the cam chain - he heard that noise when he viewed the bike but seemed unconcerned.

I stated the lights and horn worked - they do
I stated it had an MOT and TAX - it does
I stated that the builder of the bike added new levers and rear sets and re-painted it and rebuilt the engine. I have the two ads which both state this.
I explained that I wasn't an expert and had only ridden the bike for a few minutes in the few weeks I'd owned it.

I don't know what else he could expect from me.

Arkell v Pressdram

Arkell v Pressdram

Tempting but I didn't quite go for that approach.

If it was bought outside of eBay what bearing does the original ad have on this sale? Regardless of wether it was or not, how can he claim your ad was misleading when he chose to go outside of the eBay framework?

He's a ****ing chancer, ignore all correspondance.

TonyD if it goes legal it can be seen as an advert for the item.